The U.S. Constitution and The Declaration of Independence

[Votto]

We were created by sperms & eggs, not magic sky fairies and delivered by storks.

Says you!

 

[Votto]

The operative word in so much of this is: "was".

This is post-constitutional America.

Get over it.

JFK: "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country?"

Hillary: "We will give you free abortions and college!"

 

[KokomoJojo]

"Their Creator" references the Christian God of the Bible. The term was used in the same context in all of the state constitutions and other documents. The changes by the Commitee of Five and Congress were references to the same God.

state constitutions et al do NOT recognise the right to 'exercise' your religion, only a right to pray and whine, despite the fact they agreed to recognise your right in the federal constitution, and they and the feds established their own religion why they trumped the morman religion with their own religion by enforcing a ban against polyamory.

I do not understand what you are saying or the basis.

The Constitution of Virginia - June 29, 177:

SEC. 16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other.​

Constitution of Pennsylvania - September 28, 1776:

SECT. 45. Laws for the encouragement of virtue, and prevention of vice and immorality, shall be made and constantly kept in force, and provision shall be made for their due execution: And all religious societies or bodies of men heretofore united or incorporated for the advancement of religion or learning, or for other pious and charitable purposes, shall be encouraged and protected in the enjoyment of the privileges, immunities and estates which they were accustomed to enjoy, or could of right have enjoyed, under the laws and former constitution of this state.​

Constitution of Maryland - November 11, 1776:

XXXIII. That, as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to him; all persons, professing the Christian religion, are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty;​

which today has been reduced to have the right to pray:


No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain their opinions in matters of religion, and the same shall in nowise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.
Constitution of Virginia

yep there you go, your right to exercise is reduced to prayer and pissing moaning and whining.

If you exercise your muscle you put something into action, you dont pray, opine, express beliefs or argue about it. Exercising your religion means acting upon your beliefs, which if course carries the caveat that you cannot harm or injure another in the process of exercising your religion.

So think about what they are 'acknowledging' in their sense.

A right not in the sense it was intended, but in a sense that they cant stop you from praying anyway, hence you have to the right to do what nothing can be done about, but people today lost site of what the meaning and intent is.

The right to exercise your religion has been stripped from you.



Pennsylvania same thing:
All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences; no man can of right be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship or to maintain any ministry against his consent; no human authority can, in any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience, and no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious establishments or modes of worship.

Now pa gets a bit closer to exercise, IF they uphold the right of conscious, but they dont, no state acknowledges the mormon right to practice polyamory. The states established religion overules.



Now Maryland made me-LOL!



We, the People of the State of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty,...............

Art. 36. That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty; wherefore, no person ought by any law to be molested in his person or estate, on account of his religious persuasion, or profession, or for his religious practice, unless, under the color of religion, he shall disturb the good order, peace or safety of the State, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others in their natural, civil or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent, or maintain, or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain, any place of worship, or any ministry; nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefor either in this world or in the world to come.

Nothing shall prohibit or require the making reference to belief in, reliance upon, or invoking the aid of God or a Supreme Being in any governmental or public document, proceeding, activity, ceremony, school, institution, or place.

Nothing in this article shall constitute an establishment of religion (amended by Chapter 558, Acts of 1970, ratified Nov. 3, 1970).


Daym! We almost had a winner until they establised the state religion to trump your religion. "infringe the laws of morality"

Otherwise that one actually has the most precise wording that coincides with the religion clause.

Nothing in this article shall constitute an establishment of religion

so after establishing themselves as a religion they tell you not to interpret it that way. No shit I LOL'd over that one! Nice orwell move.






.

 

[Tennyson]

"Their Creator" references the Christian God of the Bible. The term was used in the same context in all of the state constitutions and other documents. The changes by the Commitee of Five and Congress were references to the same God.

state constitutions et al do NOT recognise the right to 'exercise' your religion, only a right to pray and whine, despite the fact they agreed to recognise your right in the federal constitution, and they and the feds established their own religion why they trumped the morman religion with their own religion by enforcing a ban against polyamory.

I do not understand what you are saying or the basis.

The Constitution of Virginia - June 29, 177:

SEC. 16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other.​

Constitution of Pennsylvania - September 28, 1776:

SECT. 45. Laws for the encouragement of virtue, and prevention of vice and immorality, shall be made and constantly kept in force, and provision shall be made for their due execution: And all religious societies or bodies of men heretofore united or incorporated for the advancement of religion or learning, or for other pious and charitable purposes, shall be encouraged and protected in the enjoyment of the privileges, immunities and estates which they were accustomed to enjoy, or could of right have enjoyed, under the laws and former constitution of this state.​

Constitution of Maryland - November 11, 1776:

XXXIII. That, as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to him; all persons, professing the Christian religion, are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty;​

which today has been reduced to have the right to pray:


No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain their opinions in matters of religion, and the same shall in nowise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.
Constitution of Virginia

yep there you go, your right to exercise is reduced to prayer and pissing moaning and whining.

If you exercise your muscle you put something into action, you dont pray, opine, express beliefs or argue about it. Exercising your religion means acting upon your beliefs, which if course carries the caveat that you cannot harm or injure another in the process of exercising your religion.

So think about what they are 'acknowledging' in their sense.

A right not in the sense it was intended, but in a sense that they cant stop you from praying anyway, hence you have to the right to do what nothing can be done about, but people today lost site of what the meaning and intent is.

The right to exercise your religion has been stripped from you.



Pennsylvania same thing:
All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences; no man can of right be compelled to attend, erect or support any place of worship or to maintain any ministry against his consent; no human authority can, in any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience, and no preference shall ever be given by law to any religious establishments or modes of worship.

Now pa gets a bit closer to exercise, IF they uphold the right of conscious, but they dont, no state acknowledges the mormon right to practice polyamory. The states established religion overules.



Now Maryland made me-LOL!



We, the People of the State of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty,...............

Art. 36. That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty; wherefore, no person ought by any law to be molested in his person or estate, on account of his religious persuasion, or profession, or for his religious practice, unless, under the color of religion, he shall disturb the good order, peace or safety of the State, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others in their natural, civil or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent, or maintain, or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain, any place of worship, or any ministry; nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefor either in this world or in the world to come.

Nothing shall prohibit or require the making reference to belief in, reliance upon, or invoking the aid of God or a Supreme Being in any governmental or public document, proceeding, activity, ceremony, school, institution, or place.

Nothing in this article shall constitute an establishment of religion (amended by Chapter 558, Acts of 1970, ratified Nov. 3, 1970).


Daym! We almost had a winner until they establised the state religion to trump your religion. "infringe the laws of morality"

Otherwise that one actually has the most precise wording that coincides with the religion clause.

Nothing in this article shall constitute an establishment of religion

so after establishing themselves as a religion they tell you not to interpret it that way. No shit I LOL'd over that one! Nice orwell move.






.

I cannot find any connection of your post to mine. I also cannot make any sense of your interpretations of the state's constitutions.

 

[dpr112yme]

"Their Creator" references the Christian God of the Bible. The term was used in the same context in all of the state constitutions and other documents. The changes by the Commitee of Five and Congress were references to the same God.

state constitutions et al do NOT recognise the right to 'exercise' your religion, only a right to pray and whine, despite the fact they agreed to recognise your right in the federal constitution, and they and the feds established their own religion why they trumped the morman religion with their own religion by enforcing a ban against polyamory.

I do not understand what you are saying or the basis.

The Constitution of Virginia - June 29, 177:

SEC. 16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other.​

Constitution of Pennsylvania - September 28, 1776:

SECT. 45. Laws for the encouragement of virtue, and prevention of vice and immorality, shall be made and constantly kept in force, and provision shall be made for their due execution: And all religious societies or bodies of men heretofore united or incorporated for the advancement of religion or learning, or for other pious and charitable purposes, shall be encouraged and protected in the enjoyment of the privileges, immunities and estates which they were accustomed to enjoy, or could of right have enjoyed, under the laws and former constitution of this state.​

Constitution of Maryland - November 11, 1776:

XXXIII. That, as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to him; all persons, professing the Christian religion, are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty;​

So, maybe those laws should be kept.

 

[dpr112yme]

"Their Creator" references the Christian God of the Bible. The term was used in the same context in all of the state constitutions and other documents. The changes by the Commitee of Five and Congress were references to the same God.

state constitutions et al do NOT recognise the right to 'exercise' your religion, only a right to pray and whine, despite the fact they agreed to recognise your right in the federal constitution, and they and the feds established their own religion why they trumped the morman religion with their own religion by enforcing a ban against polyamory.

And, interestingly enough, there is a clause formed by past President that states that all non profits have NO say to government advocacy, for or against. And this includes Church. The Restriction of Political Campaign Intervention by Section 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Organizations

 

[Tennyson]

"Their Creator" references the Christian God of the Bible. The term was used in the same context in all of the state constitutions and other documents. The changes by the Commitee of Five and Congress were references to the same God.

state constitutions et al do NOT recognise the right to 'exercise' your religion, only a right to pray and whine, despite the fact they agreed to recognise your right in the federal constitution, and they and the feds established their own religion why they trumped the morman religion with their own religion by enforcing a ban against polyamory.

And, interestingly enough, there is a clause formed by past President that states that all non profits have NO say to government advocacy, for or against. And this includes Church. The Restriction of Political Campaign Intervention by Section 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Organizations

Churches do not need 501(c)(3) status to be non-profit. Some churches have 501(c)(3) status for various reasons and some do not have 501(c)(3) status and are still non-profit.

 

[sartre play]

We were created by sperms & eggs, not magic sky fairies and delivered by storks.

Says you!

 

[KokomoJojo]

"Their Creator" references the Christian God of the Bible. The term was used in the same context in all of the state constitutions and other documents. The changes by the Commitee of Five and Congress were references to the same God.

state constitutions et al do NOT recognise the right to 'exercise' your religion, only a right to pray and whine, despite the fact they agreed to recognise your right in the federal constitution, and they and the feds established their own religion why they trumped the morman religion with their own religion by enforcing a ban against polyamory.

And, interestingly enough, there is a clause formed by past President that states that all non profits have NO say to government advocacy, for or against. And this includes Church. The Restriction of Political Campaign Intervention by Section 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Organizations

well 'religion' is a broad term. technically everyone worships a god (even atheists) despite their rejection of the idea, as a god does not have to be a sky pilot to be worshiped as a god which is not the primary issue.

The primary issue is that if you believe eating pork and beans every day helps reduce the chances of cancer and is for your own well being that is in fact part of your religion.

Exercising your religion is the 'single' most important right that you have as a man or woman. Without it all you have left is the state...(everyone elses religion). That is why you see little to nothing regarding religion in the courts, its a hot potato, and like speech and arms because when you shake off the dust, if you want to uphold the strict interpretation of the contract, these are what is known as 'reserved' rights. In other words the gvmnt was not allowed to come into existence without first agreeing 'NOT' to trespass on said rights.

Not a little bit here is ok and a little bit there is ok, or a thin slice here or there is acceptable because some so called 'democracy' decided to 'vote' your rights away, (usually for their convenience) and setting up profit institutions.

 

[dpr112yme]

"Their Creator" references the Christian God of the Bible. The term was used in the same context in all of the state constitutions and other documents. The changes by the Commitee of Five and Congress were references to the same God.

state constitutions et al do NOT recognise the right to 'exercise' your religion, only a right to pray and whine, despite the fact they agreed to recognise your right in the federal constitution, and they and the feds established their own religion why they trumped the morman religion with their own religion by enforcing a ban against polyamory.

And, interestingly enough, there is a clause formed by past President that states that all non profits have NO say to government advocacy, for or against. And this includes Church. The Restriction of Political Campaign Intervention by Section 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Organizations

Churches do not need 501(c)(3) status to be non-profit. Some churches have 501(c)(3) status for various reasons and some do not have 501(c)(3) status and are still non-profit.

And still neither the non for profit nor for profit can have any say for the advocacy of any matter towards government.

 

[regent]

The Constitution came about during the Age of Enlightenment. It was the age of Nature's God. Nature was the biggie and nature had rules and those rules ruled the earth. The question then became, did nature have rules for governments? The Declaration holds some of those rules as the reason for our declaring independence.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Their list of "created equal" sure excluded a lot of people.

What list? Where is THAT published? Who actually drafted it? Details and specifics, please.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The Declaration was an appeal for help and a form of propaganda. It was also a reflection of the period it was written: The Age of Enlightenment. The usual question about the Declaration is why did Jefferson change "estates" to pursuit of happiness?

This is Jefferson's original draft:

We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independant, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness;

I was referring to Locke. The Congress changed Jefferson's Declaration over eighty times.

How could you possibly have been referring to Locke, when your post was about the Declaration of Independence, and Locke wasn't involved in that?

 

[regent]

The Declaration was an appeal for help and a form of propaganda. It was also a reflection of the period it was written: The Age of Enlightenment. The usual question about the Declaration is why did Jefferson change "estates" to pursuit of happiness?

This is Jefferson's original draft:

We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independant, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness;

I was referring to Locke. The Congress changed Jefferson's Declaration over eighty times.

How could you possibly have been referring to Locke, when your post was about the Declaration of Independence, and Locke wasn't involved in that?

Jefferson wrote the Declaration and Locke was very much involved through Jefferson.

 

[KokomoJojo]

The Declaration was an appeal for help and a form of propaganda. It was also a reflection of the period it was written: The Age of Enlightenment. The usual question about the Declaration is why did Jefferson change "estates" to pursuit of happiness?

This is Jefferson's original draft:

We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independant, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness;

I was referring to Locke. The Congress changed Jefferson's Declaration over eighty times.

How could you possibly have been referring to Locke, when your post was about the Declaration of Independence, and Locke wasn't involved in that?

Jefferson wrote the Declaration and Locke was very much involved through Jefferson.

the philosophy at the time most of which still stands strong to this day, though often incorrectly interpreted.

 

[regent]

The founders created two documents to rule the new nation. The second one a little less liberal than the first but perhaps more practical for the nation some envisioned. Could we find fifty Americans, at this time, to write a Constitution that would last as long as the one we have? Just fifty Americans?

 

[Tennyson]

The Declaration was an appeal for help and a form of propaganda. It was also a reflection of the period it was written: The Age of Enlightenment. The usual question about the Declaration is why did Jefferson change "estates" to pursuit of happiness?

This is Jefferson's original draft:

We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independant, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness;

I was referring to Locke. The Congress changed Jefferson's Declaration over eighty times.

How could you possibly have been referring to Locke, when your post was about the Declaration of Independence, and Locke wasn't involved in that?

Jefferson wrote the Declaration and Locke was very much involved through Jefferson.

Jefferson only wrote the first draft. He was part of the Commitee of Five. They revised it and the Continental Congress revised it further.

 

[Tennyson]

The Constitution came about during the Age of Enlightenment. It was the age of Nature's God. Nature was the biggie and nature had rules and those rules ruled the earth. The question then became, did nature have rules for governments? The Declaration holds some of those rules as the reason for our declaring independence.

There is no enlightenment influence in the Constitution. There are parts directly from enlightenment thinkers such as Locke and Montesquieu, but they were outliers in the enlightenment.

 

[Tennyson]

"Their Creator" references the Christian God of the Bible. The term was used in the same context in all of the state constitutions and other documents. The changes by the Commitee of Five and Congress were references to the same God.

state constitutions et al do NOT recognise the right to 'exercise' your religion, only a right to pray and whine, despite the fact they agreed to recognise your right in the federal constitution, and they and the feds established their own religion why they trumped the morman religion with their own religion by enforcing a ban against polyamory.

And, interestingly enough, there is a clause formed by past President that states that all non profits have NO say to government advocacy, for or against. And this includes Church. The Restriction of Political Campaign Intervention by Section 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Organizations

Churches do not need 501(c)(3) status to be non-profit. Some churches have 501(c)(3) status for various reasons and some do not have 501(c)(3) status and are still non-profit.

And still neither the non for profit nor for profit can have any say for the advocacy of any matter towards government.

The federal government amended the tax code in 1954 preventing churches from giving political speeches. No church's had lost its tax exempt status since 1954.

 

[regent]

The Constitution came about during the Age of Enlightenment. It was the age of Nature's God. Nature was the biggie and nature had rules and those rules ruled the earth. The question then became, did nature have rules for governments? The Declaration holds some of those rules as the reason for our declaring independence.

There is no enlightenment influence in the Constitution. There are parts directly from enlightenment thinkers such as Locke and Montesquieu, but they were outliers in the enlightenment.

"The American Founders belonged to the Age of Enlightenment."