The Truth about Mormons

[RodISHI]

Well again I am going to challenge your thinking. Just because you have mentioned that individuals twist the meaning of mormonism to their own views does not mean the church itself does.

Individuals do that in all organized religion. The fact is though when you have Ward leaders or Bishops that follow such activities and prescribe such activities it truly damages the whole congregation of any church.

People who are guilty of perverting the gospel will stand accountable for that one day. the problem is that the people you say have done these things, cast a bad name on the people following the official doctrine.

Which gospel are you speaking about. The blue book or the Bible? I agree thoe who twist and pervert what Jesus taught will stand accountable. It is called a Rod of wrath and the Rod of correction.

The official doctrine is what I am trying to clarify. i can't help it if individuals screw around with the teachings. Those people, if discovered, are chastised and if they don't straighten out are disciplined.

I take it here you are talking about the book of mormon. If those who take negative actions against others were chastised that may help your whole cause. By the way what is the cause of the Mormon church since you are saying that is who you represent. Is it to teach the Bible or the book of mormon? That seems to be a confused issue from what I have seen.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Individuals do that in all organized religion. The fact is though when you have Ward leaders or Bishops that follow such activities and prescribe such activities it truly damages the whole congregation of any church.

Ward leaders and Bishops do not teach contrary to what is the official doctrine of the LDS church. If some have gone astray, it is less than a quarter of a percent that have done that and they are dealt with swiftly.


Which gospel are you speaking about. The blue book or the Bible? I agree thoe who twist and pervert what Jesus taught will stand accountable. It is called a Rod of wrath and the Rod of correction.

I am talking about both the Book of Mormon and the Bible. The way we see it the Bible is in harmony with the "blue book" you disrespectfully refer to.

I take it here you are talking about the book of mormon. If those who take negative actions against others were chastised that may help your whole cause. By the way what is the cause of the Mormon church since you are saying that is who you represent. Is it to teach the Bible or the book of mormon? That seems to be a confused issue from what I have seen.

The reason that it may confuse some people is simply because they have not read the Book of Mormon, or understand what it is about. The Bible is a record of God's dealings with people of the fertile crescent area. The Book of Mormon is a record of God's dealings with his children in the new world. Both teach the divinity of Christ and the need for his Atonement. They firmly strengthen each other

by the way, some of my responses are included in your quotation above. I couldn't figure out how to get them out of the gray area.

 

[catzmeow]

I am sorry you feel there is an undercurrent of corruption among the people. My feeling is that if there is an undercurrent of corruption in Utah, it is a lot less than anywhere else you will go. Also there may be a correlation between said corruption and the huge recent influx of non-members moving into the state. I am not so sure that there is a lot of corruption going on. I would be interested in some specifics there. But again I think we would be going off topic to discuss that. The main point of this thread is to clarify misconceptions about the church's teachings.

hah.

I lived in Salt Lake for ten years and worked for the SLC Police for five of the ten years. Your feelings are incorrect. Furthermore, when crimes are committed by high-ranking members of the church and their family members, the LDS church has a liaison with SLCPD to hush these situations up.

One of Thomas Monson's sons has quite a little hooker problem, for instance, but you will never read about it in the Deseret News.

 

[Truthmatters]

Well because of the sacred nature of the undergarments which you call "Magic Undies", I won't be able to tell you everything. I have made promises not to discuss them in detail. What I will say however in a nutshell is that they are a symbol and a reminder to us daily to keep the commandments of God, it's just that they are worn out of sight, rather than displayed out in the open like in other religions, who were their religious symbols on their heads, around their necks or on their whole body.
That will have to suffice.

That sounds very cult like to have "secrets" the public cant know.

 

[Skeptik]

First of all, thank you Truthspeaker for an enlightening thread about a largely misunderstood religion. I didn't realize just how many misconceptions there were until Romney's run for the Republican nomination. I heard people saying that the Mormons aren't Christian, that they once were sun worshipers, and I don't know how many other notions that are simply false.

The Mormon church says that Jesus and the Father restored the same church that Jesus establlshed on the Earth when He was here in the flesh. It holds that Jesus visited the people of the Americas during the three days between the crucifixion and the resurrection.

Every other Christian church was established by a man, or by men, who read scriptures, interpreted scripture, and in some cases (Gnostics) picked out what would and would not be included in the Bible.

Many of the evangelicals would condemn the pre Columbian people to Hell, as they never had a chance to hear the words of Christ.

What kind of god would be so unfair?

Mormons do not believe that people who have died without hearing the gospel are condemned to Hell.

Mormons believe in the apostasy (leaving the true church), and restoration.

There can be no doubt in the mind of anyone who has read the history of Christianity that the apostasy really happened. Therefore, if the true church is here, then it has to be the Mormon church.

In other words, if Christianity is correct, then Mormonism is also correct. The only way that the true doctrines of Christ could have been restored is through prophecy. No other church believes in modern prophecy, so far as I know.

 

[Truthspeaker]

hah.

I lived in Salt Lake for ten years and worked for the SLC Police for five of the ten years. Your feelings are incorrect. Furthermore, when crimes are committed by high-ranking members of the church and their family members, the LDS church has a liaison with SLCPD to hush these situations up.

One of Thomas Monson's sons has quite a little hooker problem, for instance, but you will never read about it in the Deseret News.

There are a million people who would fabricate stories like this. Usually it is disgruntled ex-members who want to attack our culture to try and make us look bad. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not one of those. In which case, it doesn't matter if individuals in the police department are corrupt. Or even the Prophet's son if that is true. We are all individuals and corruption of which you are speaking is not preached from the pulpit or in any of our literature. Just because the prophet's son goes astray, like any prodigal son, or Saul from the Bible, or the son of Alma in the Book of Mormon who fought against the church, or people like this, there is hope for them to return to the true way and be forgiven of their sins through repentance. Christ's Atonement makes it possible.

 

[Truthspeaker]

hah.

I lived in Salt Lake for ten years and worked for the SLC Police for five of the ten years. Your feelings are incorrect. Furthermore, when crimes are committed by high-ranking members of the church and their family members, the LDS church has a liaison with SLCPD to hush these situations up.

One of Thomas Monson's sons has quite a little hooker problem, for instance, but you will never read about it in the Deseret News.

The church doesn't run the PD, Senate, Government offices, or the News companies.

 

[Truthspeaker]

That sounds very cult like to have "secrets" the public cant know.

The truth is, WE ARE A CULT. That's right! We absolutely are. I am not kidding. If you look up the definition of a cult, it reads: A system of specific religious beliefs or practices.
Not so bad is it. I am proud to be a cultist

If you are thinking that these garments we wear give us magical powers, we don't believe in that. If I told you all of the ordinances and tokens of the Temple you wouldn't think it was such a big deal. Like I said before, Because we respect the garment and it's symbolism to remind us to keep God's commandments, we don't talk about the specifics, but if I did, you wouldn't be that amazed.
You are more than welcome to find out what they are by being baptized and found worthy to enter the Temple.

 

[jillian]

What questions do you have about baptism for the dead?

Mormonism is interesting... but my question is why do they feel the need to baptize dead jews who died in the holocaust?

That's a pretty big no-no, IMO.

 

[Truthspeaker]

First of all, thank you Truthspeaker for an enlightening thread about a largely misunderstood religion. I didn't realize just how many misconceptions there were until Romney's run for the Republican nomination. I heard people saying that the Mormons aren't Christian, that they once were sun worshipers, and I don't know how many other notions that are simply false.

The Mormon church says that Jesus and the Father restored the same church that Jesus establlshed on the Earth when He was here in the flesh. It holds that Jesus visited the people of the Americas during the three days between the crucifixion and the resurrection.

Every other Christian church was established by a man, or by men, who read scriptures, interpreted scripture, and in some cases (Gnostics) picked out what would and would not be included in the Bible.

Many of the evangelicals would condemn the pre Columbian people to Hell, as they never had a chance to hear the words of Christ.

What kind of god would be so unfair?

Mormons do not believe that people who have died without hearing the gospel are condemned to Hell.

Mormons believe in the apostasy (leaving the true church), and restoration.

There can be no doubt in the mind of anyone who has read the history of Christianity that the apostasy really happened. Therefore, if the true church is here, then it has to be the Mormon church.

In other words, if Christianity is correct, then Mormonism is also correct. The only way that the true doctrines of Christ could have been restored is through prophecy. No other church believes in modern prophecy, so far as I know.

You have got to be one of us. It's ok to admit it.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Mormonism is interesting... but my question is why do they feel the need to baptize dead jews who died in the holocaust?

That's a pretty big no-no, IMO.

That's a legit question, I can understand where you are coming from.
We baptize by proxy every deceased persons name we can get our hands on, unless their family tells us not to. But it doesn't really matter. If one understands the doctrine of baptism for the dead, they would realize that once taught the gospel, those people on the other side of the veil have a choice to accept that baptism or reject it according to their own conscience.

We are not making them members when they die, we are just baptizing them in case they decide to join once they have formed their own decision about the gospel. We don't broadcast the names over the news so we are not slandering their name.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Also you will have to educate me. I don't know what IMO means

 

[jillian]

That's a legit question, I can understand where you are coming from.
We baptize by proxy every deceased persons name we can get our hands on, unless their family tells us not to. But it doesn't really matter. If one understands the doctrine of baptism for the dead, they would realize that once taught the gospel, those people on the other side of the veil have a choice to accept that baptism or reject it according to their own conscience.

We are not making them members when they die, we are just baptizing them in case they decide to join once they have formed their own decision about the gospel. We don't broadcast the names over the news so we are not slandering their name.

The problem is that the people who died in the holocaust were specifically targeted because of their religion. We didn't change our religion during the inquisition. We didn't change our religion during the crusades. We didn't change our religion during the holocaust.... and all the pogroms and swastikas couldn't make us afraid enough to do that.

I have no problem with people making choices about what they believe. But dead people aren't making a choice. Personally, I'd be really cranky if I thought I would be baptized. We don't like it much. I understand that it comes from a place where you want to do good... but that's like converting us against our will where even putting us into crematoriums couldn't make us do that.

BTW, I mean no offense to you by saying that. Just discussing the issue. And, like I said, I find mormonism interesting and don't have any issues with LDS (so long as they aren't the guys from the sect who are marrying 14 year olds).

 

[Truthspeaker]

The problem is that the people who died in the holocaust were specifically targeted because of their religion. We didn't change our religion during the inquisition. We didn't change our religion during the crusades. We didn't change our religion during the holocaust.... and all the pogroms and swastikas couldn't make us afraid enough to do that.

I have no problem with people making choices about what they believe. But dead people aren't making a choice. Personally, I'd be really cranky if I thought I would be baptized. We don't like it much. I understand that it comes from a place where you want to do good... but that's like converting us against our will where even putting us into crematoriums couldn't make us do that.

BTW, I mean no offense to you by saying that. Just discussing the issue. And, like I said, I find mormonism interesting and don't have any issues with LDS (so long as they aren't the guys from the sect who are marrying 14 year olds).

As some might imagine, I get extremely excited when I get a chance to talk to a Jew about religion. Nobody respects Jews like we do. And again, the nature of the doctrine of baptism for the dead is not one of compulsory nature. As I said before each person in the realm of the afterlife has their own choice to accept that baptism or reject it. They know when it is going to take place and can choose to not show up if they want. There is no forcing here.
In fact you may be surprised how much we understand about the Jews and their faith. We believe that the children of Israel are God's chosen people and that he will come to reclaim them and take vengeance on their oppressors.
The reason some Jews are fascinated by the Book of Mormon is because it tells of a branch of Israel which was broken off of the house of Joseph and scattered into the nether most part of the Lord's vineyard. To follow a parable of the prophet Zenock.

 

[Truthspeaker]

About the pedophiles and polygamists, they broke off from us and are not recognized by us. They have a weird interpretation of our doctrine which doesn't make sense to anyone of us who examines it. They say they believe in Joseph Smith as a prophet but they grossly twist his words to their desires. They are badly misinformed and got started by disgruntled ex-members who wanted more wives than they deserved, which was zero. the only ones they could convince of this were the young, impressionable teenage girls who had little say in the matter and wound up believing that their polygamst husbands were prophets and that they had to be married to them in order to make it to heaven, which is an abominable doctrine, but easy to believe when that is the only teacher you have.

 

[catzmeow]

That sounds very cult like to have "secrets" the public cant know.

The magic underwear are called garments, and have occult symbols on the breast, belly, and right thigh.

Temple garment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The symbols were adopted by Joseph Smith from Masonic symbols (Smith was a Mason).

 

[catzmeow]

I am sorry you feel there is an undercurrent of corruption among the people. My feeling is that if there is an undercurrent of corruption in Utah, it is a lot less than anywhere else you will go. Also there may be a correlation between said corruption and the huge recent influx of non-members moving into the state. I am not so sure that there is a lot of corruption going on. I would be interested in some specifics there. But again I think we would be going off topic to discuss that. The main point of this thread is to clarify misconceptions about the church's teachings.

Have you ever lived in Utah?

 

[sky dancer]

The problem I have with LDS, is the enormous amount of money they poured into my state to pass Proposition 8.

What's up with that?

 

[jillian]

As some might imagine, I get extremely excited when I get a chance to talk to a Jew about religion. Nobody respects Jews like we do. And again, the nature of the doctrine of baptism for the dead is not one of compulsory nature. As I said before each person in the realm of the afterlife has their own choice to accept that baptism or reject it. They know when it is going to take place and can choose to not show up if they want. There is no forcing here.
In fact you may be surprised how much we understand about the Jews and their faith. We believe that the children of Israel are God's chosen people and that he will come to reclaim them and take vengeance on their oppressors.
The reason some Jews are fascinated by the Book of Mormon is because it tells of a branch of Israel which was broken off of the house of Joseph and scattered into the nether most part of the Lord's vineyard. To follow a parable of the prophet Zenock.

I always find it so funny when someone gets "excited" to talk to a Jew about religion... lol... to me it's obviously no biggie given I'm pretty much surrounded by other jews, some of whom know a lot about our religion, some of whom know nothing about our religion and some, like me, who know a little about our re,ligion.. .and appreciate the things I get from it. I'll tell you the truth, though, I appreciate the whole chosen people thing, but I don't really subscribe to it because a) I think we're all loved equally; b) I think we all have an equal shot at paradise if we do good things; c) I find that the "chosen" thing has been used more to our detriment by people who hate us than for good, so I think it's fairly dangerous to either be treated as "chosen" or believe we're chosen.... particularly if, as in some branches of christianity where being chosen means dying fighting the anti-christ.

I find all peaceful beliefs interesting....

And I understand what you're staying about the baptisms... but we really don't like it. And I happen to know that right now there's a dialogue going on between some of our orthodox community and your leadership where it will hopefully stop where we're concerned. It's kind of a biggie to us.

Pleasure to meet you, btw.

 

[Truthspeaker]

The magic underwear are called garments, and have occult symbols on the breast, belly, and right thigh.

Temple garment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The symbols were adopted by Joseph Smith from Masonic symbols (Smith was a Mason).

That is what most people think. And on the surface it would make sense. However it is not that simple. Joseph did align himself with the masons for a time because he was curious as to what it is they teach. When he inquired of the Lord as to the meaning of the symbols and tokens used by the Masons, he was told that they were not being used for their true purpose and had lost their meaning. He had revealed to him later the true meaning of the symbols and the correct demonstration of them. Just like many branches of Christianity had kept precious truths over the years since the apostacy, such was the case with the Masons. However, we believe that the full gospel was restored with all the important ordinances required for salvation when Joseph Smith had them given to him by angels and God himself. Piece by piece he was given the rites and ordinances necessary and eventually was commanded to lead God's restored church. That is the doctrine.