CDZ The US is a terrorist state. Discuss

[Mindful]

Unexpected is the key element.

One never knows when the strike will happen.

Just like droning.

So; your point?

 

[fncceo]

Terrorism, a term with which I frankly disavow, is asymmetric warfare that deliberately targets civilians.

Terrorism isn't essentially a deterrent to being attacked. It's what you do when you have no deterrent capability.The concept is that if people feel unsafe in their safe space, they will pressure their government to capitulate.

In order for terrorism to be effective, it has to be so shocking and so unexpected that people are afraid to go about their daily business.

If you live in the middle of a war zone, terrorism loses its impact. If you know there is a good chance you're going to get bombed going to the 7-11 or sitting home watching Netflix, you become immured to it. There is no point in being a terrorist when people already have a legitimate chance of being attacked.

When a country like the US mistakenly bombs a civilian gathering, it's tragic, and fuel for some really devastating politically-based outrage, but it's not terrorism.

Unexpected is the key element.

One never knows when the strike will happen.

If you're in a house in Iran or Iraq (or Syria or Lebanon, or any one of dozens of raging conflicts around the world) where war has been raging for more than a decade, it personally might be totally unexpected for a bomb to fall into your living room, but your neighbors will say, 'Bombs are dropping everywhere, thank Allah it wasn't our house'. The population at large won't be terrorized because bombs falling is a common occurrence where they live.

 

[cnm]

So; your point?

Droning is like a truck attack.

 

[emilynghiem]

the key difference is mutual agreement to follow "due process" and set "rules of engagement."

I think you are confusing the issues of "terrorism" vs. the issues with "collective punishment"

No. See the definition I provided in the OP.

Dear cnm
1. your definition doesn't distinguish between
A. using bullying tactics strategically to compel a person or group that uses the same bullying tactics
B. abusing such tactics to "collectively punish" a broader group including innocent civilians

Can you distinguish the difference between A and B so we pinpoint what we are comparing here?

2. again this is why I would more specifically address
COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT

since this streamlines the issue to address causing collateral damage
and threats of harm to CIVILIANS who are not the intended target.

Normally DUE PROCESS is used to isolate the targeted people responsible.

If you define terrorism so broadly where you don't make this distinction,
this isn't going to be as effective. It will just distort arguments where it's difficult to make the same points.

 

[cnm]

If you're in a house in Iran or Iraq (or Syria or Lebanon, or any one of dozens of raging conflicts around the world) where war has been raging for more than a decade, it personally might be totally unexpected for a bomb to fall into your living room, but your neighbors will say, 'Bombs are dropping everywhere, thank Allah it wasn't our house'. The population at large won't be terrorized because bombs falling is a common occurrence where they live.

Oh. Thank you. It's good to know Palestinians can't commit terrorism in Israel. So the blockades can end, right?

 

[Mindful]

So; your point?

Droning is like a truck attack.

No it isn't.

 

[cnm]

1. your definition doesn't distinguish between
A. using bullying tactics strategically to compel a person or group that uses the same bullying tactics
B. abusing such tactics to "collectively punish" a broader group including innocent civilians

Collective punishment is seen nowhere in the definition provided. Feel free to provide an independent definition of terrorism that includes 'collective punishment'.

 

[Mindful]

If you're in a house in Iran or Iraq (or Syria or Lebanon, or any one of dozens of raging conflicts around the world) where war has been raging for more than a decade, it personally might be totally unexpected for a bomb to fall into your living room, but your neighbors will say, 'Bombs are dropping everywhere, thank Allah it wasn't our house'. The population at large won't be terrorized because bombs falling is a common occurrence where they live.

Oh. Thank you. It's good to know Palestinians can't commit terrorism in Israel. So the blockades can end, right?

They used to.

Blowing up buses was an almost daily occurance.

Donkey bombs were also employed.

 

[Mindful]

1. your definition doesn't distinguish between
A. using bullying tactics strategically to compel a person or group that uses the same bullying tactics
B. abusing such tactics to "collectively punish" a broader group including innocent civilians

Collective punishment is seen nowhere in the definition provided. Feel free to provide an independent definition of terrorism that includes 'collective punishment'.

Blowing up civilians at a Christmas Market.

 

[emilynghiem]

So; your point?

Droning is like a truck attack.

^ Again cnm ^
There is a difference in useage,
and whether the drone or truck attack
A. only affects the targeted terrorist
B. causes collateral harm or damage to innocent civilians

The distinguishing factor again is
COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT

NOTE: the common factor in both is LACK OF DUE PROCESS

So if we address those two factors
1. Due process
2. Collective punishment (also related to Collateral Damage)
then we might clarify the real issues more effectively
than just citing "drones" and "truck attacks" too broadly.

Why not address the specific issues in why these cause harm when abused?

 

[cnm]

They used to.

Blowing up buses was an almost daily occurance.

So it wasn't terrorism because it was a common occurrence, according to fncceo.

 

[Mindful]

They used to.

Blowing up buses was an almost daily occurance.

So it wasn't terrorism.

So what was it?

You tell me.

 

[cnm]

Why not address the specific issues in why these cause harm when abused?

Because your arguments are too obtuse and do not address the given definition of terrorism, nor have you supplied a definition in lieu.

 

[cnm]

So what was it?

You tell me.

fncceo has told you it wasn't terrorism because it was a common occurrence.

 

[Mindful]

They used to.

Blowing up buses was an almost daily occurance.

So it wasn't terrorism because it was a common occurrence, according to fncceo.

You still never knew when the bomb would happen.

 

[Mindful]

So what was it?

You tell me.

fncceo has told you it wasn't terrorism because it was a common occurrence.

I'm asking YOU to tell me.

 

[fncceo]

If you're in a house in Iran or Iraq (or Syria or Lebanon, or any one of dozens of raging conflicts around the world) where war has been raging for more than a decade, it personally might be totally unexpected for a bomb to fall into your living room, but your neighbors will say, 'Bombs are dropping everywhere, thank Allah it wasn't our house'. The population at large won't be terrorized because bombs falling is a common occurrence where they live.

Oh. Thank you. It's good to know Palestinians can't commit terrorism in Israel. So the blockades can end, right?

I wouldn't call what Arab Palestinians are doing to Israel 'terrorism'. Primarily, because the Israeli populace isn't terrorized by it. When there was a series of suicide bombings in Jerusalem in the 1990s and early 2000s the day after a suicide bomber blew up on a bus or a market place, the buses and market places were full of Israelis. Israelis became pragmatic about it.

Which is one of the reasons Palestinians have altered their asymmetrical warfare strategy to missile attacks. The suicide bombers did not make the world sympathetic to their cause.

 

[emilynghiem]

1. your definition doesn't distinguish between
A. using bullying tactics strategically to compel a person or group that uses the same bullying tactics
B. abusing such tactics to "collectively punish" a broader group including innocent civilians

Collective punishment is seen nowhere in the definition provided. Feel free to provide an independent definition of terrorism that includes 'collective punishment'.

Okay cnm

How about the abuse of armed force to attack and terrorize civilian populations outside publicly established rules of
law enforcement and engagement between military forces, in order to seize political control over those populations
by deliberately violating due process, separation of powers by checks and balances, and laws against collective punishment.

 

[Mindful]

If you're in a house in Iran or Iraq (or Syria or Lebanon, or any one of dozens of raging conflicts around the world) where war has been raging for more than a decade, it personally might be totally unexpected for a bomb to fall into your living room, but your neighbors will say, 'Bombs are dropping everywhere, thank Allah it wasn't our house'. The population at large won't be terrorized because bombs falling is a common occurrence where they live.

Oh. Thank you. It's good to know Palestinians can't commit terrorism in Israel. So the blockades can end, right?

I wouldn't call what Arab Palestinians are doing to Israel 'terrorism'. Primarily, because the Israeli populace isn't terrorized by it. When there was a series of suicide bombings in Jerusalem in the 1990s and early 2000s the day after a suicide bomber blew up on a bus or a market place, the buses and market places were full of Israelis. Israelis became pragmatic about it.

Which is one of the reasons Palestinians have altered their asymmetrical warfare strategy to missile attacks. The suicide bombers did not make the world sympathetic to their cause.

But they also can't get into Israel properly so easily as before.

 

[fncceo]

If you're in a house in Iran or Iraq (or Syria or Lebanon, or any one of dozens of raging conflicts around the world) where war has been raging for more than a decade, it personally might be totally unexpected for a bomb to fall into your living room, but your neighbors will say, 'Bombs are dropping everywhere, thank Allah it wasn't our house'. The population at large won't be terrorized because bombs falling is a common occurrence where they live.

Oh. Thank you. It's good to know Palestinians can't commit terrorism in Israel. So the blockades can end, right?

I wouldn't call what Arab Palestinians are doing to Israel 'terrorism'. Primarily, because the Israeli populace isn't terrorized by it. When there was a series of suicide bombings in Jerusalem in the 1990s and early 2000s the day after a suicide bomber blew up on a bus or a market place, the buses and market places were full of Israelis. Israelis became pragmatic about it.

Which is one of the reasons Palestinians have altered their asymmetrical warfare strategy to missile attacks. The suicide bombers did not make the world sympathetic to their cause.

But they also can't get into Israel properly so easily as before.

Thanks to the border wall.