The truth about taxes

[Avatar4321]

Ahahahahaa......So what do we do then with the person who did just that, took the risk of investment, and then lost the investment? Just say no when he or she applies for SS when they turn 65 and have nothing?

Now if you had said savings account instead of investment, that would make more sense.

Why do you presume that just becaue we turn 65 we need to stop working?

 

[WillowTree]

• The top 1% of the wealthy earn 13% of all income but pay 39% of all income taxes (that is 3x's as much taxes as their share of the income: 13x3=39)

• The top 5% pay an astounding 64% of all income taxes

• The top 20% —the “rich”—already pay 94.1% of income taxes

• The bottom 60% pay on net less than zero income taxes, once the tax credits the government pays them are taken into account

Top 1% earns 13% of the wealth but pays 39% of the taxes

Top 5% paid 40% of taxes, what is their 'fair' share?

Top 20% Paid 94.1% of Income Taxes in 2009

Excerpt From: Wayne Allyn Root. “The Ultimate Obama Survival Guide.” Regnery Publishing, 2013-03-26. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/ultimate-obama-survival-guide/id601965000?mt=11

Why is it you guys only discuss federal income taxes and never discuss the numbers when all taxation is included? I'll tell you why. Because if you include all forms of taxation, those numbers become drastically different, and the wealthy then only pay slightly more than percentage wise compared to their earnings. Just by including payroll taxes, the numbers change substantially, and then when you include state and local taxes, it really changes drastically, because lower income earners pay the highest percentage of state and local taxes. They also pay a much larger portion of their income in payroll taxes.

I'm so sick of this stupid argument, but hey, I'm sure you'll keep throwing it out there. What we should do is tax the wealthy less and tax the poor more.

Because the ones paying Federal Income Tax aren't exempt from paying all those other taxes too. My god man use your head.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Ahahahahaa......So what do we do then with the person who did just that, took the risk of investment, and then lost the investment? Just say no when he or she applies for SS when they turn 65 and have nothing?

Now if you had said savings account instead of investment, that would make more sense.

Why do you presume that just becaue we turn 65 we need to stop working?

Excellent point, some people may love their job too much to want to retire. There is no limit to the amount of knowledge and personal experience they can bring to the younger generation.

 

[Spiderman]

Really? That bad?

Because I see a program that keeps an estimated 14-22 million (mostly elderly) above the poverty line (depending on whom you ask).

The program assists widows and their kids in making ends meet.

It helps the disabled survive.

You don't pay payroll taxes? You must be a state employee...a public school teacher covered by a collectively bargained retirement plan? Well done. Or you're part of the clergy. No disrespect Father.

If you took the money taken from people for SS and the employer match and held it in a private account for the length of a working career and you would have a real nest egg

And since I am on no one's payroll I do not pay payroll taxes. All my income is taxed as ordinary income and therefore not subject to payroll taxes.

You might want to learn a little bit about the tax code if you're going to make assumptions like the ones in your post.

You're probably right about me. I always have a lot to learn. If you are a sole proprietor, as you intimate, you still pay FICA. And if you aren't paying FICA, you'll get caught. Why don't you just tell everyone what sort of a business entity you have? There are very few exceptions to the payroll tax.

I'm not a sole proprietor. One has to be a special kind of idiot to run a business as a sole proprietor.

My income comes from rental properties. The rent is paid to an S corp by my tenants. I take my income as distributions from the S corp as the sole stock holder. These distributions are not subject to payroll taxes.

I am not counted as an employee therefore all my income is reported on a K1 form not a W2 form

Your nest egg scenario sounds good on paper but in reality it's a loser. First of all, you lose a large portion of your benefits to administrative costs (even if you run your own brokerage account and SS admin costs are minute), second, the boys on wall street cull all investments of up to 40% of the value every few years or so, and last, SS is social insurance. You are your brother's keeper b/c it makes for a stronger society. Your way is a dead end to the poor house b/c it is not as reliable as social insurance for benefits paid..

Administration costs are minimal. If you're buying mutual funds there are plenty of low cost and no load funds available. If you manage them yourself there are no brokerage fees.

You can buy stocks on line for a few dollars a trade. And again there are no brokerage commissions if you don't use a broker. If you must hire a financial planner then hire a for fee only planner who does not take a slice of your portfolio every year.

The stock market since it's inception has returned an average of 10% even with the ups and downs. There is no culling.

What you haven't seemed to learn yet is that anyone offering you a guarantee is offering you a guaranteed loss.

!5% of one's lifetime income prudently and safely invested will allow one to live on substantially more than the SS max payment of 2500 a month.

You are being robbed of your financial independence by the government and you don't even know it.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

That's all terrific and those are words to live by. How does any of the things you've mentioned change the fact that the super-vast majority of people in the US are part of Labor and not part of the entreprenurial class?

You and I part ways on your reductionist closing. Complainers and Achievers? You do know that Labor does all of the productive work - the heavy lifting so to speak? Without Labor, you have empty factories, vacant restaurants, and practically every other economic pursuit under the sun is dead in the water. Your implicit shot at Labor (complainers) falls on deaf ears. Look at the numbers. The owners of this country have seen their wealth go through the roof over the decades. And Labor? 45 million of them can't even get a decent health insurance plan.

I shed no tears for the wealthy. They don't need me...except to do the work from which they prosper quite well.

This is all a part of the choices we make for ourselves, the lifestyle we are willing to build for ourselves. Do you expect me to look to the individual who chooses to work at a fast food chain as a manager and say that "I" should have more of an understanding for those decisions they make? Should their compensation between them and that of an educated experience level of a surgeon be less of a salary gap? Just how are we to determine someone's pay scale if not based on education and skill level? I'm not willing to pay someone a salary of $70,000 for flipping burgers, sorry. If you desire to make a better life for yourself, then stop with the wallowing sad story, and work to achieve a salaried job you are happy with.

I also see that you are unwilling to demonstrate exactly how a business "ought" to be run through your demonstration of 'good faith' as owner. Why should such an opportunity discourage you, if all the tools to learn how to attain and run a business are there? Why stop at simply being among the labor force, and not strive for something that is more gratifying to your cause?

You've made an excellent case for Universal Healthcare. Under that scenario, the burger flipper is covered and the private owner is free to pursue profit. The risk is shared universally and payments for coverage are buttressed by our monetarily sovereign federal government.

Again, Labor is necessary to all production. Labor is comprised of practically all americans. We need solutions, not complaints about the costs of coverage. And as you inferred, Universal Healthcare coverage would ameliorate both matters quite well.

I think you've mistaken the need of the individual to assume personal responsibliity for their own decisions in determining where they are in life, for the need to assimilate as part of a collective towards socialized medicine. Whether a person succeeds or fails in life is directly dependent upon the choices they make. There is nothing wrong when someone "fails" at achieving after certain goals in life, as failure in itself can become the best educator to those not afraid to face it. When we allow someone else [government] to make those choices for us, we become enslaved to the reality of someone else determining the outcome of our lives for us. Coincidently, if you think people can't be denied treatment for the sake of saving on costs for the benefit of the "whole", you haven't researched into the effects socialized medicine has on those who already live under its system - like those of Great Britain under NHS.

 

[RightDown]

If you took the money taken from people for SS and the employer match and held it in a private account for the length of a working career and you would have a real nest egg

And since I am on no one's payroll I do not pay payroll taxes. All my income is taxed as ordinary income and therefore not subject to payroll taxes.

You might want to learn a little bit about the tax code if you're going to make assumptions like the ones in your post.

You're probably right about me. I always have a lot to learn. If you are a sole proprietor, as you intimate, you still pay FICA. And if you aren't paying FICA, you'll get caught. Why don't you just tell everyone what sort of a business entity you have? There are very few exceptions to the payroll tax.

I'm not a sole proprietor. One has to be a special kind of idiot to run a business as a sole proprietor.

My income comes from rental properties. The rent is paid to an S corp by my tenants. I take my income as distributions from the S corp as the sole stock holder. These distributions are not subject to payroll taxes.

I am not counted as an employee therefore all my income is reported on a K1 form not a W2 form

Your nest egg scenario sounds good on paper but in reality it's a loser. First of all, you lose a large portion of your benefits to administrative costs (even if you run your own brokerage account and SS admin costs are minute), second, the boys on wall street cull all investments of up to 40% of the value every few years or so, and last, SS is social insurance. You are your brother's keeper b/c it makes for a stronger society. Your way is a dead end to the poor house b/c it is not as reliable as social insurance for benefits paid..

Administration costs are minimal. If you're buying mutual funds there are plenty of low cost and no load funds available. If you manage them yourself there are no brokerage fees.

You can buy stocks on line for a few dollars a trade. And again there are no brokerage commissions if you don't use a broker. If you must hire a financial planner then hire a for fee only planner who does not take a slice of your portfolio every year.

The stock market since it's inception has returned an average of 10% even with the ups and downs. There is no culling.

What you haven't seemed to learn yet is that anyone offering you a guarantee is offering you a guaranteed loss.

!5% of one's lifetime income prudently and safely invested will allow one to live on substantially more than the SS max payment of 2500 a month.

You are being robbed of your financial independence by the government and you don't even know it.

What's with all the hostility towards Sole Props? There're something like almost 20 million sole proprietorships in the US. And according to you, they are all idiots and you are the smart one.

So you have an Scorp set up to collect your rental incomes. Why not an LLC taxed as an S-corp? Its cheaper, less of an administrative hassle and offers as good protection. I have an LLC for my rental properties.

You don't need an S-corp to avoid paying FICA on rental income. Rental income is passive income and by defintion not subject to FICA. Unearned income is not subject to FICA. Only earned income must pay FICA.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of market returns based on averages. Retire during a bear market where the market has collapsed (the last being in 2008) and all americans lost on average 37% of their tax qualified nestegg. No lumpsums paid out there I'm afraid. And if you didn't lose it all, you can recover those assets, as you've pointed out, if you live long enough. And also, SS is a pay as you go form of social insurance that guarantees payment of benefits. In the long history of SS, a payment has never been missed.

Not everyone has your expertise at investing. That's why we have social insurance.

The market, with its average return, is still nothing more than legalized gambling where insiders hold all the cards and average joes like you and me are given a taste until the rug is pulled out. That's why I own real property. I don't trust the market. I've seen too many people lose too many dollars playing that parlor game.

 

[RightDown]

This is all a part of the choices we make for ourselves, the lifestyle we are willing to build for ourselves. Do you expect me to look to the individual who chooses to work at a fast food chain as a manager and say that "I" should have more of an understanding for those decisions they make? Should their compensation between them and that of an educated experience level of a surgeon be less of a salary gap? Just how are we to determine someone's pay scale if not based on education and skill level? I'm not willing to pay someone a salary of $70,000 for flipping burgers, sorry. If you desire to make a better life for yourself, then stop with the wallowing sad story, and work to achieve a salaried job you are happy with.

I also see that you are unwilling to demonstrate exactly how a business "ought" to be run through your demonstration of 'good faith' as owner. Why should such an opportunity discourage you, if all the tools to learn how to attain and run a business are there? Why stop at simply being among the labor force, and not strive for something that is more gratifying to your cause?

You've made an excellent case for Universal Healthcare. Under that scenario, the burger flipper is covered and the private owner is free to pursue profit. The risk is shared universally and payments for coverage are buttressed by our monetarily sovereign federal government.

Again, Labor is necessary to all production. Labor is comprised of practically all americans. We need solutions, not complaints about the costs of coverage. And as you inferred, Universal Healthcare coverage would ameliorate both matters quite well.

I think you've mistaken the need of the individual to assume personal responsibliity for their own decisions in determining where they are in life, for the need to assimilate as part of a collective towards socialized medicine. Whether a person succeeds or fails in life is directly dependent upon the choices they make. There is nothing wrong when someone "fails" at achieving after certain goals in life, as failure in itself can become the best educator to those not afraid to face it. When we allow someone else [government] to make those choices for us, we become enslaved to the reality of someone else determining the outcome of our lives for us. Coincidently, if you think people can't be denied treatment for the sake of saving on costs for the benefit of the "whole", you haven't researched into the effects socialized medicine has on those who already live under its system - like those of Great Britain under NHS.

You can't reduce life's vicisstudes down to merely choices. Let's expand that effort a bit- person / talent, place and time. Choices are made contextually. Sometimes there are limited people and limited circumstances. I don't think watching someone crash and burn because they do not have the financial circumstances to afford healthcare makes them deserve their fate any more than the Paris Hilton's of the world being born to generational wealth.

Canada's health insurance is universal and eminently superior to our brand of insurance. Everyone's covered by the same insurance guaranteeing superior coverage..after all, if the wealthy have the same coverage as the poor...they wouldn't settle for less.

If Universal healthcare is slavery in your books, I'll gladly tow those chains for the rest of my days. It's certainly preferable to the current form of slavery in our country..the one that fashions opinion to serve the plutocracy. That is an insidious whorish slavery...and it is quite rampant.

 

[Spiderman]

You're probably right about me. I always have a lot to learn. If you are a sole proprietor, as you intimate, you still pay FICA. And if you aren't paying FICA, you'll get caught. Why don't you just tell everyone what sort of a business entity you have? There are very few exceptions to the payroll tax.

I'm not a sole proprietor. One has to be a special kind of idiot to run a business as a sole proprietor.

My income comes from rental properties. The rent is paid to an S corp by my tenants. I take my income as distributions from the S corp as the sole stock holder. These distributions are not subject to payroll taxes.

I am not counted as an employee therefore all my income is reported on a K1 form not a W2 form

Your nest egg scenario sounds good on paper but in reality it's a loser. First of all, you lose a large portion of your benefits to administrative costs (even if you run your own brokerage account and SS admin costs are minute), second, the boys on wall street cull all investments of up to 40% of the value every few years or so, and last, SS is social insurance. You are your brother's keeper b/c it makes for a stronger society. Your way is a dead end to the poor house b/c it is not as reliable as social insurance for benefits paid..

Administration costs are minimal. If you're buying mutual funds there are plenty of low cost and no load funds available. If you manage them yourself there are no brokerage fees.

You can buy stocks on line for a few dollars a trade. And again there are no brokerage commissions if you don't use a broker. If you must hire a financial planner then hire a for fee only planner who does not take a slice of your portfolio every year.

The stock market since it's inception has returned an average of 10% even with the ups and downs. There is no culling.

What you haven't seemed to learn yet is that anyone offering you a guarantee is offering you a guaranteed loss.

!5% of one's lifetime income prudently and safely invested will allow one to live on substantially more than the SS max payment of 2500 a month.

You are being robbed of your financial independence by the government and you don't even know it.

What's with all the hostility towards Sole Props? There're something like almost 20 million sole proprietorships in the US. And according to you, they are all idiots and you are the smart one.

Being a sole proprietor one risks all his personal property if his business is sued. One pays the self employment tax.

Anyone who does those things is an idiot.

So you have an Scorp set up to collect your rental incomes. Why not an LLC taxed as an S-corp? Its cheaper, less of an administrative hassle and offers as good protection. I have an LLC for my rental properties.

I have other interests as well. An S corp suited my needs better.

You don't need an S-corp to avoid paying FICA on rental income. Rental income is passive income and by defintion not subject to FICA. Unearned income is not subject to FICA. Only earned income must pay FICA.

LLCs and S corps give you protection. My tenants cannot sue me personally thus I and my private property are protected.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of market returns based on averages. Retire during a bear market where the market has collapsed (the last being in 2008) and all americans lost on average 37% of their tax qualified nestegg. No lumpsums paid out there I'm afraid. And if you didn't lose it all, you can recover those assets, as you've pointed out, if you live long enough. And also, SS is a pay as you go form of social insurance that guarantees payment of benefits. In the long history of SS, a payment has never been missed.

And if they left their money in the market instead of cashing out they would have gotten everything back and then some wouldn't they?

Not everyone has your expertise at investing. That's why we have social insurance.

You don't have to be an expert. You can go on line and get a copy of the portfolio warren Buffet uses and copy that.

The market, with its average return, is still nothing more than legalized gambling where insiders hold all the cards and average joes like you and me are given a taste until the rug is pulled out. That's why I own real property. I don't trust the market. I've seen too many people lose too many dollars playing that parlor game.

I never gamble in the market. I have yet to lose money in the market.

It's more dangerous driving to the super market than it is investing.

 

[RightDown]

I'm not a sole proprietor. One has to be a special kind of idiot to run a business as a sole proprietor.

My income comes from rental properties. The rent is paid to an S corp by my tenants. I take my income as distributions from the S corp as the sole stock holder. These distributions are not subject to payroll taxes.

I am not counted as an employee therefore all my income is reported on a K1 form not a W2 form



Administration costs are minimal. If you're buying mutual funds there are plenty of low cost and no load funds available. If you manage them yourself there are no brokerage fees.

You can buy stocks on line for a few dollars a trade. And again there are no brokerage commissions if you don't use a broker. If you must hire a financial planner then hire a for fee only planner who does not take a slice of your portfolio every year.

The stock market since it's inception has returned an average of 10% even with the ups and downs. There is no culling.

What you haven't seemed to learn yet is that anyone offering you a guarantee is offering you a guaranteed loss.

!5% of one's lifetime income prudently and safely invested will allow one to live on substantially more than the SS max payment of 2500 a month.

You are being robbed of your financial independence by the government and you don't even know it.

What's with all the hostility towards Sole Props? There're something like almost 20 million sole proprietorships in the US. And according to you, they are all idiots and you are the smart one.

Being a sole proprietor one risks all his personal property if his business is sued. One pays the self employment tax.

Anyone who does those things is an idiot.



I have other interests as well. An S corp suited my needs better.



LLCs and S corps give you protection. My tenants cannot sue me personally thus I and my private property are protected.



And if they left their money in the market instead of cashing out they would have gotten everything back and then some wouldn't they?

Not everyone has your expertise at investing. That's why we have social insurance.

You don't have to be an expert. You can go on line and get a copy of the portfolio warren Buffet uses and copy that.

The market, with its average return, is still nothing more than legalized gambling where insiders hold all the cards and average joes like you and me are given a taste until the rug is pulled out. That's why I own real property. I don't trust the market. I've seen too many people lose too many dollars playing that parlor game.

I never gamble in the market. I have yet to lose money in the market.

It's more dangerous driving to the super market than it is investing.

Scorps are pass through entities for earned income just like sole proprietorships. But you are correct, there is no corporate veil of protection. But then again many businesses carry insurance for those contingencies.

As for the market, there are funds indexed to the entire S&P or whichever market you prefer. But again, what good is that to someone retiring in a bear market where almost half the equity was sponged away by the ne'erdowells on Wall street? The retiree needs that money today and cannot leave the entire trust corpus 'as is' in the hopes of some recovery down the road. Believe me, I've seen this a hundred times in my line of work. You might not have that problem b/c you are a smart investor.

You intimate that investing is easy bc anyone could follow Warren Buffet's own portfolio. That simple statement is culled from years of experience on your part. Let me put it this way, think of how stupid the average person is and realize that half the people out there are dumber than him. Many americans lack the intelligence and sophistication to operate an investment portfolio. And even if they could, the meager wages paid to rank and file workers today go only so far when paying, life insurance premiums, health insurance premiums, car insurance premiums, home insurance premiums, dental and vision, 401k / Roth deferrals, car maintenance, food, clothing, etc., etc., and these people are supposed to have enough disposable income left over to gamble on the market? Have you seen the income numbers for rank and file workers over the years?

There's a reason that we have an investor class and everbody else. In the words of George Bailey. "Potter's not selling, he's buying." That's true today.

 

[RightDown]

Not to put too fine a point on this but I would wager that most americans think that Warren Buffet is the guy who sings 'Margaritaville.'

 

[Spiderman]

What's with all the hostility towards Sole Props? There're something like almost 20 million sole proprietorships in the US. And according to you, they are all idiots and you are the smart one.

Being a sole proprietor one risks all his personal property if his business is sued. One pays the self employment tax.

Anyone who does those things is an idiot.



I have other interests as well. An S corp suited my needs better.



LLCs and S corps give you protection. My tenants cannot sue me personally thus I and my private property are protected.



And if they left their money in the market instead of cashing out they would have gotten everything back and then some wouldn't they?



You don't have to be an expert. You can go on line and get a copy of the portfolio warren Buffet uses and copy that.

The market, with its average return, is still nothing more than legalized gambling where insiders hold all the cards and average joes like you and me are given a taste until the rug is pulled out. That's why I own real property. I don't trust the market. I've seen too many people lose too many dollars playing that parlor game.

I never gamble in the market. I have yet to lose money in the market.

It's more dangerous driving to the super market than it is investing.

Scorps are pass through entities for earned income just like sole proprietorships. But you are correct, there is no corporate veil of protection. But then again many businesses carry insurance for those contingencies.

As for the market, there are funds indexed to the entire S&P or whichever market you prefer. But again, what good is that to someone retiring in a bear market where almost half the equity was sponged away by the ne'erdowells on Wall street? The retiree needs that money today and cannot leave the entire trust corpus 'as is' in the hopes of some recovery down the road. Believe me, I've seen this a hundred times in my line of work. You might not have that problem b/c you are a smart investor.

You intimate that investing is easy bc anyone could follow Warren Buffet's own portfolio. That simple statement is culled from years of experience on your part. Let me put it this way, think of how stupid the average person is and realize that half the people out there are dumber than him. Many americans lack the intelligence and sophistication to operate an investment portfolio. And even if they could, the meager wages paid to rank and file workers today go only so far when paying, life insurance premiums, health insurance premiums, car insurance premiums, home insurance premiums, dental and vision, 401k / Roth deferrals, car maintenance, food, clothing, etc., etc., and these people are supposed to have enough disposable income left over to gamble on the market? Have you seen the income numbers for rank and file workers over the years?

There's a reason that we have an investor class and everbody else. In the words of George Bailey. "Potter's not selling, he's buying." That's true today.

Take a minute to learn about investment strategy.

In the years immediately prior to retirement one needs to change the balance in a portfolio.

IOW switch from a capital appreciation strategy to a capital preservation strategy.

It's not as hard as you think.

I'm not talking about disposable income here either I'm talking about the employee and employer payroll taxes that are already not part of one's disposable income. Using that 15% of income and saving it in a different manner other than in a government program would yield far better results and allow people to live much better in retirement.

What I hear you saying is that because some or most people won't take the time to learn how to handle their own money that everyone must be forced to give up their financial independence.

 

[zeke]

Spider, you may need new advice on how to structure your rental property holdings. Spend a few minutes on Google with the query of; rental properties and S corps.

One in particular stuck out, the top 10 reasons not to use an S corp for Real Estate. Interesting reading.

But then again. Why bother. You already say you know it all.

 

[Spiderman]

Spider, you may need new advice on how to structure your rental property holdings. Spend a few minutes on Google with the query of; rental properties and S corps.

One in particular stuck out, the top 10 reasons not to use an S corp for Real Estate. Interesting reading.

But then again. Why bother. You already say you know it all.

I have other interests as I said and I'm not going to go into the details of my finances with you.

And I by no means know it all I never said I did. But I certainly know that Social Security is a sure fire way to have less not more.

 

[RightDown]

Being a sole proprietor one risks all his personal property if his business is sued. One pays the self employment tax.

Anyone who does those things is an idiot.



I have other interests as well. An S corp suited my needs better.



LLCs and S corps give you protection. My tenants cannot sue me personally thus I and my private property are protected.



And if they left their money in the market instead of cashing out they would have gotten everything back and then some wouldn't they?



You don't have to be an expert. You can go on line and get a copy of the portfolio warren Buffet uses and copy that.



I never gamble in the market. I have yet to lose money in the market.

It's more dangerous driving to the super market than it is investing.

Scorps are pass through entities for earned income just like sole proprietorships. But you are correct, there is no corporate veil of protection. But then again many businesses carry insurance for those contingencies.

As for the market, there are funds indexed to the entire S&P or whichever market you prefer. But again, what good is that to someone retiring in a bear market where almost half the equity was sponged away by the ne'erdowells on Wall street? The retiree needs that money today and cannot leave the entire trust corpus 'as is' in the hopes of some recovery down the road. Believe me, I've seen this a hundred times in my line of work. You might not have that problem b/c you are a smart investor.

You intimate that investing is easy bc anyone could follow Warren Buffet's own portfolio. That simple statement is culled from years of experience on your part. Let me put it this way, think of how stupid the average person is and realize that half the people out there are dumber than him. Many americans lack the intelligence and sophistication to operate an investment portfolio. And even if they could, the meager wages paid to rank and file workers today go only so far when paying, life insurance premiums, health insurance premiums, car insurance premiums, home insurance premiums, dental and vision, 401k / Roth deferrals, car maintenance, food, clothing, etc., etc., and these people are supposed to have enough disposable income left over to gamble on the market? Have you seen the income numbers for rank and file workers over the years?

There's a reason that we have an investor class and everbody else. In the words of George Bailey. "Potter's not selling, he's buying." That's true today.

Take a minute to learn about investment strategy.

In the years immediately prior to retirement one needs to change the balance in a portfolio.

IOW switch from a capital appreciation strategy to a capital preservation strategy.

It's not as hard as you think.

I'm not talking about disposable income here either I'm talking about the employee and employer payroll taxes that are already not part of one's disposable income. Using that 15% of income and saving it in a different manner other than in a government program would yield far better results and allow people to live much better in retirement.

What I hear you saying is that because some or most people won't take the time to learn how to handle their own money that everyone must be forced to give up their financial independence.

In the years prior to retirement, it doesn't matter what you balance if 40% of your equity is swept away in a matter of days.

Investing in the market is not a big deal to me b/c I don't do it. I almost started an investment company a few years ago predicated on stock options. Then I came to my senses and put an end to that crazy endeavor.

Here you go again denigrating the most wildly successful social insurance program in history: Social Security. SS is not and never has been a wealth creating device. It is social insurance b/c it is always reliable having never missed a benefit payment ever.

How you can claim with a straight face that investing in the Wall St. Casino is much better b/c you just might hit the jackpot is beyond me.

Again, Social Security is rock solid benefit payments. No risk. Wall Street is risky and people have lost their shirts and retirements. Maybe you remember the REITs that were the safest investment outside of T-bills. Those went belly up with much of the US market and there was not a damn thing you or anyone could have done about it b/c Wall St criminalized that investment and got away with the crime.

I'm sorry that you think Social Security is robbing you of your financial independence. That strikes me as hyperbole. You are getting or will get a SS benefit b/c at some point in your life you had W2 income. And since you don't pay FICA now b/c you are paid solely by passive income, what are you complaining about?

You see the millions of widows and children and disabled helped by SS and that bothers you to no end as an attack on your financial independence?

You and I are very different people.

 

[Spiderman]

Scorps are pass through entities for earned income just like sole proprietorships. But you are correct, there is no corporate veil of protection. But then again many businesses carry insurance for those contingencies.

As for the market, there are funds indexed to the entire S&P or whichever market you prefer. But again, what good is that to someone retiring in a bear market where almost half the equity was sponged away by the ne'erdowells on Wall street? The retiree needs that money today and cannot leave the entire trust corpus 'as is' in the hopes of some recovery down the road. Believe me, I've seen this a hundred times in my line of work. You might not have that problem b/c you are a smart investor.

You intimate that investing is easy bc anyone could follow Warren Buffet's own portfolio. That simple statement is culled from years of experience on your part. Let me put it this way, think of how stupid the average person is and realize that half the people out there are dumber than him. Many americans lack the intelligence and sophistication to operate an investment portfolio. And even if they could, the meager wages paid to rank and file workers today go only so far when paying, life insurance premiums, health insurance premiums, car insurance premiums, home insurance premiums, dental and vision, 401k / Roth deferrals, car maintenance, food, clothing, etc., etc., and these people are supposed to have enough disposable income left over to gamble on the market? Have you seen the income numbers for rank and file workers over the years?

There's a reason that we have an investor class and everbody else. In the words of George Bailey. "Potter's not selling, he's buying." That's true today.

Take a minute to learn about investment strategy.

In the years immediately prior to retirement one needs to change the balance in a portfolio.

IOW switch from a capital appreciation strategy to a capital preservation strategy.

It's not as hard as you think.

I'm not talking about disposable income here either I'm talking about the employee and employer payroll taxes that are already not part of one's disposable income. Using that 15% of income and saving it in a different manner other than in a government program would yield far better results and allow people to live much better in retirement.

What I hear you saying is that because some or most people won't take the time to learn how to handle their own money that everyone must be forced to give up their financial independence.

In the years prior to retirement, it doesn't matter what you balance if 40% of your equity is swept away in a matter of days.

Investing in the market is not a big deal to me b/c I don't do it. I almost started an investment company a few years ago predicated on stock options. Then I came to my senses and put an end to that crazy endeavor.

Here you go again denigrating the most wildly successful social insurance program in history: Social Security. SS is not and never has been a wealth creating device. It is social insurance b/c it is always reliable having never missed a benefit payment ever.

How you can claim with a straight face that investing in the Wall St. Casino is much better b/c you just might hit the jackpot is beyond me.

Again, Social Security is rock solid benefit payments. No risk. Wall Street is risky and people have lost their shirts and retirements. Maybe you remember the REITs that were the safest investment outside of T-bills. Those went belly up with much of the US market and there was not a damn thing you or anyone could have done about it b/c Wall St criminalized that investment and got away with the crime.

I'm sorry that you think Social Security is robbing you of your financial independence. That strikes me as hyperbole. You are getting or will get a SS benefit b/c at some point in your life you had W2 income. And since you don't pay FICA now b/c you are paid solely by passive income, what are you complaining about?

You see the millions of widows and children and disabled helped by SS and that bothers you to no end as an attack on your financial independence?

You and I are very different people.

If you had most of your assets in income funds and bonds then the temporary loss of 40% (and it's not really a loss unless you cashed out ) all was returned and then some.

Yeah I guess we are different. I expect people to be responsible

 

[Foxfyre]

Take a minute to learn about investment strategy.

In the years immediately prior to retirement one needs to change the balance in a portfolio.

IOW switch from a capital appreciation strategy to a capital preservation strategy.

It's not as hard as you think.

I'm not talking about disposable income here either I'm talking about the employee and employer payroll taxes that are already not part of one's disposable income. Using that 15% of income and saving it in a different manner other than in a government program would yield far better results and allow people to live much better in retirement.

What I hear you saying is that because some or most people won't take the time to learn how to handle their own money that everyone must be forced to give up their financial independence.

In the years prior to retirement, it doesn't matter what you balance if 40% of your equity is swept away in a matter of days.

Investing in the market is not a big deal to me b/c I don't do it. I almost started an investment company a few years ago predicated on stock options. Then I came to my senses and put an end to that crazy endeavor.

Here you go again denigrating the most wildly successful social insurance program in history: Social Security. SS is not and never has been a wealth creating device. It is social insurance b/c it is always reliable having never missed a benefit payment ever.

How you can claim with a straight face that investing in the Wall St. Casino is much better b/c you just might hit the jackpot is beyond me.

Again, Social Security is rock solid benefit payments. No risk. Wall Street is risky and people have lost their shirts and retirements. Maybe you remember the REITs that were the safest investment outside of T-bills. Those went belly up with much of the US market and there was not a damn thing you or anyone could have done about it b/c Wall St criminalized that investment and got away with the crime.

I'm sorry that you think Social Security is robbing you of your financial independence. That strikes me as hyperbole. You are getting or will get a SS benefit b/c at some point in your life you had W2 income. And since you don't pay FICA now b/c you are paid solely by passive income, what are you complaining about?

You see the millions of widows and children and disabled helped by SS and that bothers you to no end as an attack on your financial independence?

You and I are very different people.

If you had most of your assets in income funds and bonds then the temporary loss of 40% (and it's not really a loss unless you cashed out ) all was returned and then some.

Yeah I guess we are different. I expect people to be responsible

And even if they aren't, liberty allows people the luxury of making mistakes or being stupid. To deny them that right requires far more government reach and authority than what the Founders intended. You cannot have government provide every kind of security for you without losing precious liberties and without limiting the options, choices, and opportunities that are available to a free people.

 

[RightDown]

Take a minute to learn about investment strategy.

In the years immediately prior to retirement one needs to change the balance in a portfolio.

IOW switch from a capital appreciation strategy to a capital preservation strategy.

It's not as hard as you think.

I'm not talking about disposable income here either I'm talking about the employee and employer payroll taxes that are already not part of one's disposable income. Using that 15% of income and saving it in a different manner other than in a government program would yield far better results and allow people to live much better in retirement.

What I hear you saying is that because some or most people won't take the time to learn how to handle their own money that everyone must be forced to give up their financial independence.

In the years prior to retirement, it doesn't matter what you balance if 40% of your equity is swept away in a matter of days.

Investing in the market is not a big deal to me b/c I don't do it. I almost started an investment company a few years ago predicated on stock options. Then I came to my senses and put an end to that crazy endeavor.

Here you go again denigrating the most wildly successful social insurance program in history: Social Security. SS is not and never has been a wealth creating device. It is social insurance b/c it is always reliable having never missed a benefit payment ever.

How you can claim with a straight face that investing in the Wall St. Casino is much better b/c you just might hit the jackpot is beyond me.

Again, Social Security is rock solid benefit payments. No risk. Wall Street is risky and people have lost their shirts and retirements. Maybe you remember the REITs that were the safest investment outside of T-bills. Those went belly up with much of the US market and there was not a damn thing you or anyone could have done about it b/c Wall St criminalized that investment and got away with the crime.

I'm sorry that you think Social Security is robbing you of your financial independence. That strikes me as hyperbole. You are getting or will get a SS benefit b/c at some point in your life you had W2 income. And since you don't pay FICA now b/c you are paid solely by passive income, what are you complaining about?

You see the millions of widows and children and disabled helped by SS and that bothers you to no end as an attack on your financial independence?

You and I are very different people.

If you had most of your assets in income funds and bonds then the temporary loss of 40% (and it's not really a loss unless you cashed out ) all was returned and then some.

Yeah I guess we are different. I expect people to be responsible

Again, the normal form of distribution in the super vast majority of retirement plans is only Lump Sum. You don't have a choice if you need your money to live. And most retirees do. You have the luxury of leaving the funds in the tax deferred trust to grow back. And your hindsight is wondefully 100%.

What on god's green earth does responsibility have to do with Wall street stealing retirement plan assets? What does it have to do with the father killed in a car accident on his way to work leaving a family of 3 or 4 or 5 behind needing social security to make ends meet?

Do you think you're bullet proof? You're not. And just because you hold your real estate in an Scorp doesn't mean squat to a qualified attorney who can pierce that corporate veil faster than you can say 'income redistribution."

Your answers serve your narrow purpose which seems to be, its all about you and your money. Hey it's a free country. I just think there's more to all of this than my own welfare.

 

[RightDown]

In the years prior to retirement, it doesn't matter what you balance if 40% of your equity is swept away in a matter of days.

Investing in the market is not a big deal to me b/c I don't do it. I almost started an investment company a few years ago predicated on stock options. Then I came to my senses and put an end to that crazy endeavor.

Here you go again denigrating the most wildly successful social insurance program in history: Social Security. SS is not and never has been a wealth creating device. It is social insurance b/c it is always reliable having never missed a benefit payment ever.

How you can claim with a straight face that investing in the Wall St. Casino is much better b/c you just might hit the jackpot is beyond me.

Again, Social Security is rock solid benefit payments. No risk. Wall Street is risky and people have lost their shirts and retirements. Maybe you remember the REITs that were the safest investment outside of T-bills. Those went belly up with much of the US market and there was not a damn thing you or anyone could have done about it b/c Wall St criminalized that investment and got away with the crime.

I'm sorry that you think Social Security is robbing you of your financial independence. That strikes me as hyperbole. You are getting or will get a SS benefit b/c at some point in your life you had W2 income. And since you don't pay FICA now b/c you are paid solely by passive income, what are you complaining about?

You see the millions of widows and children and disabled helped by SS and that bothers you to no end as an attack on your financial independence?

You and I are very different people.

If you had most of your assets in income funds and bonds then the temporary loss of 40% (and it's not really a loss unless you cashed out ) all was returned and then some.

Yeah I guess we are different. I expect people to be responsible

And even if they aren't, liberty allows people the luxury of making mistakes or being stupid. To deny them that right requires far more government reach and authority than what the Founders intended. You cannot have government provide every kind of security for you without losing precious liberties and without limiting the options, choices, and opportunities that are available to a free people.

Really? That's what the Founders intended? Even if true, then it must be correct. After all, why would slave owners devalue human life for the sake of their own freedom?

Those words of 'freedom to fail' mean so much to the widow with children to feed. "Hey, you did not plan well enough, it's dying time b/c you are free to fail!"

I don't mean to be snide but I really can't understand what makes you tick.

 

[Avatar4321]

What's with all the hostility towards Sole Props? There're something like almost 20 million sole proprietorships in the US. And according to you, they are all idiots and you are the smart one.

With all the liabilities of sole prop, why would anyone who is serious about their business not organize another type of company?

 

[RightDown]

What's with all the hostility towards Sole Props? There're something like almost 20 million sole proprietorships in the US. And according to you, they are all idiots and you are the smart one.

With all the liabilities of sole prop, why would anyone who is serious about their business not organize another type of company?

Insurance. E&O and product liability insurance is easy and serves the same function as a separate business entity for the very small business person. No need for a sole prop to get into corps or LLCs.

S-corps are burdensome. And LLCs can cost several hundred bucks to set up plus there is an administrative burden.