The truly horrible House gun bill

[Mac-7]

Rendering firearms USELESS for self defense. Government trying to BEAT people into giving up their 2nd amendment rights. Why not allow guns to be loaded with 6 rounds for defense, and the rest of the ammunition locked up? Because that's not their goal, their goal is to take away our 2nd amendment rights. This is a gun ban by way of rendering the gun inoperable.

I recommend that every gun owner have a safe

We can lock up most of our guns but should be free to keep one at the ready

 

[2aguy]

The Red flag law in this bill is little more than backdoor gun confiscation

Here Rep Lance Gooden explains why he voted no

Friends,

The school shooting in Uvalde is an unimaginable tragedy, and my heart continues to break for the families who lost a child, a mother, or a loved one. There are twenty-one families in Texas that are forever shattered, and I will do everything in my power to ensure a tragedy like this never happens again. We must secure our children’s schools, address the mental health crisis gripping our nation, and restore respect for the sanctity of human life.

However, the bills considered by the House of Representatives today would have accomplished none of those things. Instead, liberals in Congress used an unimaginable tragedy to push a series of empty and blatantly unconstitutional proposals that attack Americans’ Second Amendment rights and fail to address the root causes of gun violence. The bills passed by the House today were nothing short of a foot in the door to nationwide gun grabs, unconstitutional age restrictions, and European-style gun control. I could not and will not support that. While there is a laundry list of reasons I voted no on these bills today, I wanted to explain to you the most egregious provisions and why I voted against them.

1. Mandating Firearms be Stored and Locked at Home

The Supreme Court has already ruled Americans have a right to defend themselves in their own homes. A federal mandate on how their self-defense weapon is stored that limits their ability to protect themselves would clearly violate that right. While firearm safety in the home is vitally important, especially to parents of young children, if an intruder enters your home, the time it takes to unlock your firearm box and load your gun could be the difference between life and death. Americans have a right to determine the safest way to store their guns at home. This provision would have done nothing to prevent the shooting in Uvalde and instead only risks more lives, especially in rural communities where law enforcement response times are longer.

2. Prohibiting Third-Party Gun Purchases or Loans

Federal law already prohibits the transfer or third-party sale of a firearm to someone prohibited from possessing one. The extreme prohibition in this bill on third-party gun purchases goes much further and would severely limit an individual’s ability to purchase a firearm as a gift or loan a gun to a friend. In other words, it would criminalize purchasing a gun for a friend who is experiencing domestic violence and may need a firearm for self-defense. This would put well-intentioned Americans at risk of criminal prosecution, and even prison, for trying to protect their sister or friend in an abusive relationship or for loaning a friend a gun while hunting.

3. Confiscating Americans’ Firearms without Due Process

The bill would create new “red flag” laws that trample on Americans’ Second Amendment rights by allowing family or household members to alert law enforcement or petition a court requesting an individual’s firearm be confiscated without due process. While this may seem commonsense if an individual is a risk to their family or their household, the way the bill establishes this procedure is extreme and ripe for abuse. It would allow any individual who has cohabitated with another in the past year to file the petition, meaning a disgruntled ex-spouse or former roommate could submit endless petitions to harass an individual or deprive them of the means to defend themselves. In the United States, you are innocent until proven guilty, and your Constitutional rights cannot be denied without due process and equal protection under the law.

4. Raising the Age Limit on Gun Purchases to 21

The bill considered today would prohibit the sale of certain firearms to individuals under the age of 21, with very limited exceptions. If you can fight for your country or join your local police force at age 18, then the government should not prevent you from buying a firearm to protect yourself and your loved ones. More importantly, the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit has already ruled this type of prohibition is unconstitutional.

5. Banning “High Capacity” Firearms

Perhaps the most far-reaching provision in the bill is a limit on firearm magazine capacity of ten rounds, which would apply to an overwhelming majority of magazines sold with rifles and handguns. Most weapons today can accommodate fifteen to thirty rounds of ammunition, and studies have shown limiting access to these weapons would have no impact on reducing violent crime. This provision is nothing more than an attempt to limit the number of guns available on the market.

These provisions would only burden law-abiding Americans and restrict their right to bear arms while also failing to prevent violent crime from occurring. This is not a serious attempt to find solutions. We must work to understand and prevent what drives individuals to commit such evil acts of violence. We must strengthen our nation’s mental healthcare system. We must emphasize and work to restore the core nuclear family and traditional family values. These actions would prevent future crime, but gun control will not. In the meantime, and most importantly, we must secure our schools.

I support protecting our children and our communities, but I will not support policies that infringe on the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans. That’s why I voted no on the liberal gun grab today.


Sincerely,

Actually, Heller already said mandatory gun locks are unConstitutional, so mandatory storage would be too....

 

[2aguy]

They can raise the age to buy a gun when they raise the age to be drafted by that same age to go fight their ridiculous DNC wars abroad

Otherwise, they can shove it up their rump!

Even better......raise the age for an abortion to 21......see how they screech on that one..

 

[2aguy]

I recommend that every gun owner have a safe

We can lock up most of our guns but should be free to keep one at the ready

I agree...but mandating it is a non-starter.......

 

[Mac-7]

Actually, Heller already said mandatory gun locks are unConstitutional, so mandatory storage would be too....

It doesnt have to be mandatory

I was just making a suggestion

 

[2aguy]

I think confiscation could depend on the circumstances. If the cops are called and they arrest you cuz they believe you are a danger to yourself or others then I can see confiscation as reasonable. And when you get your arraignment hearing, part of the discussion for bail would include whether or not your guns should be returned to you. The judge can decide whether or not to keep or delay your weapons, and that is reasonable due process IMHO.

If they do not arrest you and do not believe you are a danger to yourself or others then IMHO confiscation is not warranted.

Then there's the situation where they don't arrest you but believe you could be a danger to yourself or others. Which is kinda weird, but let's run with it. Maybe a family member calls the cops even though you're not doing anything wrong at least at the moment but that person is concerned. Seems to me the prudent thing to do is confiscate the guns and require a hearing within say 14 days to determine further action. No hearing would mean the end of the confiscation and you get your guns back. But look at it, you haven't actually done anything wrong that the cops can see, so do we allow confiscation or not? What if there are witnesses to your violent behavior prior to when the cops show up? Are then any complaints out on you? Is it an acceptable infringement on your 2nd Amendment rights for 14 days to avoid a possible shooting?

And you have to pay for your lawyer? Wanna guess how much that costs?

 

[2aguy]

It doesnt have to be mandatory

I was just making a suggestion

Yeah....but the democrats will work endlessly to make it mandatory.....then, if they get it, they will decide what kind of "safe," is required......and of course, you will need two of them, one for the gun, one for the ammo...and on and on....

 

[Coyote]

The Red flag law in this bill is little more than backdoor gun confiscation

Here Rep Lance Gooden explains why he voted no

Friends,

The school shooting in Uvalde is an unimaginable tragedy, and my heart continues to break for the families who lost a child, a mother, or a loved one. There are twenty-one families in Texas that are forever shattered, and I will do everything in my power to ensure a tragedy like this never happens again. We must secure our children’s schools, address the mental health crisis gripping our nation, and restore respect for the sanctity of human life.

However, the bills considered by the House of Representatives today would have accomplished none of those things. Instead, liberals in Congress used an unimaginable tragedy to push a series of empty and blatantly unconstitutional proposals that attack Americans’ Second Amendment rights and fail to address the root causes of gun violence. The bills passed by the House today were nothing short of a foot in the door to nationwide gun grabs, unconstitutional age restrictions, and European-style gun control. I could not and will not support that. While there is a laundry list of reasons I voted no on these bills today, I wanted to explain to you the most egregious provisions and why I voted against them.

1. Mandating Firearms be Stored and Locked at Home

The Supreme Court has already ruled Americans have a right to defend themselves in their own homes. A federal mandate on how their self-defense weapon is stored that limits their ability to protect themselves would clearly violate that right. While firearm safety in the home is vitally important, especially to parents of young children, if an intruder enters your home, the time it takes to unlock your firearm box and load your gun could be the difference between life and death. Americans have a right to determine the safest way to store their guns at home. This provision would have done nothing to prevent the shooting in Uvalde and instead only risks more lives, especially in rural communities where law enforcement response times are longer.

2. Prohibiting Third-Party Gun Purchases or Loans

Federal law already prohibits the transfer or third-party sale of a firearm to someone prohibited from possessing one. The extreme prohibition in this bill on third-party gun purchases goes much further and would severely limit an individual’s ability to purchase a firearm as a gift or loan a gun to a friend. In other words, it would criminalize purchasing a gun for a friend who is experiencing domestic violence and may need a firearm for self-defense. This would put well-intentioned Americans at risk of criminal prosecution, and even prison, for trying to protect their sister or friend in an abusive relationship or for loaning a friend a gun while hunting.

3. Confiscating Americans’ Firearms without Due Process

The bill would create new “red flag” laws that trample on Americans’ Second Amendment rights by allowing family or household members to alert law enforcement or petition a court requesting an individual’s firearm be confiscated without due process. While this may seem commonsense if an individual is a risk to their family or their household, the way the bill establishes this procedure is extreme and ripe for abuse. It would allow any individual who has cohabitated with another in the past year to file the petition, meaning a disgruntled ex-spouse or former roommate could submit endless petitions to harass an individual or deprive them of the means to defend themselves. In the United States, you are innocent until proven guilty, and your Constitutional rights cannot be denied without due process and equal protection under the law.

4. Raising the Age Limit on Gun Purchases to 21

The bill considered today would prohibit the sale of certain firearms to individuals under the age of 21, with very limited exceptions. If you can fight for your country or join your local police force at age 18, then the government should not prevent you from buying a firearm to protect yourself and your loved ones. More importantly, the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit has already ruled this type of prohibition is unconstitutional.

5. Banning “High Capacity” Firearms

Perhaps the most far-reaching provision in the bill is a limit on firearm magazine capacity of ten rounds, which would apply to an overwhelming majority of magazines sold with rifles and handguns. Most weapons today can accommodate fifteen to thirty rounds of ammunition, and studies have shown limiting access to these weapons would have no impact on reducing violent crime. This provision is nothing more than an attempt to limit the number of guns available on the market.

These provisions would only burden law-abiding Americans and restrict their right to bear arms while also failing to prevent violent crime from occurring. This is not a serious attempt to find solutions. We must work to understand and prevent what drives individuals to commit such evil acts of violence. We must strengthen our nation’s mental healthcare system. We must emphasize and work to restore the core nuclear family and traditional family values. These actions would prevent future crime, but gun control will not. In the meantime, and most importantly, we must secure our schools.

I support protecting our children and our communities, but I will not support policies that infringe on the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans. That’s why I voted no on the liberal gun grab today.


Sincerely,

And there is a perfect example of how Republicans value their guns more than their children. Any attempt at regulating guns is met with a resounding “No”.

Raising the age for buying guns to 21.
A lot of shootings are committed by people under that age. 59% of school shootings since 1970 were carried out by people under 21.

Source: Data show most school shootings carried out by young adults, teens

Red Flag Laws…while you can’t be totally sure that those who threatened mass showings would have carried them out, evidence supporting red flag laws is compelling.

"Red flag" laws test finding that mass shootings are preventable

Bipartisan gun reform talks in the Senate include a measure that would incentivize more states to enact such laws

www.axios.com

• A 2019 study examining the 15 deadliest public mass shootings in the U.S. between 1998 and 2018 found that "most incidents were indeed preventable based on information known about offenders in advance, and that the deadliest mass shooters exhibited more warning signs and were more often reported to law enforcement than other active shooters."

Mandating safe storage of guns would prevent children easily accessing guns and inadvertently shooting someone or deliberately doing so.


Adam Lanza was 20, and took his mother’s guns, after shooting her, to shoot up Newtown.

Salvador Ramos was 18, and legally bought his two AR15-style rifles the moment he turned 18. Multiple red flags on social media, conversations with classmates, history of torturing animals.

Nikolas Cruz, 19 yrs old. Multiple red flags and a long history of mental and disciplinary problems.

 

[Coyote]

Actually, Heller already said mandatory gun locks are unConstitutional, so mandatory storage would be too....

Heller needs to be overturned.

 

[BluesLegend]

Yeah....but the democrats will work endlessly to make it mandatory.....then, if they get it, they will decide what kind of "safe," is required......and of course, you will need two of them, one for the gun, one for the ammo...and on and on....

This is already law in NJ

 

[2aguy]

And there is a perfect example of how Republicans value their guns more than their children. Any attempt at regulating guns is met with a resounding “No”.

Raising the age for buying guns to 21.
A lot of shootings are committed by people under that age. 59% of school shootings since 1970 were carried out by people under 21.

Source: Data show most school shootings carried out by young adults, teens

Red Flag Laws…while you can’t be totally sure that those who threatened mass showings would have carried them out, evidence supporting red flag laws is compelling.

"Red flag" laws test finding that mass shootings are preventable

Bipartisan gun reform talks in the Senate include a measure that would incentivize more states to enact such laws

www.axios.com

• A 2019 study examining the 15 deadliest public mass shootings in the U.S. between 1998 and 2018 found that "most incidents were indeed preventable based on information known about offenders in advance, and that the deadliest mass shooters exhibited more warning signs and were more often reported to law enforcement than other active shooters."

Mandating safe storage of guns would prevent children easily accessing guns and inadvertently shooting someone or deliberately doing so.


Adam Lanza was 20, and took his mother’s guns, after shooting her, to shoot up Newtown.

Salvador Ramos was 18, and legally bought his two AR15-style rifles the moment he turned 18. Multiple red flags on social media, conversations with classmates, history of torturing animals.

Nikolas Cruz, 19 yrs old. Multiple red flags and a long history of mental and disciplinary problems.

No....stupid gun laws are met with no....

---the majority, almost all....are committed by people over 21....

Breaking down Mass Public Shooting data from 1998 through May 2022: Info on weapons used; gun-free zones; racial, age, and gender demographics

The Excel file with detailed information on the 88 mass public shootings from 1998 through May 15, 2022 is available here. With all the discussion about having another assault weapon ban, only 14% …

crimeresearch.org

----Red Flag laws are nothing more than your wet dream of SWATing gun owners........you will be able to put gun owners on lists and they won't be able to defend against them without lots of money........


The cops and FBI did know about the shooters.....and did nothing.....so even if they had Red Flag laws, the fact that they did nothing with the other shooters is a good indication they wouldn't have done anything with new shooters....New York has Red Flag laws....didn't stop the Buffalo Shooter...Texas has extreme protection orders......family, friends, his schools, the local police all knew the kid was a dangerous nut......

We don't support gun laws that are nothing more than the next baby step to making it more expensive and legally dangerous for normal gun owners, while doing nothing.......again.....doing nothing, to actually stop criminals or mass public shooters.......

You know they do nothing, but you get to ratchet down on the Right, and then come back and zero in on banning and confiscating guns.....when the previously crap you pass does nothing.....like we told you it would do nothing.....you come back and say...now we need more...

 

[Natural Citizen]

It's always ''for the childrens,'' isn't it?

 

[2aguy]

And there is a perfect example of how Republicans value their guns more than their children. Any attempt at regulating guns is met with a resounding “No”.

Raising the age for buying guns to 21.
A lot of shootings are committed by people under that age. 59% of school shootings since 1970 were carried out by people under 21.

Source: Data show most school shootings carried out by young adults, teens

Red Flag Laws…while you can’t be totally sure that those who threatened mass showings would have carried them out, evidence supporting red flag laws is compelling.

"Red flag" laws test finding that mass shootings are preventable

Bipartisan gun reform talks in the Senate include a measure that would incentivize more states to enact such laws

www.axios.com

• A 2019 study examining the 15 deadliest public mass shootings in the U.S. between 1998 and 2018 found that "most incidents were indeed preventable based on information known about offenders in advance, and that the deadliest mass shooters exhibited more warning signs and were more often reported to law enforcement than other active shooters."

Mandating safe storage of guns would prevent children easily accessing guns and inadvertently shooting someone or deliberately doing so.


Adam Lanza was 20, and took his mother’s guns, after shooting her, to shoot up Newtown.

Salvador Ramos was 18, and legally bought his two AR15-style rifles the moment he turned 18. Multiple red flags on social media, conversations with classmates, history of torturing animals.

Nikolas Cruz, 19 yrs old. Multiple red flags and a long history of mental and disciplinary problems.

No....mandating safe gun storage wouldn't have stopped the Sandy Hook shooter since he murdered his mother....you idiot.....

The Texas shooter did have warning signs....all over the fucking place and they didn't do anything because the family, friends, the school, and the local police did nothing with the actual Emergency Protective Orders they already have........

Had they arrested him for torturing and killing cats....felony....for shooting people with a BB gun...felony.....or committed him for attacking fellow students, cutting his face, violence at home or in public....he would have already have popped on current, Federally mandated background checks...

Making up a new Red Flag law wouldn't have done anything because they already could have put him in the database had they used the current Emergency Protective orders that Texas already has.....

You dumb ass...

Dittos the Parkland shooter......warning signs all over and the cops, family, friends, and school didn't do anything...making Red Flag laws useless.....

But...if you get them....you can start calling the police on gun owners that you know, and get their guns taken without a day in court.......and to defend themselves, it will cost them a fortune....all to the good for you and your gun grabbers....

And nothing will have been done to save any children.

 

[2aguy]

It's always ''for the childrens,'' isn't it?

Until they are putting the kids in the ground with their parents....after they take power....

 

[Natural Citizen]

Until they are putting the kids in the ground with their parents....after they take power....

I wouldn't give a bucket of piss for their futures, in terms of power. At least not for some time.

By their fruits, they will be remembered.

Let em whine...

 

[Coyote]

No....stupid gun laws are met with no....

---the majority, almost all....are committed by people over 21....

View attachment 656636

Refer back to my post, I specified school shootings. Even in your example, 16% are committed by those under 21. That is a significant chunk.

Breaking down Mass Public Shooting data from 1998 through May 2022: Info on weapons used; gun-free zones; racial, age, and gender demographics

The Excel file with detailed information on the 88 mass public shootings from 1998 through May 15, 2022 is available here. With all the discussion about having another assault weapon ban, only 14% …

crimeresearch.org

----Red Flag laws are nothing more than your wet dream of SWATing gun owners........you will be able to put gun owners on lists and they won't be able to defend against them without lots of money........

Sure, I mean we can’t be infringing on tbe rights of violent nutters can we?

The cops and FBI did know about the shooters.....and did nothing.....so even if they had Red Flag laws, the fact that they did nothing with the other shooters is a good indication they wouldn't have done anything with new shooters....New York has Red Flag laws....didn't stop the Buffalo Shooter...Texas has extreme protection orders......family, friends, his schools, the local police all knew the kid was a dangerous nut......

They CAN’T do anything without laws in place that would allow it.

And Texas has some of the loosest gun laws in the country. They all knew he was a dangerous nut but no laws allowed them to act on it.

We don't support gun laws that are nothing more than the next baby step to making it more expensive and legally dangerous for normal gun owners, while doing nothing.......again.....doing nothing, to actually stop criminals or mass public shooters.......

You don’t support ANY gun laws but those punishing the perpetrator AFTER the fact rather than preventing the fact. As I pointed out, simp,y raising the age where you can legally own a gun would have prevented some of these.

You know they do nothing, but you get to ratchet down on the Right, and then come back and zero in on banning and confiscating guns.....when the previously crap you pass does nothing.....like we told you it would do nothing.....you come back and say...now we need more...

Like I showed you, some of those school shootings could have been prevented by the very modest ideas in this bill, but you won’t have even that.

 

[Coyote]

No....mandating safe gun storage wouldn't have stopped the Sandy Hook shooter since he murdered his mother....you idiot.....

Idiot. If she had the guns locked in a safe he couldn’t have gotten hold of them to kill her.

The Texas shooter did have warning signs....all over the fucking place and they didn't do anything because the family, friends, the school, and the local police did nothing with the actual Emergency Protective Orders they already have........

Under current law what could they have done and what law would have allowed it?

Had they arrested him for torturing and killing cats....felony....for shooting people with a BB gun...felony.....or committed him for attacking fellow students, cutting his face, violence at home or in public....he would have already have popped on current, Federally mandated background checks...

That is part of the problem. On the other hand it is very difficult to commit people involuntarily. You are justifying removing rights (freedom) by involuntarily committing a person rather than removing another right (firearms) for the same reason. If it is a slippery slope for you in regards to firearms…well why not for freedom?

Making up a new Red Flag law wouldn't have done anything because they already could have put him in the database had they used the current Emergency Protective orders that Texas already has.....

You dumb ass...

Does your vocabulary ever extend beyond “dumbass” and “moron”?

Dittos the Parkland shooter......warning signs all over and the cops, family, friends, and school didn't do anything...making Red Flag laws useless.....

But...if you get them....you can start calling the police on gun owners that you know, and get their guns taken without a day in court.......and to defend themselves, it will cost them a fortune....all to the good for you and your gun grabbers....

And nothing will have been done to save any children.

Florida didn’t have a red flag law prior to Parkland, in fact it was Parkland that finally forced it. Since then, it has been used 3,500 times (as of 2020).

Florida 'red flag' gun law used 3,500 times since Parkland

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) — A 23-year-old man who posted on Facebook, “I don't know why I don't go on a killing spree

apnews.com

 

[Mac-7]

And there is a perfect example of how Republicans value their guns more than their children. Any attempt at regulating guns is met with a resounding “No”.

Raising the age for buying guns to 21.
A lot of shootings are committed by people under that age. 59% of school shootings since 1970 were carried out by people under 21.

Source: Data show most school shootings carried out by young adults, teens

Red Flag Laws…while you can’t be totally sure that those who threatened mass showings would have carried them out, evidence supporting red flag laws is compelling.

"Red flag" laws test finding that mass shootings are preventable

Bipartisan gun reform talks in the Senate include a measure that would incentivize more states to enact such laws

www.axios.com

• A 2019 study examining the 15 deadliest public mass shootings in the U.S. between 1998 and 2018 found that "most incidents were indeed preventable based on information known about offenders in advance, and that the deadliest mass shooters exhibited more warning signs and were more often reported to law enforcement than other active shooters."

Mandating safe storage of guns would prevent children easily accessing guns and inadvertently shooting someone or deliberately doing so.


Adam Lanza was 20, and took his mother’s guns, after shooting her, to shoot up Newtown.

Salvador Ramos was 18, and legally bought his two AR15-style rifles the moment he turned 18. Multiple red flags on social media, conversations with classmates, history of torturing animals.

Nikolas Cruz, 19 yrs old. Multiple red flags and a long history of mental and disciplinary problems.

The authorities are notoriously stupid and incompetent when it comes to predicting who is a danger and who isnt

The russians warned the FBI that the boston bombers were a terrorist threat and the g-men did nothing

 

[Coyote]

The authorities are notoriously stupid and incompetent when it comes to predicting who is a danger and who isnt

The russians warned the FBI that the boston bombers were a terrorist threat and the g-men did nothing

I agree it is hard, usually because of a lack of specific enough information that is actionable at the time. But red flag laws are temporary, not permanent, and they do require court to approve. Guns are rights with responsibilities.

 

[Failzero]

Confiscation my ass. Arizona will leave the union before we give up anything especially to the dirty branch bait sons of bitches we have in there now. They will realize real quick they put their pants on one leg at a time, They can't bull shit me with their false stats. This is what war is and work of power hungry scum. If that fuck Joe pulls his head out of whos ever ass he has it in and I can save a dime I'll buy targets for their backs. Remember Joe we all know you are not our president and it won't take to much for some patriot to delete your tyrant ass. I protect my family from fucks like you trying to strip us of our liberty teeth. NEVER WILL I BOW DOWN, DISARM OR KEEP MY EGGS IN ONE BASKET. Joe you and your keepers are the nation' s enemy Same goes to all willing to break their oath and never had any honor to begin with. Make sure you take your 'save the children' and SHOVE it up your ass you uncaring tyrant bitch.

Arizona will go the way of Colorado & New Mexico in two election cycles tops