The unsustainability of "green" energy

[P@triot]

Don't get me wrong - "green" energy is a great concept. But so is cold fusion, automobiles that run on water, and a world without wars. Unfortunately, all of them are absurd pipe-dreams at this time.

The problem with "green" energy is the cost/benefit ratio. You have to spend millions of dollars to get the energy equivalent of a AAA battery (I'm exaggerating obviously but sadly not by a whole lot). Which makes it an unsustainable business venture. The federal government illegally invested half a billion dollars into Solyndra and they still went bankrupt.

Now, the world's largest renewable energy developer is also on the verge of bankruptcy as well. The government needs to get out of the green energy business and allow the private sector to fund all research and development. We're $19 trillion in debt because of illegal nonsense like that, and we can't afford to keep betting on a loser. Some day, technology will advance to the point where green energy will be a viable and brilliant solution. But that time is not now and pumping billions of dollars a year for over 4 decades now has yielded no ROI (and even if it had, it is still unconstitutional and that is all that matters).

World's largest renewable energy developer on verge of bankruptcy

I bet your great great grandpa saw the first horseless vehicle and yelled out, "get a horse".

I bet your great-great-grandfather saw the first "horseless vehicle" and yelled out "the government should force you to regress back to the days of the Roman Chariot". That's all you progressives do - regress society back to the stone ages.

Think about it honestly for a minute - progressives want to regress us back to the 1800's economically with Karl Marx's failed economic theory. They want to take regress us back to the 1700's politically with a King George III type dictatorship. They want to regress us back to the 1600's with energy - banning coal, nuclear, fracking, etc. and leaving burning candles as our only source of heat and light so that a ****'n shrub in Illinois has better quality of life than a child. And they want to regress us back to the 1500's with education.

Here's the thing sparky - I love technology. I embrace technology like nobody else. I leverage technology like nobody else. But what I don't love is failure. Sadly, you and your liberal pals love failure. You live for failure. You embrace failure like nobody else. The "green" energy pipe dream is decades away. It's been such a catastrophic failure that Jimmy Carter started subsidizing it in the 1970's and here we are over 40 years later and trillions of dollars later, and it still cost millions of dollars to get the energy equivalent of a ****'n AAA battery.

It takes a very special kind of stupid to embrace failure - but that's what liberals do.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn, you bore me too. Way too many words in creating a foolish post.

I wouldn't expect a liberal to be able to read more than three word "sentences". See spot run. After all, there's a reason you people need to live off of government.

 

[P@triot]

Liberalism continues to prop up extreme failure...

The program isn’t preparing students to take advantage of the wave of the future but setting them up for failure. Renewable energy’s (particularly wind and solar) business model is built on a house of subsidized cards. The industry stands to benefit from direct grants, targeted tax credits, taxpayer-backed loans, and generous handouts at the state level such as renewable electricity standards that mandate a certain percentage of a state’s power supply be generated from renewable sources.

Take the subsidies away and you’re left with intermittent, expensive energy technologies that in most instances are prohibitively costly to compete with conventional sources of energy like coal, oil, or natural gas.

If the subsidies cease to exist, training young Americans to enter the renewable energy workforce will be as useful as teaching them to build and sell typewriters and VCRs.

Renewable Energy Training a Bad Deal for DC Students

 

[Old Rocks]

So you don't think we should make some money and build our country at the same time?

Where have I ever said that? Why is it that when you are shown to be wrong you resort to twisting the words of what people say if not outright fabricating them? Why is that?

Then stop complaining.

Ummm, it is YOU that is doin' the whinin' dude.... Just sayin...

No, you're the one complaining about government subsidies for green energy. I'm simply pointing out that green energy can make money. Tons of it.
Ok, now you can get back to banning people from here for frivolous pseudo-violations.

Wrong. You all are proclaiming that "green" energy is the bee's knee's. and that we can't live without it. I am stating that we can live BETTER without it as the technology currently stands. The only "green" energy that is truly green anyway is hydroelectric. All others are far far from green. No dearie, the whiners are you and yours.

Doesn't matter what you think, Mr. Westwall, we are proceeding without your kind. Utility solar now being installed by the Gigawatt. More and more wind. More grid to take advantage of the areas of good wind.

And, after President Clinton takes office, even more grid into area in Wyoming and other high wind energy areas to pick up the mills that will be installed.

 

[Old Rocks]

isn t it funny how "Conservatives" scream against energy subzidies for new technology and love subsidies for coal oil and nuclear ?

conservative means : keep pumping money into ME ! don t give money to them !

Isn't it funny how progressives ignore reality and love to pump money into technology's that don't work? Here's the deal moron, the people that you like want the people of the world to spend 76 trillion dollars rebuilding the energy systems of this planet. All in the hope that they can lower the global temperature by ONE degree in 100 years. That is asinine. Through you and your fellow idiots, there will be less energy available at greater cost, and with MORE environmental damage than that which we already have.

Do you understand yet just how ridiculous you are yet?

What I understand is that there are a lot old liars like you that cannot stand the future. Just get out of the way and let us get the job done. We don't need you people, and will ignore you as we build the future.

 

[P@triot]

Wrong. You all are proclaiming that "green" energy is the bee's knee's. and that we can't live without it. I am stating that we can live BETTER without it as the technology currently stands. The only "green" energy that is truly green anyway is hydroelectric. All others are far far from green. No dearie, the whiners are you and yours.

Doesn't matter what you think, Mr. Westwall, we are proceeding without your kind. Utility solar now being installed by the Gigawatt. More and more wind. More grid to take advantage of the areas of good wind.

And, after President Clinton takes office, even more grid into area in Wyoming and other high wind energy areas to pick up the mills that will be installed.

So you admit that it's not "green" (you certainly didn't attempt to dispute what Westwall said) but you're going to brag that your side of the aisle is dumb enough to move full speed ahead with a failed technology which costs billions of dollars, produces the same energy as ****'n AAA battery, and isn't even that "green" to begin with?

That's a special kind of stupid that could only come from the left.

 

[P@triot]

What I understand is that there are a lot old liars like you that cannot stand the future. Just get out of the way and let us get the job done. We don't need you people, and will ignore you as we build the future.

Spoken like a true authoritarian communist.

We have our work cut out for us trying to rebuild this nation that you and your idiot ideology has destroyed. You moron's want economic policy from the 1800's (Karl Marx), political policy from the 1700's (King George III - as you just illustrated),education from the 1600's (before real science and technology), and energy policy from the 1500's (where we can only burn a ****'n candle for heat and light). Nobody does regression like progressives.

 

[westwall]

Where have I ever said that? Why is it that when you are shown to be wrong you resort to twisting the words of what people say if not outright fabricating them? Why is that?

Then stop complaining.

Ummm, it is YOU that is doin' the whinin' dude.... Just sayin...

No, you're the one complaining about government subsidies for green energy. I'm simply pointing out that green energy can make money. Tons of it.
Ok, now you can get back to banning people from here for frivolous pseudo-violations.

Wrong. You all are proclaiming that "green" energy is the bee's knee's. and that we can't live without it. I am stating that we can live BETTER without it as the technology currently stands. The only "green" energy that is truly green anyway is hydroelectric. All others are far far from green. No dearie, the whiners are you and yours.

Doesn't matter what you think, Mr. Westwall, we are proceeding without your kind. Utility solar now being installed by the Gigawatt. More and more wind. More grid to take advantage of the areas of good wind.

And, after President Clinton takes office, even more grid into area in Wyoming and other high wind energy areas to pick up the mills that will be installed.

Yes, more and more fraud and they will shutter them just like the Germans are shutting them down. Because they SUCK!

 

[westwall]

isn t it funny how "Conservatives" scream against energy subzidies for new technology and love subsidies for coal oil and nuclear ?

conservative means : keep pumping money into ME ! don t give money to them !

Isn't it funny how progressives ignore reality and love to pump money into technology's that don't work? Here's the deal moron, the people that you like want the people of the world to spend 76 trillion dollars rebuilding the energy systems of this planet. All in the hope that they can lower the global temperature by ONE degree in 100 years. That is asinine. Through you and your fellow idiots, there will be less energy available at greater cost, and with MORE environmental damage than that which we already have.

Do you understand yet just how ridiculous you are yet?

What I understand is that there are a lot old liars like you that cannot stand the future. Just get out of the way and let us get the job done. We don't need you people, and will ignore you as we build the future.

I would love to enjoy the future. Windmills are the PAST. Silly people like you think they are somehow special because they like old technology. Here's the deal, dude....it's old technology because it isn't as efficient as fossil fuels. What would be a future technology would be a broadcast energy system like Tesla envisioned. I'm all over that as that is truly a revolutionary technology.

Windmills aren't.

 

[hauke]

question : when all the oil has been burned when all the coal has been burned when all the gas has been burned when all the uranium has been used##

how do you compare a solarpanel to nothing ?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Don't get me wrong - "green" energy is a great concept. But so is cold fusion, automobiles that run on water, and a world without wars. Unfortunately, all of them are absurd pipe-dreams at this time.

The problem with "green" energy is the cost/benefit ratio. You have to spend millions of dollars to get the energy equivalent of a AAA battery (I'm exaggerating obviously but sadly not by a whole lot). Which makes it an unsustainable business venture. The federal government illegally invested half a billion dollars into Solyndra and they still went bankrupt.

Now, the world's largest renewable energy developer is also on the verge of bankruptcy as well. The government needs to get out of the green energy business and allow the private sector to fund all research and development. We're $19 trillion in debt because of illegal nonsense like that, and we can't afford to keep betting on a loser. Some day, technology will advance to the point where green energy will be a viable and brilliant solution. But that time is not now and pumping billions of dollars a year for over 4 decades now has yielded no ROI (and even if it had, it is still unconstitutional and that is all that matters).

World's largest renewable energy developer on verge of bankruptcy

I bet your great great grandpa saw the first horseless vehicle and yelled out, "get a horse".

You seriously think we want to drive this clown car

Instead of this

You're crazy

 

[Wyatt earp]

question : when all the oil has been burned when all the coal has been burned when all the gas has been burned when all the uranium has been used##

how do you compare a solarpanel to nothing ?

Solar panels would have been obsolete by about 500 years if your above scenario ever happens.

 

[flacaltenn]

Don't get me wrong - "green" energy is a great concept. But so is cold fusion, automobiles that run on water, and a world without wars. Unfortunately, all of them are absurd pipe-dreams at this time.

The problem with "green" energy is the cost/benefit ratio. You have to spend millions of dollars to get the energy equivalent of a AAA battery (I'm exaggerating obviously but sadly not by a whole lot). Which makes it an unsustainable business venture. The federal government illegally invested half a billion dollars into Solyndra and they still went bankrupt.

Now, the world's largest renewable energy developer is also on the verge of bankruptcy as well. The government needs to get out of the green energy business and allow the private sector to fund all research and development. We're $19 trillion in debt because of illegal nonsense like that, and we can't afford to keep betting on a loser. Some day, technology will advance to the point where green energy will be a viable and brilliant solution. But that time is not now and pumping billions of dollars a year for over 4 decades now has yielded no ROI (and even if it had, it is still unconstitutional and that is all that matters).

World's largest renewable energy developer on verge of bankruptcy

I bet your great great grandpa saw the first horseless vehicle and yelled out, "get a horse".

And NOW -- you're forcing us back to horses. Go figure.. Will reach a point where I prefer to take ole Charley into town than mess with those tiny "coal charged" electric carts.

There's no market for wind. You can't write a contract to provide XXX Megawatts on Tues afternoon. You don't run a Grid for the modern world on "Maybe Thurs for a couple hours"

And neither do you power any city on a summer night with Solar. When at 10PM the demand is 80% of what it was at NOON. BEST deal for solar is to reduce that Noon peak by 10 or 15%. That's it. That's all ya got. Except for Cuisanarts under the ocean to tear up sea life -- or Geothermal which is a dirty mining/fracking operation.

You can whine all ya want. That list of your "alternatives" are NOT alternatives.

 

[westwall]

question : when all the oil has been burned when all the coal has been burned when all the gas has been burned when all the uranium has been used##

how do you compare a solarpanel to nothing ?

Get back to me in 200 years when the oil has been used up. Then you can come back 150 years after that for the coal, and then you can come back a couple of thousand years after that for the radioactives.

 

[Old Rocks]

Don't get me wrong - "green" energy is a great concept. But so is cold fusion, automobiles that run on water, and a world without wars. Unfortunately, all of them are absurd pipe-dreams at this time.

The problem with "green" energy is the cost/benefit ratio. You have to spend millions of dollars to get the energy equivalent of a AAA battery (I'm exaggerating obviously but sadly not by a whole lot). Which makes it an unsustainable business venture. The federal government illegally invested half a billion dollars into Solyndra and they still went bankrupt.

Now, the world's largest renewable energy developer is also on the verge of bankruptcy as well. The government needs to get out of the green energy business and allow the private sector to fund all research and development. We're $19 trillion in debt because of illegal nonsense like that, and we can't afford to keep betting on a loser. Some day, technology will advance to the point where green energy will be a viable and brilliant solution. But that time is not now and pumping billions of dollars a year for over 4 decades now has yielded no ROI (and even if it had, it is still unconstitutional and that is all that matters).

World's largest renewable energy developer on verge of bankruptcy

I bet your great great grandpa saw the first horseless vehicle and yelled out, "get a horse".

I bet your great-great-grandfather saw the first "horseless vehicle" and yelled out "the government should force you to regress back to the days of the Roman Chariot". That's all you progressives do - regress society back to the stone ages.

Think about it honestly for a minute - progressives want to regress us back to the 1800's economically with Karl Marx's failed economic theory. They want to take regress us back to the 1700's politically with a King George III type dictatorship. They want to regress us back to the 1600's with energy - banning coal, nuclear, fracking, etc. and leaving burning candles as our only source of heat and light so that a ****'n shrub in Illinois has better quality of life than a child. And they want to regress us back to the 1500's with education.

Here's the thing sparky - I love technology. I embrace technology like nobody else. I leverage technology like nobody else. But what I don't love is failure. Sadly, you and your liberal pals love failure. You live for failure. You embrace failure like nobody else. The "green" energy pipe dream is decades away. It's been such a catastrophic failure that Jimmy Carter started subsidizing it in the 1970's and here we are over 40 years later and trillions of dollars later, and it still cost millions of dollars to get the energy equivalent of a ****'n AAA battery.

It takes a very special kind of stupid to embrace failure - but that's what liberals do.

What a ******* stupid bastard you are. Wind and solar are scaring the utilities because of the amount of electricity they produce.

Texas and California have a bizarre problem: too much renewable energy

Solar and wind power are coming online at rates unforeseen only a few years ago. That’s a good thing if your goal is to decarbonize the energy sector. But if you’re a utility or independent power producer and you make your money selling electricity, it can be not such a good thing.

In places with abundant wind and solar resources, like Texas and California, the price of electricity is dipping more and more frequently into negative territory. In other words, utilities that operate big fossil-fuel or nuclear plants, which are very costly to switch off and ramp up again, are running into problems when wind and solar farms are generating at their peaks. With too much energy supply to the grid, spot prices for power turn negative and utilities are forced to pay grid operators to take power off their hands.

That’s happened on about a dozen days over the past year in sunny Southern California, according to data from Bloomberg, and it’s liable to happen more often in the future. “In Texas, power at one major hub traded below zero for almost 50 hours in November and again in March,” according to the state’s grid operator. In Germany, negative energy prices have become commonplace, dramatically slashing utility revenues despite renewable energy subsidies that bolster electricity prices much more than in the United States.

However, as the continued decrease in price for grid scale storage makes that technology a necessity, firing up the nukes and natural gas generators will become increasingly unnecessary. And the price of electricity will come down, and the profits of the utilities will stabalize.

 

[Old Rocks]

Don't get me wrong - "green" energy is a great concept. But so is cold fusion, automobiles that run on water, and a world without wars. Unfortunately, all of them are absurd pipe-dreams at this time.

The problem with "green" energy is the cost/benefit ratio. You have to spend millions of dollars to get the energy equivalent of a AAA battery (I'm exaggerating obviously but sadly not by a whole lot). Which makes it an unsustainable business venture. The federal government illegally invested half a billion dollars into Solyndra and they still went bankrupt.

Now, the world's largest renewable energy developer is also on the verge of bankruptcy as well. The government needs to get out of the green energy business and allow the private sector to fund all research and development. We're $19 trillion in debt because of illegal nonsense like that, and we can't afford to keep betting on a loser. Some day, technology will advance to the point where green energy will be a viable and brilliant solution. But that time is not now and pumping billions of dollars a year for over 4 decades now has yielded no ROI (and even if it had, it is still unconstitutional and that is all that matters).

World's largest renewable energy developer on verge of bankruptcy

I bet your great great grandpa saw the first horseless vehicle and yelled out, "get a horse".

And NOW -- you're forcing us back to horses. Go figure.. Will reach a point where I prefer to take ole Charley into town than mess with those tiny "coal charged" electric carts.

There's no market for wind. You can't write a contract to provide XXX Megawatts on Tues afternoon. You don't run a Grid for the modern world on "Maybe Thurs for a couple hours"

And neither do you power any city on a summer night with Solar. When at 10PM the demand is 80% of what it was at NOON. BEST deal for solar is to reduce that Noon peak by 10 or 15%. That's it. That's all ya got. Except for Cuisanarts under the ocean to tear up sea life -- or Geothermal which is a dirty mining/fracking operation.

You can whine all ya want. That list of your "alternatives" are NOT alternatives.

Mr. Flacaltenn, you are truly full of shit on this subject.

https://www.innotap.com/2016/06/grid-scale-batteries-gain-ground-research-continues-seek-lower-cost/

In deregulated electricity markets like most of Texas, where the lowest cost means of generation wins out, energy storage largely remains too expensive. Still, battery projects are not unheard of; the power company AES Corp. and the transmission company Oncor launched one in Dallas to help regulate power.

“We definitely are at an acceleration point,” Jaffe said. “You’re starting to see project you wouldn’t call pilots anymore, big large projects.”

So far, energy storage has largely gravitated around lithium ion technology, the same form of battery used to power smartphones and laptops. Costs have come down fast as companies like Tesla and Panasonic refine the manufacturing process for use in cars and grid storage systems.

But as anyone with a smartphone knows, lithium ion’s lifespan is limited, with a steady loss of capacity as the years tick away. That might not be much of a problem for personal electronics or even cars, but power industry equipment is expected to last 20 years.

Instead, many scientists are turning towards what is known as flow battery technology, which stores energy by shifting electrical charges across liquids and is believed to have a lifespan of decades. Scientists at the federal Joint Center for Energy Storage Research have already committed to the technology for grid storage after spending more than three years exploring alternatives, Crabtree said.

“Everyone says batteries are at the place solar was 10 years ago,” he said. “As you know, the cost of solar has come down and the quality has gone up. Now they’re getting installed like mad.”

In a decade, the combination of wind, solar, and geothermal will, on the basis of economics, put fossil fuel and nuclear plants out of business. The developing storage technology guarantees that.

 

[Old Rocks]

question : when all the oil has been burned when all the coal has been burned when all the gas has been burned when all the uranium has been used##

how do you compare a solarpanel to nothing ?

Get back to me in 200 years when the oil has been used up. Then you can come back 150 years after that for the coal, and then you can come back a couple of thousand years after that for the radioactives.

Were we to burn all the oil, coal, and natural gas, won't be anybody getting back with anybody else. A P-T event will ensue.

 

[Old Rocks]

Don't get me wrong - "green" energy is a great concept. But so is cold fusion, automobiles that run on water, and a world without wars. Unfortunately, all of them are absurd pipe-dreams at this time.

The problem with "green" energy is the cost/benefit ratio. You have to spend millions of dollars to get the energy equivalent of a AAA battery (I'm exaggerating obviously but sadly not by a whole lot). Which makes it an unsustainable business venture. The federal government illegally invested half a billion dollars into Solyndra and they still went bankrupt.

Now, the world's largest renewable energy developer is also on the verge of bankruptcy as well. The government needs to get out of the green energy business and allow the private sector to fund all research and development. We're $19 trillion in debt because of illegal nonsense like that, and we can't afford to keep betting on a loser. Some day, technology will advance to the point where green energy will be a viable and brilliant solution. But that time is not now and pumping billions of dollars a year for over 4 decades now has yielded no ROI (and even if it had, it is still unconstitutional and that is all that matters).

World's largest renewable energy developer on verge of bankruptcy

I bet your great great grandpa saw the first horseless vehicle and yelled out, "get a horse".

You seriously think we want to drive this clown car


View attachment 87869


Instead of this

You're crazy

For Koenigsegg, Lamborghini, and Bugatti, the afterglow of Pebble Beach weekendmay be fading a little faster than usual. That’s because each of those automakers have been shown up, just a little bit, by Tesla—which claims that the new Model S P100D can get to 60 mph in a mere 2.5 seconds.

The Model S P100D could be the quickest current regular-production car on the planet if the California automaker’s claims prove true. As Tesla concedes, the Porsche 918 Spyder and the LaFerrari were as quick or quicker, but they were limited-run vehicles, no longer made today and originally costing roughly $850,000 and $1.4 million.

True to its badging, the P100D will have a 100-kWh battery pack; Tesla says it’s good for a driving range of 315 miles, which makes it the longest-range production electric vehicle so far—and the first one from the automaker to go more than 300 miles on a charge.

It will be joined by a new Model X P100D that uses the same battery pack and can get to 60 mph in 2.9 seconds, with an EPA-rated driving range of 289 miles.

Tesla Says Model S P100D Is Quickest Production Car in the World, Longest-Range EV Yet

What I would like to have, would be a real car that is comfortable to drive, and won't shake itself to pieces in 50,000 miles like the Hellcat. When the Tesla 3 comes out, I expect that there will soon be four wheel drive versions with bigger motors and larger battery capacity that will dust off the Hellcat and cost no more.

But you and the rest of the 'Conservatives' have to lie to yourselves and everyone else about an American car built here in America, that is the cutting edge of automotive technology.

 

[Old Rocks]

isn t it funny how "Conservatives" scream against energy subzidies for new technology and love subsidies for coal oil and nuclear ?

conservative means : keep pumping money into ME ! don t give money to them !

Isn't it funny how progressives ignore reality and love to pump money into technology's that don't work? Here's the deal moron, the people that you like want the people of the world to spend 76 trillion dollars rebuilding the energy systems of this planet. All in the hope that they can lower the global temperature by ONE degree in 100 years. That is asinine. Through you and your fellow idiots, there will be less energy available at greater cost, and with MORE environmental damage than that which we already have.

Do you understand yet just how ridiculous you are yet?

What I understand is that there are a lot old liars like you that cannot stand the future. Just get out of the way and let us get the job done. We don't need you people, and will ignore you as we build the future.

I would love to enjoy the future. Windmills are the PAST. Silly people like you think they are somehow special because they like old technology. Here's the deal, dude....it's old technology because it isn't as efficient as fossil fuels. What would be a future technology would be a broadcast energy system like Tesla envisioned. I'm all over that as that is truly a revolutionary technology.

Windmills aren't.

Aren't what, silly ass? Texas is installing the windmills and solar by the gigawatt. And will continue to. And Oncor, the biggest utility in Texas is beginning to install grid scale batteries. And here in Oregon, we are doing the same on a smaller scale. Go ahead and live in the 19th century if that turns you on. Just don't expect us to follow you.

 

[flacaltenn]

Don't get me wrong - "green" energy is a great concept. But so is cold fusion, automobiles that run on water, and a world without wars. Unfortunately, all of them are absurd pipe-dreams at this time.

The problem with "green" energy is the cost/benefit ratio. You have to spend millions of dollars to get the energy equivalent of a AAA battery (I'm exaggerating obviously but sadly not by a whole lot). Which makes it an unsustainable business venture. The federal government illegally invested half a billion dollars into Solyndra and they still went bankrupt.

Now, the world's largest renewable energy developer is also on the verge of bankruptcy as well. The government needs to get out of the green energy business and allow the private sector to fund all research and development. We're $19 trillion in debt because of illegal nonsense like that, and we can't afford to keep betting on a loser. Some day, technology will advance to the point where green energy will be a viable and brilliant solution. But that time is not now and pumping billions of dollars a year for over 4 decades now has yielded no ROI (and even if it had, it is still unconstitutional and that is all that matters).

World's largest renewable energy developer on verge of bankruptcy

I bet your great great grandpa saw the first horseless vehicle and yelled out, "get a horse".

And NOW -- you're forcing us back to horses. Go figure.. Will reach a point where I prefer to take ole Charley into town than mess with those tiny "coal charged" electric carts.

There's no market for wind. You can't write a contract to provide XXX Megawatts on Tues afternoon. You don't run a Grid for the modern world on "Maybe Thurs for a couple hours"

And neither do you power any city on a summer night with Solar. When at 10PM the demand is 80% of what it was at NOON. BEST deal for solar is to reduce that Noon peak by 10 or 15%. That's it. That's all ya got. Except for Cuisanarts under the ocean to tear up sea life -- or Geothermal which is a dirty mining/fracking operation.

You can whine all ya want. That list of your "alternatives" are NOT alternatives.

Mr. Flacaltenn, you are truly full of shit on this subject.

https://www.innotap.com/2016/06/grid-scale-batteries-gain-ground-research-continues-seek-lower-cost/

In deregulated electricity markets like most of Texas, where the lowest cost means of generation wins out, energy storage largely remains too expensive. Still, battery projects are not unheard of; the power company AES Corp. and the transmission company Oncor launched one in Dallas to help regulate power.

“We definitely are at an acceleration point,” Jaffe said. “You’re starting to see project you wouldn’t call pilots anymore, big large projects.”

So far, energy storage has largely gravitated around lithium ion technology, the same form of battery used to power smartphones and laptops. Costs have come down fast as companies like Tesla and Panasonic refine the manufacturing process for use in cars and grid storage systems.

But as anyone with a smartphone knows, lithium ion’s lifespan is limited, with a steady loss of capacity as the years tick away. That might not be much of a problem for personal electronics or even cars, but power industry equipment is expected to last 20 years.

Instead, many scientists are turning towards what is known as flow battery technology, which stores energy by shifting electrical charges across liquids and is believed to have a lifespan of decades. Scientists at the federal Joint Center for Energy Storage Research have already committed to the technology for grid storage after spending more than three years exploring alternatives, Crabtree said.

“Everyone says batteries are at the place solar was 10 years ago,” he said. “As you know, the cost of solar has come down and the quality has gone up. Now they’re getting installed like mad.”

In a decade, the combination of wind, solar, and geothermal will, on the basis of economics, put fossil fuel and nuclear plants out of business. The developing storage technology guarantees that.

Not gonna happen,.. would be an enviro disaster if it did. You have no concept of what it takes to store DAYS of electricity when the wind don't blow. You can't power a steel mill from batteries for a day or a city of 40,000 for more than a couple hours.

Do the math. Do the economics.. You're listening to the dying gasps of an industry that has been overhyped and over-sold..

 

[westwall]

question : when all the oil has been burned when all the coal has been burned when all the gas has been burned when all the uranium has been used##

how do you compare a solarpanel to nothing ?

Get back to me in 200 years when the oil has been used up. Then you can come back 150 years after that for the coal, and then you can come back a couple of thousand years after that for the radioactives.

Were we to burn all the oil, coal, and natural gas, won't be anybody getting back with anybody else. A P-T event will ensue.

Horsepoo. The PETM was at least 7 degrees warmer than the present day and it was a Garden of Eden. Your extinction event bullshit, is just that, bullshit.