The U.S.A. Constitution!

[Centinel]

And the constitutionally delegated power that the federal government would no longer have is...?

Laid out in post 42. Just like I told you last time.

Reading what you ask for. Its what's for dinner.

I have looked every time you reference that post. It doesn't say what power the united states would no longer have were a state to leave the union.

No you haven't. Try again. This time looking for the phrase '____________ is a power delegated to the United States by the constitution'.

Hm, I see it now: "The power to enact federal law upon State territory IS a power delegated to the United States by the Constitution."

I disagree with your claim. Can you cite the supporting language in the constitution?

Where then would the legislative power apply? Geographically speaking, of course.

Where would the legislative power of the united states apply? To the member states of the union.

 

[Skylar]

Laid out in post 42. Just like I told you last time.

Reading what you ask for. Its what's for dinner.

I have looked every time you reference that post. It doesn't say what power the united states would no longer have were a state to leave the union.

No you haven't. Try again. This time looking for the phrase '____________ is a power delegated to the United States by the constitution'.

Hm, I see it now: "The power to enact federal law upon State territory IS a power delegated to the United States by the Constitution."

I disagree with your claim. Can you cite the supporting language in the constitution?

Where then would the legislative power apply? Geographically speaking, of course.

Where would the legislative power of the united states apply? To the member states of the union.

Would the application of the legislative power of the United States include the State of Maine?

 

[Centinel]

I have looked every time you reference that post. It doesn't say what power the united states would no longer have were a state to leave the union.

No you haven't. Try again. This time looking for the phrase '____________ is a power delegated to the United States by the constitution'.

Hm, I see it now: "The power to enact federal law upon State territory IS a power delegated to the United States by the Constitution."

I disagree with your claim. Can you cite the supporting language in the constitution?

Where then would the legislative power apply? Geographically speaking, of course.

Where would the legislative power of the united states apply? To the member states of the union.

Would the application of the legislative power of the United States include the State of Maine?

The united states is comprised of all the states who are currently members of the union. So, for now, it would include the state of Maine. Were the state of Maine to leave the union, it would include it no longer.

 

[Skylar]

No you haven't. Try again. This time looking for the phrase '____________ is a power delegated to the United States by the constitution'.

Hm, I see it now: "The power to enact federal law upon State territory IS a power delegated to the United States by the Constitution."

I disagree with your claim. Can you cite the supporting language in the constitution?

Where then would the legislative power apply? Geographically speaking, of course.

Where would the legislative power of the united states apply? To the member states of the union.

Would the application of the legislative power of the United States include the State of Maine?

The united states is comprised of all the states who are currently members of the union. So, for now, it would include the state of Maine. Were the state of Maine to leave the union, it would include it no longer.

Since the legislative power extends to the all the territory of Maine, how would Maine exit the union without stripping the federal government of the legislative power over Maine territory?

 

[Centinel]

Hm, I see it now: "The power to enact federal law upon State territory IS a power delegated to the United States by the Constitution."

I disagree with your claim. Can you cite the supporting language in the constitution?

Where then would the legislative power apply? Geographically speaking, of course.

Where would the legislative power of the united states apply? To the member states of the union.

Would the application of the legislative power of the United States include the State of Maine?

The united states is comprised of all the states who are currently members of the union. So, for now, it would include the state of Maine. Were the state of Maine to leave the union, it would include it no longer.

Since the legislative power extends to the all the territory of Maine, how would Maine exit the union without stripping the federal government of the legislative power of Maine territory?

The legislative power of congress only applies to the united states. It doesn't apply to states not in the union. A state leaving the union does not affect congress' legislative powers of the states that remain in the union.

Secession does, however, disconnect the seceding state from the union, so the laws of the united states would no longer be relevant, just as the laws of the united states are not relevant in France.

 

[Centinel]

Hm, I see it now: "The power to enact federal law upon State territory IS a power delegated to the United States by the Constitution."

I disagree with your claim. Can you cite the supporting language in the constitution?

Where then would the legislative power apply? Geographically speaking, of course.

Where would the legislative power of the united states apply? To the member states of the union.

Would the application of the legislative power of the United States include the State of Maine?

The united states is comprised of all the states who are currently members of the union. So, for now, it would include the state of Maine. Were the state of Maine to leave the union, it would include it no longer.

Since the legislative power extends to the all the territory of Maine, how would Maine exit the union without stripping the federal government of the legislative power over Maine territory?

BTW, would the (hypothetical) addition of Puerto Rico as the 51st state unconstitutionally add legislative power over the Puerto Rico territory?

 

[Skylar]

Where then would the legislative power apply? Geographically speaking, of course.

Where would the legislative power of the united states apply? To the member states of the union.

Would the application of the legislative power of the United States include the State of Maine?

The united states is comprised of all the states who are currently members of the union. So, for now, it would include the state of Maine. Were the state of Maine to leave the union, it would include it no longer.

Since the legislative power extends to the all the territory of Maine, how would Maine exit the union without stripping the federal government of the legislative power of Maine territory?

The legislative power of congress only applies to the united states. It doesn't apply to states not in the union.

And how does the State exit the union without stripping the federal government of legislative power of that state's territory. You're skipping a rather important step.

A state leaving the union does not affect congress' legislative powers of the states that remain in the union.

It does however strip the federal government of its constitutionally delegated legislative power over the State's territory. Something a State doesn't have the authority to do.

See how this works?

Secession does, however, disconnect the seceding state from the union, so the laws of the united states would no longer be relevant, just as the laws of the united states are not relevant in France.

Not without violating the constitution it doesn't. You're making the very mistake the that Madison warned of: confounding the single party with the parties of the compact.

I partake of the wonder that the men you name should view secession in the light mentioned. The essential difference between a free Government and Governments not free, is that the former is founded in compact, the parties to which are mutually and equally bound by it. Neither of them therefore can have a greater fight to break off from the bargain, than the other or others have to hold them to it.

You insist that no state is bound to the compact and that none of the other states can hold them to it.

Why would I ignore James Madison and instead believe you? Remembering of course that every court to ever hear these issues has rejected your nonsense.

 

[Skylar]

Where then would the legislative power apply? Geographically speaking, of course.

Where would the legislative power of the united states apply? To the member states of the union.

Would the application of the legislative power of the United States include the State of Maine?

The united states is comprised of all the states who are currently members of the union. So, for now, it would include the state of Maine. Were the state of Maine to leave the union, it would include it no longer.

Since the legislative power extends to the all the territory of Maine, how would Maine exit the union without stripping the federal government of the legislative power over Maine territory?

BTW, would the (hypothetical) addition of Puerto Rico as the 51st state unconstitutionally add legislative power over the Puerto Rico territory?

How would Puerto Rico be added to the union, specifically?

 

[Centinel]

Where would the legislative power of the united states apply? To the member states of the union.

Would the application of the legislative power of the United States include the State of Maine?

The united states is comprised of all the states who are currently members of the union. So, for now, it would include the state of Maine. Were the state of Maine to leave the union, it would include it no longer.

Since the legislative power extends to the all the territory of Maine, how would Maine exit the union without stripping the federal government of the legislative power of Maine territory?

The legislative power of congress only applies to the united states. It doesn't apply to states not in the union.

And how does the State exit the union without stripping the federal government of legislative power of that state's territory. You're skipping a rather important step.

There's no law against a state leaving the union and incidentally stripping the union of legislative power over that state's territory.

The constitution only applies to the united states. It doesn't apply to foreign states, including foreign states that were once member states.

 

[Centinel]

Where would the legislative power of the united states apply? To the member states of the union.

Would the application of the legislative power of the United States include the State of Maine?

The united states is comprised of all the states who are currently members of the union. So, for now, it would include the state of Maine. Were the state of Maine to leave the union, it would include it no longer.

Since the legislative power extends to the all the territory of Maine, how would Maine exit the union without stripping the federal government of the legislative power over Maine territory?

BTW, would the (hypothetical) addition of Puerto Rico as the 51st state unconstitutionally add legislative power over the Puerto Rico territory?

How would Puerto Rico be added to the union, specifically?

Stupid question. You know states have been added to the union. Would the addition of a new state unconstitutionally add legislative power over the new state's territory?

 

[Skylar]

Would the application of the legislative power of the United States include the State of Maine?

The united states is comprised of all the states who are currently members of the union. So, for now, it would include the state of Maine. Were the state of Maine to leave the union, it would include it no longer.

Since the legislative power extends to the all the territory of Maine, how would Maine exit the union without stripping the federal government of the legislative power of Maine territory?

The legislative power of congress only applies to the united states. It doesn't apply to states not in the union.

And how does the State exit the union without stripping the federal government of legislative power of that state's territory. You're skipping a rather important step.

There's no law against a state leaving the union, and incidentally stripping the union of legislative power over that state's territory.

And where does the Constitution indicate that there needs to be law forbidding a State from violating the Constitution? The Supremacy clause extends the Constitution to all States as the Supreme Law of the Land.

You do understand what 'Supreme' means, right?

 

[Skylar]

Would the application of the legislative power of the United States include the State of Maine?

The united states is comprised of all the states who are currently members of the union. So, for now, it would include the state of Maine. Were the state of Maine to leave the union, it would include it no longer.

Since the legislative power extends to the all the territory of Maine, how would Maine exit the union without stripping the federal government of the legislative power over Maine territory?

BTW, would the (hypothetical) addition of Puerto Rico as the 51st state unconstitutionally add legislative power over the Puerto Rico territory?

How would Puerto Rico be added to the union, specifically?

Stupid question. You know states have been added to the union.

Its not a stupid question at all. As you're describing extra-constitutional processes as the basis of your argument. If you're planning on using similarly extra-constitutional processes to add Puerto Rico.....then obviously it wouldn't be constitutional.

So describe the process by which Puerto Rico would be added, citing the Constitution to back your claims.

 

[Centinel]

The united states is comprised of all the states who are currently members of the union. So, for now, it would include the state of Maine. Were the state of Maine to leave the union, it would include it no longer.

Since the legislative power extends to the all the territory of Maine, how would Maine exit the union without stripping the federal government of the legislative power of Maine territory?

The legislative power of congress only applies to the united states. It doesn't apply to states not in the union.

And how does the State exit the union without stripping the federal government of legislative power of that state's territory. You're skipping a rather important step.

There's no law against a state leaving the union, and incidentally stripping the union of legislative power over that state's territory.

And where does the Constitution indicate that there needs to be law forbidding a State from violating the Constitution? The Supremacy clause extends the Constitution to all States as the Supreme Law of the Land.

You do understand what 'Supreme' means, right?

Yep. The constitution, and all laws made pursuant to it, are the supreme law of the land. So which law, made in pursuance to the constitution prohibits a state from leaving the union?

 

[Centinel]

The united states is comprised of all the states who are currently members of the union. So, for now, it would include the state of Maine. Were the state of Maine to leave the union, it would include it no longer.

Since the legislative power extends to the all the territory of Maine, how would Maine exit the union without stripping the federal government of the legislative power over Maine territory?

BTW, would the (hypothetical) addition of Puerto Rico as the 51st state unconstitutionally add legislative power over the Puerto Rico territory?

How would Puerto Rico be added to the union, specifically?

Stupid question. You know states have been added to the union.

Its not a stupid question at all. As you're describing extra-constitutional processes as the basis of your argument. If you're planning on using similarly extra-constitutional processes to add Puerto Rico.....then obviously it wouldn't be constitutional.

So describe the process by which Puerto Rico would be added, citing the Constitution to back your claims.

I'm not describing an extra-constitutional process. I'm describing the perfectly constitutional and legal act of a state leaving the union it voluntarily joined.

 

[koshergrl]

The Constitution is what the Court say it is.
Justice Holmes

Nope. The courts do not have power over the constitution. Period. If they did, we would be an oligarchy. Which we are not. We are a CONSTITUTIONAL Republic. And when the court makes unconstitutional rulings, we are not obliged to follow them..because the ultimate power in our nation is the PEOPLE. We have authority OVER the courts, OVER congress, and over the president.

 

[Skylar]

Since the legislative power extends to the all the territory of Maine, how would Maine exit the union without stripping the federal government of the legislative power over Maine territory?

BTW, would the (hypothetical) addition of Puerto Rico as the 51st state unconstitutionally add legislative power over the Puerto Rico territory?

How would Puerto Rico be added to the union, specifically?

Stupid question. You know states have been added to the union.

Its not a stupid question at all. As you're describing extra-constitutional processes as the basis of your argument. If you're planning on using similarly extra-constitutional processes to add Puerto Rico.....then obviously it wouldn't be constitutional.

So describe the process by which Puerto Rico would be added, citing the Constitution to back your claims.

I'm not describing an extra-constitutional process. I'm describing the perfectly constitutional and legal act of a state leaving the union it voluntarily joined.

A state stripping the federal government of a constitutionally delegated power is most definitely extra-constitutional. As no state possesses this authority.

Now, describe the process by which Puerto Rico would be added to the Union. You're avoiding the topic like it were on fire because you know the process involves MANY states. Not merely the one in your extra-constitutional process. Its the contrast between your constitutionally invalid process and the very constitutional process of the many states that you're trying to avoid. And exactly what Madison describes.

The fallacy which draws a different conclusion from them lies in confounding a single party, with the parties to the Constitutional compact of the United States. The latter having made the compact may do what they will with it. The former as one only of the parties, owes fidelity to it, till released by consent, or absolved by an intolerable abuse of the power created.

The process of creating another state involves the parties to the constitutional compact of the United states. Not the 'single party' as your fallacy does.

And you know it. Which is why you refuse to describe the process by which a new state is created. If your argument had merit, you wouldn't have to run.

 

[Centinel]

BTW, would the (hypothetical) addition of Puerto Rico as the 51st state unconstitutionally add legislative power over the Puerto Rico territory?

How would Puerto Rico be added to the union, specifically?

Stupid question. You know states have been added to the union.

Its not a stupid question at all. As you're describing extra-constitutional processes as the basis of your argument. If you're planning on using similarly extra-constitutional processes to add Puerto Rico.....then obviously it wouldn't be constitutional.

So describe the process by which Puerto Rico would be added, citing the Constitution to back your claims.

I'm not describing an extra-constitutional process. I'm describing the perfectly constitutional and legal act of a state leaving the union it voluntarily joined.

A state stripping the federal government of a constitutionally delegated power is most definitely extra-constitutional. As no state possesses this authority.

Actually every state has this authority, because it's perfectly legal, which is to say it's not illegal. There is no law made pursuant to the constitution against it, therefore it's not illegal.

 

[Skylar]

Since the legislative power extends to the all the territory of Maine, how would Maine exit the union without stripping the federal government of the legislative power of Maine territory?

The legislative power of congress only applies to the united states. It doesn't apply to states not in the union.

And how does the State exit the union without stripping the federal government of legislative power of that state's territory. You're skipping a rather important step.

There's no law against a state leaving the union, and incidentally stripping the union of legislative power over that state's territory.

And where does the Constitution indicate that there needs to be law forbidding a State from violating the Constitution? The Supremacy clause extends the Constitution to all States as the Supreme Law of the Land.

You do understand what 'Supreme' means, right?

Yep. The constitution, and all laws made pursuant to it, are the supreme law of the land. So which law, made in pursuance to the constitution prohibits a state from leaving the union?

You didn't answer my question. Where does the Constitution indicate that there needs to be law forbidding a State from violating the Constitution?

As stripping the federal government of a constitutionally delegated power is most definitely a violation of the Constitution. As no state possesses this authority.

The several states do.

 

[Centinel]

The legislative power of congress only applies to the united states. It doesn't apply to states not in the union.

And how does the State exit the union without stripping the federal government of legislative power of that state's territory. You're skipping a rather important step.

There's no law against a state leaving the union, and incidentally stripping the union of legislative power over that state's territory.

And where does the Constitution indicate that there needs to be law forbidding a State from violating the Constitution? The Supremacy clause extends the Constitution to all States as the Supreme Law of the Land.

You do understand what 'Supreme' means, right?

Yep. The constitution, and all laws made pursuant to it, are the supreme law of the land. So which law, made in pursuance to the constitution prohibits a state from leaving the union?

You didn't answer my question. Where does the Constitution indicate that there needs to be law forbidding a State from violating the Constitution?

As stripping the federal government of a constitutionally delegated power is most definitely a violation of the Constitution. As no state possesses this authority.

The several states do.

Um, I hate to have to point this out to you, but if there's not a law against something, then it's legal to do.

 

[Skylar]

How would Puerto Rico be added to the union, specifically?

Stupid question. You know states have been added to the union.

Its not a stupid question at all. As you're describing extra-constitutional processes as the basis of your argument. If you're planning on using similarly extra-constitutional processes to add Puerto Rico.....then obviously it wouldn't be constitutional.

So describe the process by which Puerto Rico would be added, citing the Constitution to back your claims.

I'm not describing an extra-constitutional process. I'm describing the perfectly constitutional and legal act of a state leaving the union it voluntarily joined.

A state stripping the federal government of a constitutionally delegated power is most definitely extra-constitutional. As no state possesses this authority.

Actually every state has this authority. There is no law pursuant to the constitution against it, therefore it is authorized.

The 10th amendment and the Supremacy clause say otherwise:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

The legislative power over the territory of every State is most definitely a power delegated to the Federal govermnent. Ergo, its not a power the State possess.

And the Supremecy Clause makes it clear that the States are subject to the Constitution.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

Article 6, paragraph 2

You're insisting the exact opposite. That any state can strip the federal government of all powers at their whim and isn't bound to the constitution.

The Constitution says otherwise. And any contest between your personal opinion and the Constitution....the Constitution wins.