The Troops are concerned about gays serving openly.

[Spoonman]

Fact is that if a senior NCO wants to screw with a troop there are hundreds if not thousands of ways that NCO can make the troops life a living hell. And they can do it without breaking the UCMJ. Do I expect this to happen? Hell yes, many many times in many many units. And in most cases it won't be reported and in 99% of those that are reported there will be no infraction of the UCMJ, at most the NCO will be told to lighten up.

Facts people.

Bingo, exactly what I;ve been saying Ollie. The focus becomes shifted off the job at hand. And the job at hand here can be a matter of life and death. people are no longer focused on this is my duty but more on the now openly gay guy. Some people will be totally ok with it, others wont. now you have a divide snd people are foreced to chose sides over an issue that shouldn't even be an issue. I am not saying gays should not have equal rights I am saying the military isn't the battle ground to test those rights.

 

[bodecea]

Fact is that if a senior NCO wants to screw with a troop there are hundreds if not thousands of ways that NCO can make the troops life a living hell. And they can do it without breaking the UCMJ. Do I expect this to happen? Hell yes, many many times in many many units. And in most cases it won't be reported and in 99% of those that are reported there will be no infraction of the UCMJ, at most the NCO will be told to lighten up.

Facts people.

Bingo, exactly what I;ve been saying Ollie. The focus becomes shifted off the job at hand. And the job at hand here can be a matter of life and death. people are no longer focused on this is my duty but more on the now openly gay guy. Some people will be totally ok with it, others wont. now you have a divide snd people are foreced to chose sides over an issue that shouldn't even be an issue. I am not saying gays should not have equal rights I am saying the military isn't the battle ground to test those rights.

Why?

 

[SFC Ollie]

Fact is that if a senior NCO wants to screw with a troop there are hundreds if not thousands of ways that NCO can make the troops life a living hell. And they can do it without breaking the UCMJ. Do I expect this to happen? Hell yes, many many times in many many units. And in most cases it won't be reported and in 99% of those that are reported there will be no infraction of the UCMJ, at most the NCO will be told to lighten up.

Facts people.

Bingo, exactly what I;ve been saying Ollie. The focus becomes shifted off the job at hand. And the job at hand here can be a matter of life and death. people are no longer focused on this is my duty but more on the now openly gay guy. Some people will be totally ok with it, others wont. now you have a divide snd people are foreced to chose sides over an issue that shouldn't even be an issue. I am not saying gays should not have equal rights I am saying the military isn't the battle ground to test those rights.

Why?

Because some senior NCO's can be real assholes. Do you really think they will all accept this and start to march to your drummer? Some will hate it, they won't show it, but there is nothing you can do to change it. Some are still racists. same thing. nothing you can do about it. I have told junior NCOs to lay off certain troops. Never asked why the NCO didn't like them.

 

[bodecea]

Bingo, exactly what I;ve been saying Ollie. The focus becomes shifted off the job at hand. And the job at hand here can be a matter of life and death. people are no longer focused on this is my duty but more on the now openly gay guy. Some people will be totally ok with it, others wont. now you have a divide snd people are foreced to chose sides over an issue that shouldn't even be an issue. I am not saying gays should not have equal rights I am saying the military isn't the battle ground to test those rights.

Why?

Because some senior NCO's can be real assholes. Do you really think they will all accept this and start to march to your drummer? Some will hate it, they won't show it, but there is nothing you can do to change it. Some are still racists. same thing. nothing you can do about it. I have told junior NCOs to lay off certain troops. Never asked why the NCO didn't like them.

Yeah...and who's to say that some of those senior NCOs aren't some of the gay soldiers? And the Os? How about us?

 

[SFC Ollie]

Why?

Because some senior NCO's can be real assholes. Do you really think they will all accept this and start to march to your drummer? Some will hate it, they won't show it, but there is nothing you can do to change it. Some are still racists. same thing. nothing you can do about it. I have told junior NCOs to lay off certain troops. Never asked why the NCO didn't like them.

Yeah...and who's to say that some of those senior NCOs aren't some of the gay soldiers? And the Os? How about us?

Almost anything is possible. I've told you how I feel about the subject, and I've explained what I believe will happen. Now I'll just kick back and watch and pray. Again I hope that rightwinger is correct. We shall see.

 

[Spoonman]

Fact is that if a senior NCO wants to screw with a troop there are hundreds if not thousands of ways that NCO can make the troops life a living hell. And they can do it without breaking the UCMJ. Do I expect this to happen? Hell yes, many many times in many many units. And in most cases it won't be reported and in 99% of those that are reported there will be no infraction of the UCMJ, at most the NCO will be told to lighten up.

Facts people.

Bingo, exactly what I;ve been saying Ollie. The focus becomes shifted off the job at hand. And the job at hand here can be a matter of life and death. people are no longer focused on this is my duty but more on the now openly gay guy. Some people will be totally ok with it, others wont. now you have a divide snd people are foreced to chose sides over an issue that shouldn't even be an issue. I am not saying gays should not have equal rights I am saying the military isn't the battle ground to test those rights.

Why?

because it still is an issue for some people

 

[Grace]

Just because I think it fits the current topic at hand.

 

[Seawytch]

Bingo, exactly what I;ve been saying Ollie. The focus becomes shifted off the job at hand. And the job at hand here can be a matter of life and death. people are no longer focused on this is my duty but more on the now openly gay guy. Some people will be totally ok with it, others wont. now you have a divide snd people are foreced to chose sides over an issue that shouldn't even be an issue. I am not saying gays should not have equal rights I am saying the military isn't the battle ground to test those rights.

Why?

because it still is an issue for some people

Do you have any idea what an "issue" it was for people when we desegregated the military? A month before Truman desegregated, a Gallup poll showed 63% of Americans being opposed to racial integration in the military (70% of Americans support lifting the ban).

Were you aware that President Truman conducted a survey prior to integrating the military? Care to venture a guess at what the military attitudes were regarding integration? Only 26% supported integration. Now, if you were to look at the DADT Pentagon survey, you would see that about the same number of people that supported integration are opposed to lifting the ban.

Now imagine that Truman had NOT integrated the armed forces because it was "an issue for some people".

 

[CountofTuscany]

Why?

because it still is an issue for some people

Do you have any idea what an "issue" it was for people when we desegregated the military? A month before Truman desegregated, a Gallup poll showed 63% of Americans being opposed to racial integration in the military (70% of Americans support lifting the ban).

Were you aware that President Truman conducted a survey prior to integrating the military? Care to venture a guess at what the military attitudes were regarding integration? Only 26% supported integration. Now, if you were to look at the DADT Pentagon survey, you would see that about the same number of people that supported integration are opposed to lifting the ban.

Now imagine that Truman had NOT integrated the armed forces because it was "an issue for some people".

How can 63% be against and 70% for? What kind of fuzy math is that?

 

[CountofTuscany]

Bingo, exactly what I;ve been saying Ollie. The focus becomes shifted off the job at hand. And the job at hand here can be a matter of life and death. people are no longer focused on this is my duty but more on the now openly gay guy. Some people will be totally ok with it, others wont. now you have a divide snd people are foreced to chose sides over an issue that shouldn't even be an issue. I am not saying gays should not have equal rights I am saying the military isn't the battle ground to test those rights.

Why?

Because some senior NCO's can be real assholes. Do you really think they will all accept this and start to march to your drummer? Some will hate it, they won't show it, but there is nothing you can do to change it. Some are still racists. same thing. nothing you can do about it. I have told junior NCOs to lay off certain troops. Never asked why the NCO didn't like them.

Yes, it will cause tension in the ranks. Not what you need when you are expected to have each others backs.

 

[bodecea]

Bingo, exactly what I;ve been saying Ollie. The focus becomes shifted off the job at hand. And the job at hand here can be a matter of life and death. people are no longer focused on this is my duty but more on the now openly gay guy. Some people will be totally ok with it, others wont. now you have a divide snd people are foreced to chose sides over an issue that shouldn't even be an issue. I am not saying gays should not have equal rights I am saying the military isn't the battle ground to test those rights.

Why?

because it still is an issue for some people

And that is a small number and getting smaller...btw, since when is the military driven by what members don't "like"?

 

[bodecea]

Why?

Because some senior NCO's can be real assholes. Do you really think they will all accept this and start to march to your drummer? Some will hate it, they won't show it, but there is nothing you can do to change it. Some are still racists. same thing. nothing you can do about it. I have told junior NCOs to lay off certain troops. Never asked why the NCO didn't like them.

Yes, it will cause tension in the ranks. Not what you need when you are expected to have each others backs.

Why?

 

[High_Gravity]

Fact is that if a senior NCO wants to screw with a troop there are hundreds if not thousands of ways that NCO can make the troops life a living hell. And they can do it without breaking the UCMJ. Do I expect this to happen? Hell yes, many many times in many many units. And in most cases it won't be reported and in 99% of those that are reported there will be no infraction of the UCMJ, at most the NCO will be told to lighten up.

Facts people.

Ollie has a point with his post, I don't think its fair but this happened to many Black Soldiers after they integrated the Military. In the Military you are on your own there is no union to run to for help, I had people higher ups in the service give me a hard time because they disagreed with my partying lifestyle and drinking, it would have been 100X worse if I was gay.

 

[Gadawg73]

My brother stated that smoking was a big issue with many soldiers when he was in Nam. Rule of thumb was poncho over head so NVA could not see the fire but he said he wanted no part of being near any smokers. Sometimes they would screw up and you could see the fire from the cig.
So since some were not in support and against smoking in the military we should ban smoking or have DSDT?

 

[High_Gravity]

My brother stated that smoking was a big issue with many soldiers when he was in Nam. Rule of thumb was poncho over head so NVA could not see the fire but he said he wanted no part of being near any smokers. Sometimes they would screw up and you could see the fire from the cig.
So since some were not in support and against smoking in the military we should ban smoking or have DSDT?

I don't know about Nam but when I was deployed people were smoking like chimneys, because thats one of the few things you are allowed. I don't think it would be fair to take it away, even though I did hear rumours of some bases wanting to outlaw smoking completely.

 

[Gadawg73]

Fact is that if a senior NCO wants to screw with a troop there are hundreds if not thousands of ways that NCO can make the troops life a living hell. And they can do it without breaking the UCMJ. Do I expect this to happen? Hell yes, many many times in many many units. And in most cases it won't be reported and in 99% of those that are reported there will be no infraction of the UCMJ, at most the NCO will be told to lighten up.

Facts people.

Ollie has a point with his post, I don't think its fair but this happened to many Black Soldiers after they integrated the Military. In the Military you are on your own there is no union to run to for help, I had people higher ups in the service give me a hard time because they disagreed with my partying lifestyle and drinking, it would have been 100X worse if I was gay.

He does.
And Ollie looks just like a good friend of mine that was also a lifer in the Army 1969-1994. Spitting image of him!

 

[Douger]

How long before they start issuing condoms and Anal Glow at butt camp ?

 

[High_Gravity]

How long before they start issuing condoms and Anal Glow at butt camp ?

Condoms are already issued.

 

[Gadawg73]

How long before they start issuing condoms and Anal Glow at butt camp ?

What color do you prefer?

 

[Spoonman]

Just because I think it fits the current topic at hand.

exactly, these people can't handle the truth.