The Truth about Mormons

[Truthspeaker]

It does little to convince an unbeliever to quote the Book Of Mormon or any documents from the Mormons, except to show what they are saying. When discussing with an unbeliever find common ground and work from there. Christians that are not Mormons believe in the Bible. Use the Bible to make the point.

I am not here to Bible bash with people. that has gotten debaters of religion nowhere through the course of history. I am here to help clear up misconceptions about the church and answer questions. If people want to really know what we believe, then I can't avoid quotes from the book of mormon

 

[Truthspeaker]

But you're already dead. How can you be baptized if you're already dead?

Great question. Baptisms for the dead are performed by the living in lieu of the dead. For example, I was baptized for a man named John Smith who lived in 1790. I was immersed in the water and then John, witnessing the act from the spirit world, or the other side of the veil, has the choice to accept the baptism or reject it, having been taught the gospel on the other side the same way it is done here. It is a very forward doctrine but I believe it whole heartedly.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Having been raised a mormon, it's just like any other messed up organized religion, just in different ways.

You can help yourself by saying how we are so "messed up" so I can answer you.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Another question. To whom do you owe allegiance, the Mormon church or the US government in those issues that conflict?

It is not a matter of allegiance with me. It is a matter of conscience. Fortunately my conscience agrees with the church so far when the two disagree

 

[Truthspeaker]

i have questions:

is it true that woman must be married to enter heaven?

is it true that mormons become "god like" upon there deaths in their heaven?

how accurate is "big love" on hbo about mormons?

o and i have noticed you really havent answered anyones questions..

why not explain the "blessed" undergarments?

After I went to sleep last night asking for questions, You all have surely not disappointed, which I appreciate. So please be patient if I can't be on here 24-7. It doesn't mean I am not going to answer questions just because I don't live on here.

1.Alright lets go with the first one here. It is not true in the official doctrine that a woman needs to be married to anyone in order to go to heaven. That is false doctrine.

2. I am not quite sure what you mean by "god-like" but I can tell you that we will be ressurected with an immortal physical and perfect body, like God has. But will not become Gods at the ressurection.

3. I have not seen the show, but apparently from the weird title and the fact that HBO airs it, I am skeptical as to it's accuracy.

4.If you haven't noticed me answer anyones questions then that is quite a blanket statement since I immediately answered a very complex question from the first poster about the jaredite barges and orgin of native americans rather quickly. I have answered questions several times before yours if you care to observe. As per my aforementioned life outside of the computer I only just now got the chance to respond to the "magic underwear" comment which term we find quite offensive and inacurate that they would be called such a disrespectful name.

 

[RodISHI]

I will say that is quite an interpretation of the scriptures but that is not the issue of the forum, to take away your opinion. You are totally entitled. I don't claim to have all the answers, but I feel the church has provided me with all the answers to questions I need to know.
I agree that the Spirit, if one is truly worthy to be governed by it, will verify the truth of a teaching to a person.
The church of Philadelphia is the way, the truth and the life? Ok, you are entitled to your opinion.

It is not just simply my opinion what I said is already written in the Bible and the Torah. My opinion is I would rather the Holy Spirit teach me than a man who simply listens to a man made church of any kind and men/women teaching from their own precepts. That is not to say each church does not have a place.

You have answered certain questions in this thread yet that is not what many have heard from Mormon's over the years. Some Mormons take a stance that it is okay to cheat a nonmormon/what they call gentiles. So the "truth about Mormons" can only be determine by each individual as is the same case for any religious affiliation a person may have.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

After I went to sleep last night asking for questions, You all have surely not disappointed, which I appreciate. So please be patient if I can't be on here 24-7. It doesn't mean I am not going to answer questions just because I don't live on here.

1.Alright lets go with the first one here. It is not true in the official doctrine that a woman needs to be married to anyone in order to go to heaven. That is false doctrine.

2. I am not quite sure what you mean by "god-like" but I can tell you that we will be ressurected with an immortal physical and perfect body, like God has. But will not become Gods at the ressurection.

3. I have not seen the show, but apparently from the weird title and the fact that HBO airs it, I am skeptical as to it's accuracy.

4.If you haven't noticed me answer anyones questions then that is quite a blanket statement since I immediately answered a very complex question from the first poster about the jaredite barges and orgin of native americans rather quickly. I have answered questions several times before yours if you care to observe. As per my aforementioned life outside of the computer I only just now got the chance to respond to the "magic underwear" comment which term we find quite offensive and inacurate that they would be called such a disrespectful name.

Big Love is NOT about Mormons at all. It is a show about a Polygomist Family that breaks away from one of the cults that still believe in plural marriages. Explaining to people that the Mormon Church has not believed in Polygomy since the 1890's doesn't seem to convince them that any group proclaiming it is not Mormon.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It is not just simply my opinion what I said is already written in the Bible and the Torah. My opinion is I would rather the Holy Spirit teach me than a man who simply listens to a man made church of any kind and men/women teaching from their own precepts. That is not to say each church does not have a place.

You have answered certain questions in this thread yet that is not what many have heard from Mormon's over the years. Some Mormons take a stance that it is okay to cheat a nonmormon/what they call gentiles. So the "truth about Mormons" can only be determine by each individual as is the same case for any religious affiliation a person may have.

Mormons do NOT believe it is ok to cheat non Mormons. It is not ok to lie to non Mormons either.

 

[Truthspeaker]

It is not just simply my opinion what I said is already written in the Bible and the Torah. My opinion is I would rather the Holy Spirit teach me than a man who simply listens to a man made church of any kind and men/women teaching from their own precepts. That is not to say each church does not have a place.

You have answered certain questions in this thread yet that is not what many have heard from Mormon's over the years. Some Mormons take a stance that it is okay to cheat a nonmormon/what they call gentiles. So the "truth about Mormons" can only be determine by each individual as is the same case for any religious affiliation a person may have.

Well, I am not sure I see the logic in your argument. You have an interpretation of the scriptures that I don't agree with and can't understand how the church of philadelphia is God's way. I have never met a mormon in all the years of my life that has taken a stand that it is ok to cheat anyone. You do not understand the term gentile. It has many meanings and whoever uses a term in the way you have described does not understand the term either. I am afraid you are very misinformed about us.

 

[RodISHI]

Mormons do NOT believe it is ok to cheat non Mormons. It is not ok to lie to non Mormons either.

It is the same as any organized religion. People/individuals have their own personal take on their religion. I have met some very fine people who are/were Mormons. It is not an attack on the religion. I have met some fairly screwed up Mormons also who thought it was fine to do such to another since they did not belong to that church. Again, it is in all organized religions. Nothing personal.

 

[RodISHI]

Well, I am not sure I see the logic in your argument. You have an interpretation of the scriptures that I don't agree with and can't understand how the church of philadelphia is God's way. I have never met a mormon in all the years of my life that has taken a stand that it is ok to cheat anyone. You do not understand the term gentile. It has many meanings and whoever uses a term in the way you have described does not understand the term either. I am afraid you are very misinformed about us.

I lived around Mormons for over seventeen years. I am not misinformed as I do have a bit of personal experience in the matter. If I did not I would not have said so. I have met both good and bad that belong to the Mormon church. I sure do not hold anything I personally experience against the whole church. I just said this in the previous post. It is not a personal attack. All organized religions have problems.

 

[RodISHI]

Well, I am not sure I see the logic in your argument. You have an interpretation of the scriptures that I don't agree with and can't understand how the church of philadelphia is God's way.

The Church of Philadelphia is the only Church that overcomes fully and goes out no more. Philadelphia means brotherly love. That is the short of it. We can discuss it at another time if you wish.

 

[chloe]

It is not just simply my opinion what I said is already written in the Bible and the Torah. My opinion is I would rather the Holy Spirit teach me than a man who simply listens to a man made church of any kind and men/women teaching from their own precepts. That is not to say each church does not have a place.

You have answered certain questions in this thread yet that is not what many have heard from Mormon's over the years. Some Mormons take a stance that it is okay to cheat a nonmormon/what they call gentiles. So the "truth about Mormons" can only be determine by each individual as is the same case for any religious affiliation a person may have.

In Utah a lot of non-mormons have felt secretly discrminated against in business in politics, because there has been a grove of non-mormons who moved here during the 1990's it has changed the population politics a little bit. But still for an example there is a bank here called "Zions Bank" and some people have been passed over for promotions who were not a brother or a sister, but just a gentile. This has happened locally in a lot of compainies. I also worked for a local Mayor and a Judge and I can tell you first hand that if the Judge knew the brother or sister from the local ward they got to go in the Judges chambers and have a lot dismissed, now same charges against a gentile full charges stuck.

In the the history: With the completion of the transcontinental railroad in 1869, the development of the Ogden community changed considerably. Politically, the Mormon community leadership was challenged by the increasing non-Mormon population that came into the area with the railroad. The non-Mormon leaders tried to wrestle the political and economic control of Utah from the Mormons and center their control at Corinne, a main stop on the transcontinental line north of Ogden.

Brigham Young and the Mormon leadership would allow none of this and took steps to bypass Corinne with a railroad line to the north as well as an agreement with the Union Pacific and Central Pacific railroad companies that Ogden would be the main terminal of the transcontinental line. By 1874 the challenge of Corinne was over; Corinne continued to decline as businesses moved to Ogden, and Ogden became recognized as a major railroad and commercial center. In Ogden, Mormons and Gentiles (non-Mormons) mixed together in business and politics. In 1889 Fred J. Kiesel, a Gentile, was elected mayor of Ogden, the first breakthrough in Utah of the Mormon-dominated politics.

Utah History Encyclopedia


Im sure that Truth will deny this, but I have seen it first hand. Additionally I was married to a mormon he graduated from BYU Law School, trust me when I tell you that if he needs to use the "brother" card he will. Its a wink wink thing it is not something written in the book of mormon. It is subtle but things are a lot better now then now prior to the 1990's. I am not saying every single mormon does this, but in high up positions politically or financially it certainly does happen in utah. In fact one high up Zion's Bank stated that he doesnt promote women because he believes it is wrong for women to work and firmly believes women should be at home raising children. He was not saying it to be mean it was honestly how he felt.

 

[chloe]

The Official Church does not advocate Polygamy on earth. Big Love is focused on more the metropolitan polygamists and the different sects out here who arent from ther church but believe the church sold out to the government when they ended polygamy. So if you talk to the polygamists around here they will tell you they are actually living the True meaning of the church and book of mormon. But the Church does not agree with that. I happen to live near this polygamist family. They are actually pretty decent people.

5.20.2003Minutes

 

[Truthspeaker]

I lived around Mormons for over seventeen years. I am not misinformed as I do have a bit of personal experience in the matter. If I did not I would not have said so. I have met both good and bad that belong to the Mormon church. I sure do not hold anything I personally experience against the whole church. I just said this in the previous post. It is not a personal attack. All organized religions have problems.

Well again I am going to challenge your thinking. Just because you have mentioned that individuals twist the meaning of mormonism to their own views does not mean the church itself does. People who are guilty of perverting the gospel will stand accountable for that one day. the problem is that the people you say have done these things, cast a bad name on the people following the official doctrine. The official doctrine is what I am trying to clarify. i can't help it if individuals screw around with the teachings. Those people, if discovered, are chastised and if they don't straighten out are disciplined.

 

[Truthspeaker]

In Utah a lot of non-mormons have felt secretly discrminated against in business in politics, because there has been a grove of non-mormons who moved here during the 1990's it has changed the population politics a little bit. But still for an example there is a bank here called "Zions Bank" and some people have been passed over for promotions who were not a brother or a sister, but just a gentile. This has happened locally in a lot of compainies. I also worked for a local Mayor and a Judge and I can tell you first hand that if the Judge knew the brother or sister from the local ward they got to go in the Judges chambers and have a lot dismissed, now same charges against a gentile full charges stuck.

In the the history: With the completion of the transcontinental railroad in 1869, the development of the Ogden community changed considerably. Politically, the Mormon community leadership was challenged by the increasing non-Mormon population that came into the area with the railroad. The non-Mormon leaders tried to wrestle the political and economic control of Utah from the Mormons and center their control at Corinne, a main stop on the transcontinental line north of Ogden.

Brigham Young and the Mormon leadership would allow none of this and took steps to bypass Corinne with a railroad line to the north as well as an agreement with the Union Pacific and Central Pacific railroad companies that Ogden would be the main terminal of the transcontinental line. By 1874 the challenge of Corinne was over; Corinne continued to decline as businesses moved to Ogden, and Ogden became recognized as a major railroad and commercial center. In Ogden, Mormons and Gentiles (non-Mormons) mixed together in business and politics. In 1889 Fred J. Kiesel, a Gentile, was elected mayor of Ogden, the first breakthrough in Utah of the Mormon-dominated politics.

Utah History Encyclopedia


Im sure that Truth will deny this, but I have seen it first hand. Additionally I was married to a mormon he graduated from BYU Law School, trust me when I tell you that if he needs to use the "brother" card he will. Its a wink wink thing it is not something written in the book of mormon. It is subtle but things are a lot better now then now prior to the 1990's. I am not saying every single mormon does this, but in high up positions politically or financially it certainly does happen in utah. In fact one high up Zion's Bank stated that he doesnt promote women because he believes it is wrong for women to work and firmly believes women should be at home raising children. He was not saying it to be mean it was honestly how he felt.

I don't know why you are so sure I would deny it. It makes perfect sense that there are corrupt individuals who don't follow their religion.
As for the Brigham Young decision, I don't see what was so wrong with it. I believe he was the governor at the time and did what he felt was best for the community since I know the main focus on completing the railroad was to help further the construction of the Temple, which is what most people in the community were bent on finishing. Just also keep in mind that there was a separation of church and state all the time. Just because Brigham Young made a government decision as governer does not mean he was acting his separate role of President of the Church. The Temple had been under construction for almost 40 years already and the completion of the railroad would speed transport of granite from the quarries considerably. I don't think his decision was a personal attack on non-members.
I will emphasize again that I know there are individuals who do wrong things. Just don't assume that the church backs them when they sin. Just like we shouldn't assume that Islam teaches all their students to fly planes into skyscrapers.

 

[Truthspeaker]

The Official Church does not advocate Polygamy on earth. Big Love is focused on more the metropolitan polygamists and the different sects out here who arent from ther church but believe the church sold out to the government when they ended polygamy. So if you talk to the polygamists around here they will tell you they are actually living the True meaning of the church and book of mormon. But the Church does not agree with that. I happen to live near this polygamist family. They are actually pretty decent people.

5.20.2003Minutes

As for most of the Polygamists, they don't tend to read the Book of Mormon as much as they read the Bible, because there are far more enabling circumstances in the Bible to twist to their interpretation of the Polygamy doctrine. Be it for the record, they broke away from us, not us from them. It has been made clear.

 

[Truthspeaker]

It does little to convince an unbeliever to quote the Book Of Mormon or any documents from the Mormons, except to show what they are saying. When discussing with an unbeliever find common ground and work from there. Christians that are not Mormons believe in the Bible. Use the Bible to make the point.

Also sarge, I hope it's ok to call you that affectionately, if not let me know. But I want to emphasize that we don't refer to anyone as non-believers, especially other christians. I think it is a negative word that doesn't reflect how we feel about those who are not of our faith.

Any body got any more questions?

 

[chloe]

The church doessome good things for its members. Grandma was married in the temple downtown in 1940 she had 6 sons, within a period of three months she had major tragedies. First one of her little boys was run over by a drunk driver and killed, the next month her husband died of illness, the next month her mother died, she was left alone with 5 little children very poor. The church paid her bills fixed her house and took care of her until her children were old enough to do ti themselves.

This is common in the church even today, the lady down the road has 8 children her husband left the church and elft her alone with 8 kids to feed. she had enver worked has no education, the church frequently helps her with her bills and house maitanance.

Young womens teaches high morals, cooking, sewing and also cleans up the city, volunteers to assist elderly and sick people at hospitals.

There are alot of good mormons. But in Utah there is an overshadowing of some corruption and it does make it harder for the non-mormons. Still, the mormons who arent corrupt are some of the nicest people you will ever meet.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I am sorry you feel there is an undercurrent of corruption among the people. My feeling is that if there is an undercurrent of corruption in Utah, it is a lot less than anywhere else you will go. Also there may be a correlation between said corruption and the huge recent influx of non-members moving into the state. I am not so sure that there is a lot of corruption going on. I would be interested in some specifics there. But again I think we would be going off topic to discuss that. The main point of this thread is to clarify misconceptions about the church's teachings.