The tremendous power of the social paradigms created by WWII - Part I - The citizen

[P F Tinmore]

No the blockade went on in 2007 the attacks on Israel started in August 2005.

Israel was attacking Gaza before 2005.

 

[Phoenall]

UNRWA, the UN Relief and Works Agency. In the decades of its existence, it has not solved or even diminished the Palesinian refugee problem;

UNRWA is an aid agency. They have no authority to find solutions to the problem.

It is the UNCCP that is charged with finding a solution based on Resolution 194.

Try reading their remit again and see that they were set up to assist refugees assimilate into other societies. They failed because arab society refused to allow then to assimilate, and the refugees refused to assimilate meaning they were refugees until Israel was destroyed.

 

[Phoenall]

No the blockade went on in 2007 the attacks on Israel started in August 2005.

Israel was attacking Gaza before 2005.

No Israel was responding to terrorst attacks before then, it was when the arab muslims declared war again that Israel started to respond heavy handedly

 

[P F Tinmore]

UNRWA, the UN Relief and Works Agency. In the decades of its existence, it has not solved or even diminished the Palesinian refugee problem;

UNRWA is an aid agency. They have no authority to find solutions to the problem.

It is the UNCCP that is charged with finding a solution based on Resolution 194.

Try reading their remit again and see that they were set up to assist refugees assimilate into other societies. They failed because arab society refused to allow then to assimilate, and the refugees refused to assimilate meaning they were refugees until Israel was destroyed.

Quote passage with link?

 

[Phoenall]

UNRWA, the UN Relief and Works Agency. In the decades of its existence, it has not solved or even diminished the Palesinian refugee problem;

UNRWA is an aid agency. They have no authority to find solutions to the problem.

It is the UNCCP that is charged with finding a solution based on Resolution 194.

Try reading their remit again and see that they were set up to assist refugees assimilate into other societies. They failed because arab society refused to allow then to assimilate, and the refugees refused to assimilate meaning they were refugees until Israel was destroyed.

Quote passage with link?

The High Commission is mandated to help refugees get on with their lives as quickly as possible, and works to settle them rapidly, most frequently in countries other than those they fled. UNRWA policy, however, states that the Palestinian Arabs who fled from Israel in the course of the 1948 war, plus all their descendants, are to be considered refugees until a just and durable solution can be found by political actors. UNRWA was specifically designed not to proscribe how the outcome of an agreement would take shape


UNRWA - Wikipedia

 

[P F Tinmore]

UNRWA policy, however, states that the Palestinian Arabs who fled from Israel in the course of the 1948 war, plus all their descendants, are to be considered refugees until a just and durable solution can be found by political actors. UNRWA was specifically designed not to proscribe how the outcome of an agreement would take shape

That is what I said. Thank you.

 

[Shusha]

These posts are a mess. The premise seems to be that certain types of "segregation" are immoral and certain types are morally acceptable. But the objective parameters of these dividing lines are not clear.

Segregation of citizens based on ethnicity is immoral, but immigration based on ethnicity is not immoral?
"Racial enclaves" are immoral, but self-determining, self-governing nation States are not immoral?
Fences are immoral, well, sometimes?
Some people seem to have birthrights?
One group is portrayed as dehumanized, peaceful and non-violent and the other group is portrayed superhuman violent murderers. (The whole "superhumanized Jews who have extra rights" is just a re-wording of the typical antisemitic "chosen people" canard.)

So, José , if you want to discuss this, please come up with a clear, objective outline of acceptable and non-acceptable "segregation" with no mention of ethnicity so the rest of us can try to grasp what it is you are trying to say.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I just want to make it clear, as I did in Posting #46, that whether we are talking about an International Armed Conflict (IAC - Protocol I to GCIV, Article 51) --- or --- a Non-International Armed Conflict (NAIC - Protocol II to GCIV, Article 13) the original intent of the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) on the matter of protections for the civilian population is exactly the same.

ICRC Customary IHL:

Rule 1. The parties to the conflict must at all times distinguish between civilians and combatants. Attacks may only be directed against combatants. Attacks must not be directed against civilians.

Rule 2. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.
​

Remember: It is criminal behavior for Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) to:

• Commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,
• Commit acts of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,
• Commit intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons,
​

3. Civilians shall enjoy the protection afforded by this Part, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.

Israeli settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of the settler colonial occupation.

You cannot separate them out as innocent civilians.

(COMMENT)

But the greater point is the theme to which you have demonstrated here. You are actively trying to find ways to legally attack civilians. This, in itself, is an encouragement violence. What gets me is that ALL Arab Palestinians know instinctively that it is wrong. The HoAP (as well as yourself) know that propaganda for war is prohibited by law; just as advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility and violence is prohibited by law. (Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights)

Both in the general context, where Palestinian Parents send their children to Summer Camps. Where these Camps teach the child to be a suicide bomber. Where the general population supports a general education system that promotes the concept that Jihad and Arm Struggle are the means to achieve political and diplomatic goals. In terms of moral culpability, the people the set the conditions for attacks against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature, the advocate is just as culpable. Incitement of these acts (kidnapping and murder, ambushes and bombings, hijackings and hostage taking, etc) intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. And the Arab Palestinian has made it perfectly clear that by policy, threats and deeds that if they ever came to control the Jewish National Home (JNH), the HoAP would begin the end (dismantalment) of all that has been accomplished.

Neighter HAMAS or Fatah are committed to establishing a peaceful settlements. Hell, they cannot even agree amoung themselves what "Palestine, The State of," actually means. All they can agree on is violence. And those that attempt to incite or encourage violence are just as culpable as the perpetrators.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Where the general population supports a general education system that promotes the concept that Jihad and Arm Struggle are the means to achieve political and diplomatic goals.

What about those in defense of their country?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I just want to make it clear, as I did in Posting #46, that whether we are talking about an International Armed Conflict (IAC - Protocol I to GCIV, Article 51) --- or --- a Non-International Armed Conflict (NAIC - Protocol II to GCIV, Article 13) the original intent of the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) on the matter of protections for the civilian population is exactly the same.

ICRC Customary IHL:

Rule 1. The parties to the conflict must at all times distinguish between civilians and combatants. Attacks may only be directed against combatants. Attacks must not be directed against civilians.

Rule 2. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.
​

Remember: It is criminal behavior for Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) to:

• Commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,
• Commit acts of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,
• Commit intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons,
​

3. Civilians shall enjoy the protection afforded by this Part, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.

Israeli settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of the settler colonial occupation.

You cannot separate them out as innocent civilians.

(COMMENT)

But the greater point is the theme to which you have demonstrated here. You are actively trying to find ways to legally attack civilians. This, in itself, is an encouragement violence. What gets me is that ALL Arab Palestinians know instinctively that it is wrong. The HoAP (as well as yourself) know that propaganda for war is prohibited by law; just as advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility and violence is prohibited by law. (Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights)

Both in the general context, where Palestinian Parents send their children to Summer Camps. Where these Camps teach the child to be a suicide bomber. Where the general population supports a general education system that promotes the concept that Jihad and Arm Struggle are the means to achieve political and diplomatic goals. In terms of moral culpability, the people the set the conditions for attacks against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature, the advocate is just as culpable. Incitement of these acts (kidnapping and murder, ambushes and bombings, hijackings and hostage taking, etc) intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. And the Arab Palestinian has made it perfectly clear that by policy, threats and deeds that if they ever came to control the Jewish National Home (JNH), the HoAP would begin the end (dismantalment) of all that has been accomplished.

Neighter HAMAS or Fatah are committed to establishing a peaceful settlements. Hell, they cannot even agree amoung themselves what "Palestine, The State of," actually means. All they can agree on is violence. And those that attempt to incite or encourage violence are just as culpable as the perpetrators.

Most Respectfully,
R

Still shoveling Israeli shit, I see.

 

[Shusha]

You are actively trying to find ways to legally attack civilians. This, in itself, is an encouragement violence.

THANK YOU!

 

[Shusha]

Still shoveling Israeli shit, I see.

Translation: I have no reasonable counter-argument.

 

[Phoenall]

UNRWA policy, however, states that the Palestinian Arabs who fled from Israel in the course of the 1948 war, plus all their descendants, are to be considered refugees until a just and durable solution can be found by political actors. UNRWA was specifically designed not to proscribe how the outcome of an agreement would take shape

That is what I said. Thank you.

AND IT MEANS THEY HAD TO RELOCATE THE REFUGEES IN OTHER NATIONS, WHICH THEY FAIL TO DO

 

[Phoenall]

Where the general population supports a general education system that promotes the concept that Jihad and Arm Struggle are the means to achieve political and diplomatic goals.

What about those in defense of their country?

Then why are they in Israel when their country is Egypt, Syria, Saudi, Iraq, Iran etc ?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Is there a country there? What country are you citing?

Where the general population supports a general education system that promotes the concept that Jihad and Arm Struggle are the means to achieve political and diplomatic goals.

What about those in defense of their country?

(COMMENT)

• I understand it to be a given, that nothing I say or present, whether "international law" or treaty law, will only elicit the response that I am: "shoveling Israeli shit." I get it! The you believe that the Palestinians are above the GCIV and the ICCPR or the Charter.​

But what I would like to ask is:

• Will there ever com a time in which the Palestinians will be subject to the Law?​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I just want to make it clear, as I did in Posting #46, that whether we are talking about an International Armed Conflict (IAC - Protocol I to GCIV, Article 51) --- or --- a Non-International Armed Conflict (NAIC - Protocol II to GCIV, Article 13) the original intent of the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) on the matter of protections for the civilian population is exactly the same.

ICRC Customary IHL:

Rule 1. The parties to the conflict must at all times distinguish between civilians and combatants. Attacks may only be directed against combatants. Attacks must not be directed against civilians.

Rule 2. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.
​

Remember: It is criminal behavior for Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) to:

• Commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,
• Commit acts of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power,
• Commit intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons,
​

3. Civilians shall enjoy the protection afforded by this Part, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.

Israeli settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of the settler colonial occupation.

You cannot separate them out as innocent civilians.

(COMMENT)

But the greater point is the theme to which you have demonstrated here. You are actively trying to find ways to legally attack civilians. This, in itself, is an encouragement violence. What gets me is that ALL Arab Palestinians know instinctively that it is wrong. The HoAP (as well as yourself) know that propaganda for war is prohibited by law; just as advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility and violence is prohibited by law. (Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights)

Both in the general context, where Palestinian Parents send their children to Summer Camps. Where these Camps teach the child to be a suicide bomber. Where the general population supports a general education system that promotes the concept that Jihad and Arm Struggle are the means to achieve political and diplomatic goals. In terms of moral culpability, the people the set the conditions for attacks against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature, the advocate is just as culpable. Incitement of these acts (kidnapping and murder, ambushes and bombings, hijackings and hostage taking, etc) intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. And the Arab Palestinian has made it perfectly clear that by policy, threats and deeds that if they ever came to control the Jewish National Home (JNH), the HoAP would begin the end (dismantalment) of all that has been accomplished.

Neighter HAMAS or Fatah are committed to establishing a peaceful settlements. Hell, they cannot even agree amoung themselves what "Palestine, The State of," actually means. All they can agree on is violence. And those that attempt to incite or encourage violence are just as culpable as the perpetrators.

Most Respectfully,
R

Still shoveling Israeli shit, I see.

So now the Geneva conventions are ISRAELI SHIT ? Sums up your whole reason for being here to attack the Jews

 

[P F Tinmore]

• Will there ever come a time in which the Palestinians will be subject to the Law?

Sometime, hopefully. That is what the Palestinians have been calling for for a long time.

 

[Shusha]

So now the Geneva conventions are ISRAELI SHIT ?

Funny how the Geneva Conventions are Israeli shit until we start talking about Article 49(6).

 

[Phoenall]

• Will there ever come a time in which the Palestinians will be subject to the Law?

Sometime, hopefully. That is what the Palestinians have been calling for for a long time.

And the way they are going they will end up with nothing when the rest of the world tuns on them

 

[José]

Originally posted by Shusha
These posts are a mess.

Ok, here's the skinny on the second part of this thread:

From 1948 to today the border guards who man these watchtowers have arrested, assaulted, maimed and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians whose crime was trying to go unarmed from Gaza City, Khan Yunis, etc... to other parts of their homeland.

This is the the average westerner's appraisal of the jewish state:

Originally posted by Coyote
Israel is supposed to be a beacon of light in the ME.

The tremendous power of the social paradigms created by WWII - Part I - The citizen

Post #163

A murderous racial dictatorship that has been exterminating for the last 68 years the very same people it should treat as its citizens being described as (almost) "a beacon of light in the Middle East", (as being well on its way to becoming) "a beacon of light in the Middle East".

If this is not the dehumanization of the palestinian people and the superhumanization of the jewish people, a kind of free pass westerners give to Israel (due to the Holocaust) that no other country enjoys, then the concepts of superhumanization and dehumanization themselves have no meaning at all.

You can call the reality of the superhumanization of the jewish people in the post-WWII world an "anti-semitic canard" but it doesn't make the phenomenon any less real.