CDZ The Trump-Hitler Comparison -- Just looking at it...

[Fueri]

"He's asking a lot -- as if asking for us to vote for him isn't already asking a lot -- for us to not presume that waving stunt wasn't a subtle nod to white supremacists"


A wave does not a white supremacist make.

Trump is a lot of things, but a white supremacist is waaay down the list, if it's even a valid accusation at all....

And a properly timed photo can be as misleading as a quote taken out of context.

By the logic that anyone that holds their hand up is a white supremacist, here's another white supremacist.

And a whole crowd full of them. Check out the Pantsuit Fuhrer. She's giving the salute!

Here's another. Look at all the white supremacists! Pantsuit Fuhrer is at it again also!

People at concerts and rallies put their hands in the air. People on stage wave at them. Supposing this makes them a white supremacist is a stretch-a-roo.....

You tell me....has the crowd leader in your photos made (or failed to make) remarks that call into question their stance on racism or white supremacism? If not, there's no basis for thinking any form of subtle sympathizing with racists is in play. If so, perhaps.


Michael Jackson:
The man was black. I think it's safe to say he wasn't a white supremacist, if only because even if he felt that way, what white supremacist group would have him? I suppose he could have been a black racist (against non-blacks), but if I accept that, I have to then ask is there any additional indication that might have been so and what ability would he have had to express his racism, and to what degree might he have done so, such as refusing to associate with, hire, express kindness toward, etc. non-blacks. I don't know that he behaved that way; infact I'm fairly certain he did not behave that way.


Other:

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.
― Laura Pedersen, Best Bet​

I'm not saying that everyone who waves is a racist. I'm saying that Mr. Trump has has of late a spate of incidents that call his -- not everyone else's, not anyone else's -- most recently stated position on racism, and the sincerity of that position, into question. The optics of the wave are just one more illustration that questioning the sincerity of his stance on racism may not be as preposterous as it seemed to be prior to the "wave stunt."

Nobody held Mr. Trump at gunpoint making him orchestrate that wave thing. He did that willfully and all on his own. As I said, he had to know what that would look like, and he definitely knew it'd be photographed, and he is well aware of the recent comparisons -- Glen Beck among the folks who've drawn the parallels -- between himself and Hitler, and he has to know that his supporters, including David Duke and his crowd, were likely to see the imagery of that group wave he led.

Could it be that it's all just serendipity and coincidence? It could be that, but what to folks in the intelligence world say?

The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence.
― V.C. King
​

So an inference leads to another inference that a wave, and waves from people in the crowd is a staged white supremacist display.

Now, when this guy or crowds at his rallies do exactly what people of all stripes at other similar venues do, it's a nazi salute.

The conclusion that this is some white supremacist display is specious, IMO.

Red:
Did you just hit "Reply" and start typing, or did you actually read my last post that you quoted?

I read it. Your justification for painting Trump and the people in his crowds as anything other than doing what normal people do at these events is the second supposition I referred to, which was based on the first.

Assuming trump is a racist and then using that assumption to think that those in his crowds or he is/are orchestrating some white supremacist code wave is supposition stacked upon supposition.

Hence, specious, IMO.

Red:
Well, there you go. I know now that if you've been reading my words, you haven't fully understood them. I haven't painted anything...what I've done is prepare the canvas and sketch a rough outline of the picture that I will paint in if when Mr. Trump "delivers some paint to my studio." I see now that nuance in the meaning of the words I wrote escaped you. That is what it is.

You claimed trump was giving a nod to white supremacists and used photos of him supposedly giving some sort of secret salute to white supremacists.

you said:
"He's asking a lot -- as if asking for us to vote for him isn't already asking a lot -- for us to not presume that waving stunt wasn't a subtle nod to white supremacists (take your pick...Neonazis, the KKK, some other group...)"

Now you want to deflect by talking of nuances and canvases and/or my seeming inability to understand you. Give me a break with that condescending BS, which is exactly what that is.

Your claims were and are specious in this claim of trump giving the nod on the sly to some Neonazis or whatever.

You built your argument on an incredibly shaky foundation and it was weak from word 'go', which is unlike you, but, to use your phrase, it is what it is.....

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

"He's asking a lot -- as if asking for us to vote for him isn't already asking a lot -- for us to not presume that waving stunt wasn't a subtle nod to white supremacists"


A wave does not a white supremacist make.

Trump is a lot of things, but a white supremacist is waaay down the list, if it's even a valid accusation at all....

And a properly timed photo can be as misleading as a quote taken out of context.

By the logic that anyone that holds their hand up is a white supremacist, here's another white supremacist.

And a whole crowd full of them. Check out the Pantsuit Fuhrer. She's giving the salute!

Here's another. Look at all the white supremacists! Pantsuit Fuhrer is at it again also!

People at concerts and rallies put their hands in the air. People on stage wave at them. Supposing this makes them a white supremacist is a stretch-a-roo.....

You tell me....has the crowd leader in your photos made (or failed to make) remarks that call into question their stance on racism or white supremacism? If not, there's no basis for thinking any form of subtle sympathizing with racists is in play. If so, perhaps.


Michael Jackson:
The man was black. I think it's safe to say he wasn't a white supremacist, if only because even if he felt that way, what white supremacist group would have him? I suppose he could have been a black racist (against non-blacks), but if I accept that, I have to then ask is there any additional indication that might have been so and what ability would he have had to express his racism, and to what degree might he have done so, such as refusing to associate with, hire, express kindness toward, etc. non-blacks. I don't know that he behaved that way; infact I'm fairly certain he did not behave that way.


Other:

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.
― Laura Pedersen, Best Bet​

I'm not saying that everyone who waves is a racist. I'm saying that Mr. Trump has has of late a spate of incidents that call his -- not everyone else's, not anyone else's -- most recently stated position on racism, and the sincerity of that position, into question. The optics of the wave are just one more illustration that questioning the sincerity of his stance on racism may not be as preposterous as it seemed to be prior to the "wave stunt."

Nobody held Mr. Trump at gunpoint making him orchestrate that wave thing. He did that willfully and all on his own. As I said, he had to know what that would look like, and he definitely knew it'd be photographed, and he is well aware of the recent comparisons -- Glen Beck among the folks who've drawn the parallels -- between himself and Hitler, and he has to know that his supporters, including David Duke and his crowd, were likely to see the imagery of that group wave he led.

Could it be that it's all just serendipity and coincidence? It could be that, but what to folks in the intelligence world say?

The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence.
― V.C. King
​

"Michael Jackson:
The man was black."

Michael Jackson WAS black until he turned white

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Waving is hitler like? Jesus christ

OMG! OMG!

 

[320 Years of History]

You tell me....has the crowd leader in your photos made (or failed to make) remarks that call into question their stance on racism or white supremacism? If not, there's no basis for thinking any form of subtle sympathizing with racists is in play. If so, perhaps.


Michael Jackson:
The man was black. I think it's safe to say he wasn't a white supremacist, if only because even if he felt that way, what white supremacist group would have him? I suppose he could have been a black racist (against non-blacks), but if I accept that, I have to then ask is there any additional indication that might have been so and what ability would he have had to express his racism, and to what degree might he have done so, such as refusing to associate with, hire, express kindness toward, etc. non-blacks. I don't know that he behaved that way; infact I'm fairly certain he did not behave that way.


Other:

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.
― Laura Pedersen, Best Bet​

I'm not saying that everyone who waves is a racist. I'm saying that Mr. Trump has has of late a spate of incidents that call his -- not everyone else's, not anyone else's -- most recently stated position on racism, and the sincerity of that position, into question. The optics of the wave are just one more illustration that questioning the sincerity of his stance on racism may not be as preposterous as it seemed to be prior to the "wave stunt."

Nobody held Mr. Trump at gunpoint making him orchestrate that wave thing. He did that willfully and all on his own. As I said, he had to know what that would look like, and he definitely knew it'd be photographed, and he is well aware of the recent comparisons -- Glen Beck among the folks who've drawn the parallels -- between himself and Hitler, and he has to know that his supporters, including David Duke and his crowd, were likely to see the imagery of that group wave he led.

Could it be that it's all just serendipity and coincidence? It could be that, but what to folks in the intelligence world say?

The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence.
― V.C. King
​

So an inference leads to another inference that a wave, and waves from people in the crowd is a staged white supremacist display.

Now, when this guy or crowds at his rallies do exactly what people of all stripes at other similar venues do, it's a nazi salute.

The conclusion that this is some white supremacist display is specious, IMO.

Red:
Did you just hit "Reply" and start typing, or did you actually read my last post that you quoted?

I read it. Your justification for painting Trump and the people in his crowds as anything other than doing what normal people do at these events is the second supposition I referred to, which was based on the first.

Assuming trump is a racist and then using that assumption to think that those in his crowds or he is/are orchestrating some white supremacist code wave is supposition stacked upon supposition.

Hence, specious, IMO.

Red:
Well, there you go. I know now that if you've been reading my words, you haven't fully understood them. I haven't painted anything...what I've done is prepare the canvas and sketch a rough outline of the picture that I will paint in if when Mr. Trump "delivers some paint to my studio." I see now that nuance in the meaning of the words I wrote escaped you. That is what it is.

You claimed trump was giving a nod to white supremacists and used photos of him supposedly giving some sort of secret salute to white supremacists.

you said:
"He's asking a lot -- as if asking for us to vote for him isn't already asking a lot -- for us to not presume that waving stunt wasn't a subtle nod to white supremacists (take your pick...Neonazis, the KKK, some other group...)"

Now you want to deflect by talking of nuances and canvases and/or my seeming inability to understand you. Give me a break with that condescending BS, which is exactly what that is.

Your claims were and are specious in this claim of trump giving the nod on the sly to some Neonazis or whatever.

You built your argument on an incredibly shaky foundation and it was weak from word 'go', which is unlike you, but, to use your phrase, it is what it is.....

I knew it was just a matter of time before you'd positively confirm for me that of which, unlike my thoughts about Mr. Trump and his racist leanings, I was certain of and asserted two posts back. I would like to plead incredulity that you wrote what I just read, but I cannot for you clearly did write it. I said earlier that I knew you didn't understand what you read in my post. Then, I didn't know exactly where you'd failed to comprehend what I'd written, but now I know precisely what you read that you also didn't understand: presume.

FWIW....
To presume does not denote or connote complete certainty; presumptions inherently have a degree of doubt, be it a large degree or a small degree, or something in between. I even included the Taylor Coleridge quote, and the express reference to it at the post's outset, to subtly underscore the tone of ambiguity intrinsic to my OP's thesis.

Later in yours and my discourse, I further expounded on my recognition that my remarks, the case of which they are a part, are at best circumstantial, not only by expressly saying that what's at issue is Mr. Trump's calling the veracity of his verbal assertions into question, but also by providing not one, but two quotes dealing with coincidence. To no avail, of course, for we see now that too went right by you as though it were a speeding bullet.

 

[Fueri]

Blah, Blah, Blah Tony.

So you posted a thread to claim that Trump was pushing the boundaries of incredulity w/r/t his white supremacist waving, but now you have no position, but only a canvas, waiting for him to deliver the paint.

The only thing this thread is pushing the boundaries of is lameness. It started in tinfoil hat territory and now it's canvases and nuances when it's clear your point was not well received.

And again, nothing went by me Tony, not anything you posted nor your officious, condescending attitude.

Now you deflect from your original position and couch your pique in layers of flowery language, like shoveling rose petals over heaps of manure, which is all it is....

 

[320 Years of History]

Blah, Blah, Blah Tony.

So you posted a thread to claim that Trump was pushing the boundaries of incredulity w/r/t his white supremacist waving, but now you have no position, but only a canvas, waiting for him to deliver the paint.

The only thing this thread is pushing the boundaries of is lameness. It started in tinfoil hat territory and now it's canvases and nuances when it's clear your point was not well received.

And again, nothing went by me Tony, not anything you posted nor your officious, condescending attitude.

Now you deflect from your original position and couch your pique in layers of flowery language, like shoveling rose petals over heaps of manure, which is all it is....

You have some nerve. You engaged me in a contretemps over what you thought I had written and meant, accusing me of being specious to boot, and now that I've shown, using your own words no less, that you didn't understand what you'd read, that is how you respond.

You think I was condescending to you before? You are so wrong.

Before I was suffering you. Now, I am condescending to you!

So an inference leads to another inference that a wave, and waves from people in the crowd is a staged white supremacist display.

Now, when this guy or crowds at his rallies do exactly what people of all stripes at other similar venues do, it's a nazi salute.

The conclusion that this is some white supremacist display is specious, IMO.

Red:
Did you just hit "Reply" and start typing, or did you actually read my last post that you quoted?

I read it. Your justification for painting Trump and the people in his crowds as anything other than doing what normal people do at these events is the second supposition I referred to, which was based on the first.

Assuming trump is a racist and then using that assumption to think that those in his crowds or he is/are orchestrating some white supremacist code wave is supposition stacked upon supposition.

Hence, specious, IMO.

Red:
Well, there you go. I know now that if you've been reading my words, you haven't fully understood them. I haven't painted anything...what I've done is prepare the canvas and sketch a rough outline of the picture that I will paint in if when Mr. Trump "delivers some paint to my studio." I see now that nuance in the meaning of the words I wrote escaped you. That is what it is.

You claimed trump was giving a nod to white supremacists and used photos of him supposedly giving some sort of secret salute to white supremacists.

you said:
"He's asking a lot -- as if asking for us to vote for him isn't already asking a lot -- for us to not presume that waving stunt wasn't a subtle nod to white supremacists (take your pick...Neonazis, the KKK, some other group...)"

Now you want to deflect by talking of nuances and canvases and/or my seeming inability to understand you. Give me a break with that condescending BS, which is exactly what that is.

Your claims were and are specious in this claim of trump giving the nod on the sly to some Neonazis or whatever.

You built your argument on an incredibly shaky foundation and it was weak from word 'go', which is unlike you, but, to use your phrase, it is what it is.....

I knew it was just a matter of time before you'd positively confirm for me that of which, unlike my thoughts about Mr. Trump and his racist leanings, I was certain of and asserted two posts back. I would like to plead incredulity that you wrote what I just read, but I cannot for you clearly did write it. I said earlier that I knew you didn't understand what you read in my post. Then, I didn't know exactly where you'd failed to comprehend what I'd written, but now I know precisely what you read that you also didn't understand: presume.

FWIW....
To presume does not denote or connote complete certainty; presumptions inherently have a degree of doubt, be it a large degree or a small degree, or something in between. I even included the Taylor Coleridge quote, and the express reference to it at the post's outset, to subtly underscore the tone of ambiguity intrinsic to my OP's thesis.

Later in yours and my discourse, I further expounded on my recognition that my remarks, the case of which they are a part, are at best circumstantial, not only by expressly saying that what's at issue is Mr. Trump's calling the veracity of his verbal assertions into question, but also by providing not one, but two quotes dealing with coincidence. To no avail, of course, for we see now that too went right by you as though it were a speeding bullet.

 

[Weatherman2020]

The Trump/Hitler comparison is absurd.
It's Trump/Mussolini.

 

[320 Years of History]

The Trump/Hitler comparison is absurd.
It's Trump/Mussolini.

Touché

 

[jasonnfree]

The Trump/Hitler comparison is absurd.
It's Trump/Mussolini.

How about the drone attacks/killings on American citizens - judge, jury, and executioner in one fell swoop. I think mussolini and hitler both would go for that.

 

[Stephanie]

You want to see a comparison to Hitler. Look at Hillary, Bernie, Obama that whole party. Hillary want's to put a FEE on a company to leave OUR COUNTRY to start a business in another country. Bernie doesn't think any guns should be allowed in our country. seriously if that isn't HITLER, fascism, dictators. I don't know what you call it. gawd grow up everything isn't Trump trump trump trump trump trump

 

[regent]

I remember well Mussolini in the old movie newsreels and it was my first reaction to Trump-- it's Mussolini. The expressions are all there, and I felt sure that the Democrats would immediately put on some of those old newsreels.
When Trump puts that lip out for all to see, I see nothing but Mussolini. I don't stand for Trump but I think we're supposed to.

 

[jasonnfree]

Well, Mussolini confiscated guns. Which candidate would like to confiscate guns, and it's not Trump.

 

[320 Years of History]

Well, Mussolini confiscated guns. Which candidate would like to confiscate guns, and it's not Trump.

LHFM!!!

"Like" Hitler, or "similar to Mussolini" does not in any way mean "doing every damn thing either one of them did."

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

This should be under political satire or conspiracy theories. Does USMB have a just plain stupid thread ?

 

[320 Years of History]

I wonder how many folks who've denied the now oft noted similarity of tone, approach to garnering support, and themes between HItler and Mr. Trump? I wonder how many such Trump supporters have actually listened to some of Hitler's campaign speeches or his speech after being elected Chancellor?

Here are some examples (you may need to click on closed captioning to get English translations). Though the exact subject matter differs, few if anyone should have difficulty seeing the commonalities I note above.

Adolf Hitler NSDAP Election Rally July 21st, 1932 in Goettingen

​

Adolf Hitler 1932 Election Speech

​

Adolf HItler after having become the German leader addressing the National Socialist party

​

Mr. Trump and Hitler's rhetoric presented together. Strangely, it seems at times the compared content doesn't follow an intuitive sequence. For example, the first Trump clip seems to have little to do with the first Hitler clip that follows it, but the next Trump clip relates to the first Hitler clip. Occasionally there seem to be random clips that relate to something that came several segments prior of later. I didn't create the video.

​

 

[2aguy]

Nevermind the written and spoken remarks that hint at there being some sort of sympathizing with such groups, in spite of Mr. Trump's attestations to the contrary for we have ample examples of his "now" saying one thing and later the complete opposite.

The Trump-Hitler comparisons, even just optically, are hard to ignore when considered together. At some point, one must start to realize there's just not rational to expect, lo demand, as much willing suspension of disbelief as does Mr. Trump.

I'm sure they were all just waving, "Hi, there, buddy. How're you doing."

The British Royal Family certainly wave at people....

...the thing is, I didn't immediately come across any photos of their subjects waving back, particularly not in modern times, but not even frequently in the mid-twentieth century.

But as you can see, Welsch children did, a long time ago, wave back to Queen and her consort.

I also found pics of subjects waving at the monarchs, but the monarchs weren't waving at the subjects.

Now you tell me, how is it very media savvy Donald Trump -- whatever one thinks of Mr. Trump, there's no disagreement on that -- managed to miss the optics of having a crowd of "Trumpeteers" pose as shown in the first photos above? Especially right on the heels of his KKK/David Duke/white supremacists/racist gaffe?

He's asking a lot -- as if asking for us to vote for him isn't already asking a lot -- for us to not presume that waving stunt wasn't a subtle nod to white supremacists (take your pick...Neonazis, the KKK, some other group...). Indeed, the subtlety of racism and its expressions these days is a major part of why so many of its presumed objects express incredulity about the extent of its demise in American society.

What could Mr. Trump have been thinking when he orchestrated that wave/salute thing? "Well, I'll get them to raise their hands, but I won't pass out armbands....that'll be enough for me to have plausible deniability."?

...My endeavours should be directed to persons and characters supernatural, or at least romantic, yet so as to transfer from our inward nature a human interest and a semblance of truth sufficient to procure for these shadows of imagination that willing suspension of disbelief...
-- Samuel Taylor Coleridge​

Anyone who compares Trump to hitler....well this is the clean debate zone so I won't call them morons...I will save that for the political threads....

 

[2aguy]

I wonder how many folks who've denied the now oft noted similarity of tone, approach to garnering support, and themes between HItler and Mr. Trump? I wonder how many such Trump supporters have actually listened to some of Hitler's campaign speeches or his speech after being elected Chancellor?

Here are some examples (you may need to click on closed captioning to get English translations). Though the exact subject matter differs, few if anyone should have difficulty seeing the commonalities I note above.

Adolf Hitler NSDAP Election Rally July 21st, 1932 in Goettingen (click for subtitles)

​

Adolf Hitler 1932 Election Speech (has subtitles in the video itself)

​

Adolf HItler after having become the German leader addressing the National Socialist party

​

Mr. Trump and Hitler's rhetoric presented together. Strangely, it seems at times the compared content doesn't follow an intuitive sequence. For example, the first Trump clip seems to have little to do with the first Hitler clip that follows it, but the next Trump clip relates to the first Hitler clip. Occasionally there seem to be random clips that relate to something that came several segments prior of later. I didn't create the video.

​

How about some video of Obama standing in front of the Greek columns....and his known good friendships with violent, anti American terrorists.......

How about his support for actual violent rioters and black lives matter thugs.....

Get real.....

 

[2aguy]

Yes...if this wasn't the clean d bate zone I would be calling you a moron........but I am far to polite for that....

 

[regent]

Trump probably thinks like Hitler, looks like Mussolini and pouts like Shirley Temple.

 

[2aguy]

So..when sanders says that Wall Street people are vultures....how soon before he sends them to death camps...right? If it is easy to compare Trump to hitler then sanders is the same when he calls an entire group of people vultures...right? And his brown shirts are actually suppressing political opponents...right?