The tremendous power of the social paradigms created by WWII - Part I - The citizen

José

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Some of you may remember the thread I created last year about the dehumanization of the palestinian people in which I explained how WWII represented a huge paradigm shift in the way western states defined themselves and the human value assigned to the world Jewry and the native inhabitants of Palestine.

Dehumanization Palestinians most powerful enemy US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

This thread will provide a series of practical examples that will show how all these paradigms are not merely arcane, abstract concepts with little to no connection with the "real world".

They are real, concrete ideas that model the way of thinking of most countries around the world, both governments and citizens.

This is the first thread of a trilogy that will prove the big impact of these paradigms.

I will "extract" these paradigms from the threads and posts of an average western citizen, our fellow member Coyote first, and later, from the posts of JakeStarkey, Sallow, High Gravity, Sealybobo, etc...

So let's briefly recap the paradigms WWII created:

1 - Total racial equality among all racial groups of a given country.

2 - The super humanization of the jewish people.

3 - The dehumanization of the palestinian people.

4 - The redefinition of western countries as multi-racial nations without a predominant ethnic identity
 
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José

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This was a thread Coyote created about the process of desegregation in the southern states... it tells the story of the first black american kid to attend a white school.
 
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José

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Happy Birthday Ruby Bridges

A few days late....

Such a tiny girl, surrounded by such tall and serious men, doing something incredibly brave.



Every morning a group of forty or more women, known as the “cheerleaders”, shouted obscene, racist threats at Ruby as she entered Frantz Elementary. Ruby received instruction in isolation from her teacher, Mrs. Barbara Henry. Even to use the restroom, she had to be escorted by the marshals, and Ruby ate lunch alone in the classroom every day.
 

Disir

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Except there is no dehumanization of the Palestinian people, but do go on. In fact, don't you find it rather odd that there is no mention on these boards of the factories that Palestinians and Israelis work at. Can you tell me why that is?
 

Disir

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Can you tell me who benefits from keeping those discussions from happening?
 

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Some of you may remember the thread I created last year about the dehumanization of the palestinian people in which I explained how WWII represented a huge paradigm shift in the way western states defined themselves and the human value assigned to the world Jewry and the native inhabitants of Palestine.

Dehumanization Palestinians most powerful enemy US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

This thread will provide a series of practical examples that will show how all these paradigms are not merely arcane, abstract concepts with little to no connection with the "real world".

They are real, concrete ideas that model the way of thinking of most countries around the world, both governments and citizens.

This is the first thread of a trilogy that will prove the big impact of these paradigms.

I will "extract" these paradigms from the threads and posts of an average western citizen, our fellow member Coyote first, and later, from the posts of JakeStarkey, Sallow, High Gravity, Sealybobo, etc...

So let's briefly recap the paradigms WWII created:

1 - Total racial equality among all racial groups of a given country.

2 - The super humanization of the jewish people.

3 - The dehumanization of the palestinian people.

4 - The redefinition of western countries as multi-racial nations without a predominant ethnic identity
The world of today was forged by the events WWI, where evil had a beginning and fear had a beginning..
 
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José

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We can clearly distinguish in Coyote's thread the new social paradigm that emerged in America\West and most of the world:

The absolute racial equality among all the groups with a historical presence in the territory comprised by the state.

During the first half of the last century black americans were subjected to "mild" forms of racial discrimination, such as political disenfranchisement, segregation of public spaces, transportation and schools. Mild when compared to the ones that are imposed on the palestinian people. Nothing even remotely similar to ethnic enclaves surrounded with barbed wire fences, machine gun nests and minefields. But the presence of the social paradigm of racial equality makes Coyote's mind perceive even minor forms of discrimination like separate schools as abhorrent, repulsive, dehumanizing. Even if the segregated schools had the same quality of education Coyote would still condemn them as an expression of ethnic supremacism because of the act of segregating itself.

When you read the thread created by Coyote on the little black girl and "her" fight against segregation you would expect similar threads on the rights of the palestinian people because you'd think the paradigm of racial equality created by the armed conflict of the last century is applied equally and universally around the world. Much to your shock and surprise you find Coyote (aka, the average western citizen) supporting the moral depravation of a jewish supremacist state inflicting a level of dehumanization that makes the segregation endured by american blacks pale in comparison:

Originally posted by Coyote
No.

I'd dismantle all settlements on occupied territories.

Then, I'd defend the legally and historically defined borders of my nation with lethal force.

Would you build a wall Page 2 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Your first reaction is to refuse to believe the thread about Ruby and the post supporting the murder of palestinians in their own homeland were written by the same person. After confirming the authenticity of the posts you start wondering if a time period of 5, 10 years separate both messages... but no, they are sometimes posted on the same day.

The same person who express indignation with racial segregation in America expresses her support for this:





You'd think someone who supports a jewish supremacist state in Palestine would not only support social segregation in America but even extra judicial killings that marked the history of the country:



To make sense of the absurd, contradictory way Coyote (aka, the average westerner) reasons you have to take into account that the paradigm of racial equality between ethnic groups with a historical presence in the country is the rule applied to almost all cases:

1 - Whites, blacks, hispanics in America

1 - Maoris, whites and asians in New Zealand

etc, etc, etc...

The dehumanising paradigm through which the palestinian people is viewed is the exception to the rule. Equality emcompasses virtually all cases but palestinians.

The way these paradigms compel people to think is so predictable that I can even anticipate Coyote's reply to the entire Board.

She's gonna say something along these lines:

"Wait a moment, José... You're comparing apples to oranges... Black americans were citizens of the country, palestinians in the OT are not israeli citizens."

She can't help but thinking about Palestinians in the OT as if they were as foreign to the region as Chinese or Russians, as if they were a people with no historical presence in Western Palestine and consequently no right to reside there.

The ways of thinking created by the last major war in Europe prevents her from perceiving this group of human beings:


as individuals entitled to same set of rights as this little girl:



As Coyote herself once told me, the right of refugees to live in Western Palestine "doesn't exist anymore", it's all "smoke and mirrors".

Having been born or having her formative years after WWII, Coyote (aka, the average westerner) is the result of these two complementary paradigms: the super humanization of the jewish people and the dehumanizing one applied to palestinians as well as equality among the rest.

It's ironic that the paradigms prevent her from realizing she perceives the Palestinian people through the same dehumanizing paradigm the white supremacists she lambasts...



She even goes further advocating the physical elimination of palestinians who fight against the exile in the ethnic enclaves:

Only when you take into consideration the combined effect of these 3 post-WWII social paradigms Coyote's schizophrenic political thought (racial equality in America and jewish supremacism in Palestine) becomes perfectly understandable.

As Montelatici would say, it's Orwellian (Orwellian in the sense of someone "learning to embrace inconsistent concepts without dissent").

Orwellian but perfectly comprehensible.
 
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Disir

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Oh, I see, we are going to play to the Mods in an effort to lay a specific line of bullshit out. Got it.
 

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Some of you may remember the thread I created last year about the dehumanization of the palestinian people in which I explained how WWII represented a huge paradigm shift in the way western states defined themselves and the human value assigned to the world Jewry and the native inhabitants of Palestine.

Dehumanization Palestinians most powerful enemy US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

This thread will provide a series of practical examples that will show how all these paradigms are not merely arcane, abstract concepts with little to no connection with the "real world".

They are real, concrete ideas that model the way of thinking of most countries around the world, both governments and citizens.

This is the first thread of a trilogy that will prove the big impact of these paradigms.

I will "extract" these paradigms from the threads and posts of an average western citizen, our fellow member Coyote first, and later, from the posts of JakeStarkey, Sallow, High Gravity, Sealybobo, etc...

So let's briefly recap the paradigms WWII created:

1 - Total racial equality among all racial groups of a given country.

2 - The super humanization of the jewish people.

3 - The dehumanization of the palestinian people.

4 - The redefinition of western countries as multi-racial nations without a predominant ethnic identity
This thread ain't worth a pair o' dimes.
 
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José

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Originally posted by Disir
Oh, I see, we are going to play to the Mods in an effort to lay a specific line of bullshit out. Got it.
I used Coyote's thread to exemplify the mindset of hundreds of millions of people around the world.

I could have used JakeStarkey, rightwinger, High_Gravity or any other poster who displays this same kind of double standards.

Don't take it personally. : )
 
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aris2chat

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Except there is no dehumanization of the Palestinian people, but do go on. In fact, don't you find it rather odd that there is no mention on these boards of the factories that Palestinians and Israelis work at. Can you tell me why that is?
People also forget that palestinians are not Israeli, they don't want to be. Jobs and voting cannot be equal to both in Israel or Israeli held land for obvious reasons. Health care and education is open to both but most palestinians prefer non-Israeli teachers. Housing in Israel is obviously not open to palestinians but arab Israelis live in the same neighborhoods and buildings with the rest of Israelis.

Comparing germans and french with regard to equality in german might help. Palestinians are foreigners in Israel, like french are foreigners in german. French don't vote in german, don't have the right to work without permits, etc. French are not actively at war with german, at this time. In France, the french tend to turn their noses up at foreigners, especially when they try to speak french.

Under jordan and especially egypt the lot of palestinians was far worse than after Israel controlled WB and G. The lot of many arabs in other nations in the region are worse that the palestinians.
Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, syria, jordan and iraq is worse. Yet, palestinians whine and rant and rave about everything. Even the UN and other donors of the palestinians, especially in gaza have closed their checkbooks and withheld even money promised already. UN does not have money to feed the refugees anymore. They are dealing with those far more in need from Syria right now. Even the PA does not want to send money or invest in G. Syria has killed more palestinians that Israel in the last 60+ yrs. Even in the last few tens of thousands have been killed by assad forces or starved to death in syrian camps.
Egypt has only had the rafah open a few times this last year for humanitarian exit of palestinians from egypt, and they have shot fishing boats that stray too close to their waters. They have declared hamas a terrorist organization and will not negotiate with them anymore.

Is it possible that the reason palestinians are dissatisfied has more to do with their attitude and actions that with Israel?

You really think Israel is discriminating? What about the rest of the arab world? Perhaps there is something the palestinians can do beside incite hate and violence against Israel to change their lot in the region. Less than a half of the palestinians live in the G/WB/Israeli area, half maybe of those are in G. Most in the WB are doing far better than those in G. So how many are really "suffering" under Israeli's yoke?
 

P F Tinmore

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Except there is no dehumanization of the Palestinian people, but do go on. In fact, don't you find it rather odd that there is no mention on these boards of the factories that Palestinians and Israelis work at. Can you tell me why that is?
People also forget that palestinians are not Israeli, they don't want to be. Jobs and voting cannot be equal to both in Israel or Israeli held land for obvious reasons. Health care and education is open to both but most palestinians prefer non-Israeli teachers. Housing in Israel is obviously not open to palestinians but arab Israelis live in the same neighborhoods and buildings with the rest of Israelis.

Comparing germans and french with regard to equality in german might help. Palestinians are foreigners in Israel, like french are foreigners in german. French don't vote in german, don't have the right to work without permits, etc. French are not actively at war with german, at this time. In France, the french tend to turn their noses up at foreigners, especially when they try to speak french.

Under jordan and especially egypt the lot of palestinians was far worse than after Israel controlled WB and G. The lot of many arabs in other nations in the region are worse that the palestinians.
Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, syria, jordan and iraq is worse. Yet, palestinians whine and rant and rave about everything. Even the UN and other donors of the palestinians, especially in gaza have closed their checkbooks and withheld even money promised already. UN does not have money to feed the refugees anymore. They are dealing with those far more in need from Syria right now. Even the PA does not want to send money or invest in G. Syria has killed more palestinians that Israel in the last 60+ yrs. Even in the last few tens of thousands have been killed by assad forces or starved to death in syrian camps.
Egypt has only had the rafah open a few times this last year for humanitarian exit of palestinians from egypt, and they have shot fishing boats that stray too close to their waters. They have declared hamas a terrorist organization and will not negotiate with them anymore.

Is it possible that the reason palestinians are dissatisfied has more to do with their attitude and actions that with Israel?

You really think Israel is discriminating? What about the rest of the arab world? Perhaps there is something the palestinians can do beside incite hate and violence against Israel to change their lot in the region. Less than a half of the palestinians live in the G/WB/Israeli area, half maybe of those are in G. Most in the WB are doing far better than those in G. So how many are really "suffering" under Israeli's yoke?
Palestinians are foreigners in Israel,​

Someone born in Haifa is a foreigner?
 

Disir

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Except there is no dehumanization of the Palestinian people, but do go on. In fact, don't you find it rather odd that there is no mention on these boards of the factories that Palestinians and Israelis work at. Can you tell me why that is?
People also forget that palestinians are not Israeli, they don't want to be. Jobs and voting cannot be equal to both in Israel or Israeli held land for obvious reasons. Health care and education is open to both but most palestinians prefer non-Israeli teachers. Housing in Israel is obviously not open to palestinians but arab Israelis live in the same neighborhoods and buildings with the rest of Israelis.

Comparing germans and french with regard to equality in german might help. Palestinians are foreigners in Israel, like french are foreigners in german. French don't vote in german, don't have the right to work without permits, etc. French are not actively at war with german, at this time. In France, the french tend to turn their noses up at foreigners, especially when they try to speak french.

Under jordan and especially egypt the lot of palestinians was far worse than after Israel controlled WB and G. The lot of many arabs in other nations in the region are worse that the palestinians.
Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, syria, jordan and iraq is worse. Yet, palestinians whine and rant and rave about everything. Even the UN and other donors of the palestinians, especially in gaza have closed their checkbooks and withheld even money promised already. UN does not have money to feed the refugees anymore. They are dealing with those far more in need from Syria right now. Even the PA does not want to send money or invest in G. Syria has killed more palestinians that Israel in the last 60+ yrs. Even in the last few tens of thousands have been killed by assad forces or starved to death in syrian camps.
Egypt has only had the rafah open a few times this last year for humanitarian exit of palestinians from egypt, and they have shot fishing boats that stray too close to their waters. They have declared hamas a terrorist organization and will not negotiate with them anymore.

Is it possible that the reason palestinians are dissatisfied has more to do with their attitude and actions that with Israel?

You really think Israel is discriminating? What about the rest of the arab world? Perhaps there is something the palestinians can do beside incite hate and violence against Israel to change their lot in the region. Less than a half of the palestinians live in the G/WB/Israeli area, half maybe of those are in G. Most in the WB are doing far better than those in G. So how many are really "suffering" under Israeli's yoke?
Wrong girl. Read my statement again.

Deputy Head of the Samaria Regional Council Yossi Dagan, who participated in the TV feature, explained:

“There are 10 large industrial centers in Judea and Samaria, in which some 15,000 Palestinians work side by side with Israeli employees. At Barkan alone 3,000 Palestinians are employed together with 3,000 Israeli employees. They work together, earning the same wages, enjoying the same social benefits, vacation days and pension as prescribed by Israeli law. They go on trips together. Coexistence between the two peoples happens here, and all are awarded with a good and respectable livelihood.”
Arab Media Praises Israel s Treatment of Palestinian Workers United with Israel

Palestinian workers back Scarlett Johansson s opposition to SodaStream boycott video - CSMonitor.com

Mayor Nir Barkat proudly trumpets the investments he has made over the past five years in the Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem: about $141 million for roads and infrastructure, $113 million to build 500 classrooms, more than $1 million for a single soccer field in Beit Safafa.


But as part of a broader “anti-normalization” campaign, the Palestinian leadership has for decades warned residents against casting ballots. So a vast majority do not vote, despite the possibility that their large numbers could win a solid blocking minority on the 31-member City Council, if not a winning coalition with sympathetic Israelis.

“The whole thing is not really rational,” said Sari Nusseibeh, president of Al Quds University, whose family has 1,300-year roots in Jerusalem. “It’s not by reason that people are guided; it’s by sentiments and feelings and fears and histories.”

Mr. Nusseibeh once advocated Palestinian voting, backing an Arab newspaper publisher who ran for mayor in 1987 but withdrew after his cars were burned and his home vandalized. Yet Mr. Nusseibeh himself has never voted here, either. And he said that the current Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, with the fate of Jerusalem among the contentious questions on the agenda, make people even more wary that voting could be seen as legitimizing Israel’s control of the city.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/22/w...-politically-powerless-in-jerusalem.html?_r=0

Arab residents express reactions to voting that range from disdain and apathy to surprise that there are elections altogether. Many of them feel a deep attachment to their Palestinian identity, reject Israeli politicians’ being active in their areas or are jaded by a system that has never worked for them and feel never will. They also lack adequate knowledge about their own right to vote.

Many Arabs are considered permanent residents of Jerusalem and live in parts of the city that were conquered in 1967 and annexed in 1980. The Local Authorities Elections Law allows permanent residents to vote in city council elections but not Knesset elections.

Around 160,000 east Jerusalemites will be eligible to vote this month. To be able to vote, people had to have registered as living in the city before September 12 with the Interior Ministry.

But the Arab vote is so low that candidates admit to not campaigning among them, even though the community makes up a potential voter base of 38% of Jerusalem’s Arab residents.

Omri Sheinfeld, a spokesman for the grassroots Yerushalmim party, tells In Jerusalem in an email, “The Arab citizens of Jerusalem, of whom very few vote, are not one of our focus groups.” He adds that the party also doesn’t focus on the haredim, “since they vote as a bloc.”

But Sheinfeld says that the platforms of the party – such as improving education and fighting for gender equality – appeal to Jews and Arabs alike, but they simply don’t have the resources necessary to campaign to a group that has appeared apathetic about voting. It is the responsibility of the city to encourage voting and make it accessible to all, Sheinfeld writes, but in the end, “each person and group decides for themselves” whether or not to vote.

VOTER TURNOUT among this group has always been low, and this has come to be the accepted norm. In a 2003 interview, Barkat candidly divulged that his advisers told him there was no electoral reason to include the Arab neighborhoods in his platform.

But according to the mayor’s office, under Barkat the Jerusalem municipality has invested greatly in the Arab sector in planning and construction, transportation, education and community services. In 2011, the municipality invested NIS 3 million to help facilitate the rezoning of neighborhoods, help residents with proof of ownership issues and “began the diligent process of naming and numbering unnamed streets in eastern Jerusalem.”
http://www.jpost.com/In-Jerusalem/F...AL/RMXndss4Gewwd1S+zbuyGRXsnFYNwTbP6LAMyf2vrm
 

aris2chat

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Except there is no dehumanization of the Palestinian people, but do go on. In fact, don't you find it rather odd that there is no mention on these boards of the factories that Palestinians and Israelis work at. Can you tell me why that is?
People also forget that palestinians are not Israeli, they don't want to be. Jobs and voting cannot be equal to both in Israel or Israeli held land for obvious reasons. Health care and education is open to both but most palestinians prefer non-Israeli teachers. Housing in Israel is obviously not open to palestinians but arab Israelis live in the same neighborhoods and buildings with the rest of Israelis.

Comparing germans and french with regard to equality in german might help. Palestinians are foreigners in Israel, like french are foreigners in german. French don't vote in german, don't have the right to work without permits, etc. French are not actively at war with german, at this time. In France, the french tend to turn their noses up at foreigners, especially when they try to speak french.

Under jordan and especially egypt the lot of palestinians was far worse than after Israel controlled WB and G. The lot of many arabs in other nations in the region are worse that the palestinians.
Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, syria, jordan and iraq is worse. Yet, palestinians whine and rant and rave about everything. Even the UN and other donors of the palestinians, especially in gaza have closed their checkbooks and withheld even money promised already. UN does not have money to feed the refugees anymore. They are dealing with those far more in need from Syria right now. Even the PA does not want to send money or invest in G. Syria has killed more palestinians that Israel in the last 60+ yrs. Even in the last few tens of thousands have been killed by assad forces or starved to death in syrian camps.
Egypt has only had the rafah open a few times this last year for humanitarian exit of palestinians from egypt, and they have shot fishing boats that stray too close to their waters. They have declared hamas a terrorist organization and will not negotiate with them anymore.

Is it possible that the reason palestinians are dissatisfied has more to do with their attitude and actions that with Israel?

You really think Israel is discriminating? What about the rest of the arab world? Perhaps there is something the palestinians can do beside incite hate and violence against Israel to change their lot in the region. Less than a half of the palestinians live in the G/WB/Israeli area, half maybe of those are in G. Most in the WB are doing far better than those in G. So how many are really "suffering" under Israeli's yoke?
Wrong girl. Read my statement again.

Deputy Head of the Samaria Regional Council Yossi Dagan, who participated in the TV feature, explained:

“There are 10 large industrial centers in Judea and Samaria, in which some 15,000 Palestinians work side by side with Israeli employees. At Barkan alone 3,000 Palestinians are employed together with 3,000 Israeli employees. They work together, earning the same wages, enjoying the same social benefits, vacation days and pension as prescribed by Israeli law. They go on trips together. Coexistence between the two peoples happens here, and all are awarded with a good and respectable livelihood.”
Arab Media Praises Israel s Treatment of Palestinian Workers United with Israel

Palestinian workers back Scarlett Johansson s opposition to SodaStream boycott video - CSMonitor.com

Mayor Nir Barkat proudly trumpets the investments he has made over the past five years in the Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem: about $141 million for roads and infrastructure, $113 million to build 500 classrooms, more than $1 million for a single soccer field in Beit Safafa.


But as part of a broader “anti-normalization” campaign, the Palestinian leadership has for decades warned residents against casting ballots. So a vast majority do not vote, despite the possibility that their large numbers could win a solid blocking minority on the 31-member City Council, if not a winning coalition with sympathetic Israelis.

“The whole thing is not really rational,” said Sari Nusseibeh, president of Al Quds University, whose family has 1,300-year roots in Jerusalem. “It’s not by reason that people are guided; it’s by sentiments and feelings and fears and histories.”

Mr. Nusseibeh once advocated Palestinian voting, backing an Arab newspaper publisher who ran for mayor in 1987 but withdrew after his cars were burned and his home vandalized. Yet Mr. Nusseibeh himself has never voted here, either. And he said that the current Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, with the fate of Jerusalem among the contentious questions on the agenda, make people even more wary that voting could be seen as legitimizing Israel’s control of the city.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/22/w...-politically-powerless-in-jerusalem.html?_r=0

Arab residents express reactions to voting that range from disdain and apathy to surprise that there are elections altogether. Many of them feel a deep attachment to their Palestinian identity, reject Israeli politicians’ being active in their areas or are jaded by a system that has never worked for them and feel never will. They also lack adequate knowledge about their own right to vote.

Many Arabs are considered permanent residents of Jerusalem and live in parts of the city that were conquered in 1967 and annexed in 1980. The Local Authorities Elections Law allows permanent residents to vote in city council elections but not Knesset elections.

Around 160,000 east Jerusalemites will be eligible to vote this month. To be able to vote, people had to have registered as living in the city before September 12 with the Interior Ministry.

But the Arab vote is so low that candidates admit to not campaigning among them, even though the community makes up a potential voter base of 38% of Jerusalem’s Arab residents.

Omri Sheinfeld, a spokesman for the grassroots Yerushalmim party, tells In Jerusalem in an email, “The Arab citizens of Jerusalem, of whom very few vote, are not one of our focus groups.” He adds that the party also doesn’t focus on the haredim, “since they vote as a bloc.”

But Sheinfeld says that the platforms of the party – such as improving education and fighting for gender equality – appeal to Jews and Arabs alike, but they simply don’t have the resources necessary to campaign to a group that has appeared apathetic about voting. It is the responsibility of the city to encourage voting and make it accessible to all, Sheinfeld writes, but in the end, “each person and group decides for themselves” whether or not to vote.

VOTER TURNOUT among this group has always been low, and this has come to be the accepted norm. In a 2003 interview, Barkat candidly divulged that his advisers told him there was no electoral reason to include the Arab neighborhoods in his platform.

But according to the mayor’s office, under Barkat the Jerusalem municipality has invested greatly in the Arab sector in planning and construction, transportation, education and community services. In 2011, the municipality invested NIS 3 million to help facilitate the rezoning of neighborhoods, help residents with proof of ownership issues and “began the diligent process of naming and numbering unnamed streets in eastern Jerusalem.”
http://www.jpost.com/In-Jerusalem/Features/Jerusalems-missing-voters-327800?prmusr=Cx/Lnrb2NjkYsPxidLEAL/RMXndss4Gewwd1S+zbuyGRXsnFYNwTbP6LAMyf2vrm
Not all palestinians can enter Israel or Israeli areas of the WB to seek out jobs. Opportunities are there but there are many reason a person might not be able to find work with Israelis or in Israel.

There is still a security problem that makes the issue of jobs seem some what unequal. Israel also pays better so the same job in the WB or at an Israeli company is also used as part of the attacks against Israel. Palestinians are payed the same but there is a disparity between the income in Israel and the income in the WB.
It is more perception and propaganda than fact but it is an excuse to incite hate.
 

Disir

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Except there is no dehumanization of the Palestinian people, but do go on. In fact, don't you find it rather odd that there is no mention on these boards of the factories that Palestinians and Israelis work at. Can you tell me why that is?
People also forget that palestinians are not Israeli, they don't want to be. Jobs and voting cannot be equal to both in Israel or Israeli held land for obvious reasons. Health care and education is open to both but most palestinians prefer non-Israeli teachers. Housing in Israel is obviously not open to palestinians but arab Israelis live in the same neighborhoods and buildings with the rest of Israelis.

Comparing germans and french with regard to equality in german might help. Palestinians are foreigners in Israel, like french are foreigners in german. French don't vote in german, don't have the right to work without permits, etc. French are not actively at war with german, at this time. In France, the french tend to turn their noses up at foreigners, especially when they try to speak french.

Under jordan and especially egypt the lot of palestinians was far worse than after Israel controlled WB and G. The lot of many arabs in other nations in the region are worse that the palestinians.
Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, syria, jordan and iraq is worse. Yet, palestinians whine and rant and rave about everything. Even the UN and other donors of the palestinians, especially in gaza have closed their checkbooks and withheld even money promised already. UN does not have money to feed the refugees anymore. They are dealing with those far more in need from Syria right now. Even the PA does not want to send money or invest in G. Syria has killed more palestinians that Israel in the last 60+ yrs. Even in the last few tens of thousands have been killed by assad forces or starved to death in syrian camps.
Egypt has only had the rafah open a few times this last year for humanitarian exit of palestinians from egypt, and they have shot fishing boats that stray too close to their waters. They have declared hamas a terrorist organization and will not negotiate with them anymore.

Is it possible that the reason palestinians are dissatisfied has more to do with their attitude and actions that with Israel?

You really think Israel is discriminating? What about the rest of the arab world? Perhaps there is something the palestinians can do beside incite hate and violence against Israel to change their lot in the region. Less than a half of the palestinians live in the G/WB/Israeli area, half maybe of those are in G. Most in the WB are doing far better than those in G. So how many are really "suffering" under Israeli's yoke?
Wrong girl. Read my statement again.

Deputy Head of the Samaria Regional Council Yossi Dagan, who participated in the TV feature, explained:

“There are 10 large industrial centers in Judea and Samaria, in which some 15,000 Palestinians work side by side with Israeli employees. At Barkan alone 3,000 Palestinians are employed together with 3,000 Israeli employees. They work together, earning the same wages, enjoying the same social benefits, vacation days and pension as prescribed by Israeli law. They go on trips together. Coexistence between the two peoples happens here, and all are awarded with a good and respectable livelihood.”
Arab Media Praises Israel s Treatment of Palestinian Workers United with Israel

Palestinian workers back Scarlett Johansson s opposition to SodaStream boycott video - CSMonitor.com

Mayor Nir Barkat proudly trumpets the investments he has made over the past five years in the Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem: about $141 million for roads and infrastructure, $113 million to build 500 classrooms, more than $1 million for a single soccer field in Beit Safafa.


But as part of a broader “anti-normalization” campaign, the Palestinian leadership has for decades warned residents against casting ballots. So a vast majority do not vote, despite the possibility that their large numbers could win a solid blocking minority on the 31-member City Council, if not a winning coalition with sympathetic Israelis.

“The whole thing is not really rational,” said Sari Nusseibeh, president of Al Quds University, whose family has 1,300-year roots in Jerusalem. “It’s not by reason that people are guided; it’s by sentiments and feelings and fears and histories.”

Mr. Nusseibeh once advocated Palestinian voting, backing an Arab newspaper publisher who ran for mayor in 1987 but withdrew after his cars were burned and his home vandalized. Yet Mr. Nusseibeh himself has never voted here, either. And he said that the current Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, with the fate of Jerusalem among the contentious questions on the agenda, make people even more wary that voting could be seen as legitimizing Israel’s control of the city.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/22/w...-politically-powerless-in-jerusalem.html?_r=0

Arab residents express reactions to voting that range from disdain and apathy to surprise that there are elections altogether. Many of them feel a deep attachment to their Palestinian identity, reject Israeli politicians’ being active in their areas or are jaded by a system that has never worked for them and feel never will. They also lack adequate knowledge about their own right to vote.

Many Arabs are considered permanent residents of Jerusalem and live in parts of the city that were conquered in 1967 and annexed in 1980. The Local Authorities Elections Law allows permanent residents to vote in city council elections but not Knesset elections.

Around 160,000 east Jerusalemites will be eligible to vote this month. To be able to vote, people had to have registered as living in the city before September 12 with the Interior Ministry.

But the Arab vote is so low that candidates admit to not campaigning among them, even though the community makes up a potential voter base of 38% of Jerusalem’s Arab residents.

Omri Sheinfeld, a spokesman for the grassroots Yerushalmim party, tells In Jerusalem in an email, “The Arab citizens of Jerusalem, of whom very few vote, are not one of our focus groups.” He adds that the party also doesn’t focus on the haredim, “since they vote as a bloc.”

But Sheinfeld says that the platforms of the party – such as improving education and fighting for gender equality – appeal to Jews and Arabs alike, but they simply don’t have the resources necessary to campaign to a group that has appeared apathetic about voting. It is the responsibility of the city to encourage voting and make it accessible to all, Sheinfeld writes, but in the end, “each person and group decides for themselves” whether or not to vote.

VOTER TURNOUT among this group has always been low, and this has come to be the accepted norm. In a 2003 interview, Barkat candidly divulged that his advisers told him there was no electoral reason to include the Arab neighborhoods in his platform.

But according to the mayor’s office, under Barkat the Jerusalem municipality has invested greatly in the Arab sector in planning and construction, transportation, education and community services. In 2011, the municipality invested NIS 3 million to help facilitate the rezoning of neighborhoods, help residents with proof of ownership issues and “began the diligent process of naming and numbering unnamed streets in eastern Jerusalem.”
http://www.jpost.com/In-Jerusalem/Features/Jerusalems-missing-voters-327800?prmusr=Cx/Lnrb2NjkYsPxidLEAL/RMXndss4Gewwd1S+zbuyGRXsnFYNwTbP6LAMyf2vrm
Not all palestinians can enter Israel or Israeli areas of the WB to seek out jobs. Opportunities are there but there are many reason a person might not be able to find work with Israelis or in Israel.

There is still a security problem that makes the issue of jobs seem some what unequal. Israel also pays better so the same job in the WB or at an Israeli company is also used as part of the attacks against Israel. Palestinians are payed the same but there is a disparity between the income in Israel and the income in the WB.
It is more perception and propaganda than fact but it is an excuse to incite hate.
By law the Israelis have to pay the same wages and benefits. The difference is that the Palestinians that work in the Israeli factories are willing to stand in line and know that where they are going everyone is equal and the NGOs hate that.
 

Phoenall

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Some of you may remember the thread I created last year about the dehumanization of the palestinian people in which I explained how WWII represented a huge paradigm shift in the way western states defined themselves and the human value assigned to the world Jewry and the native inhabitants of Palestine.

Dehumanization Palestinians most powerful enemy US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

This thread will provide a series of practical examples that will show how all these paradigms are not merely arcane, abstract concepts with little to no connection with the "real world".

They are real, concrete ideas that model the way of thinking of most countries around the world, both governments and citizens.

This is the first thread of a trilogy that will prove the big impact of these paradigms.

I will "extract" these paradigms from the threads and posts of an average western citizen, our fellow member Coyote first, and later, from the posts of JakeStarkey, Sallow, High Gravity, Sealybobo, etc...

So let's briefly recap the paradigms WWII created:

1 - Total racial equality among all racial groups of a given country.

2 - The super humanization of the jewish people.

3 - The dehumanization of the palestinian people.

4 - The redefinition of western countries as multi-racial nations without a predominant ethnic identity




Only one problem WW2 had nothing to do with the resurrection of the JEWISH NATIONAL HOME, that was brought about by promises made before and during WW1. So you are 35 years adrift in your ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA
 

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Happy Birthday Ruby Bridges

A few days late....

Such a tiny girl, surrounded by such tall and serious men, doing something incredibly brave.



Every morning a group of forty or more women, known as the “cheerleaders”, shouted obscene, racist threats at Ruby as she entered Frantz Elementary. Ruby received instruction in isolation from her teacher, Mrs. Barbara Henry. Even to use the restroom, she had to be escorted by the marshals, and Ruby ate lunch alone in the classroom every day.




Isnt this how the Palestinians treat all the non muslims that dare to exist in Palestine ?
 

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We can clearly distinguish in Coyote's thread the new social paradigm that emerged in America\West and most of the world:

The absolute racial equality among all the groups with a historical presence in the territory comprised by the state.

During the first half of the last century black americans were subjected to "mild" forms of racial discrimination, such as political disenfranchisement, segregation of public spaces, transportation and schools. Mild when compared to the ones that are imposed on the palestinian people. Nothing even remotely similar to ethnic enclaves surrounded with barbed wire fences, machine gun nests and minefields. But the presence of the social paradigm of racial equality makes Coyote's mind perceive even minor forms of discrimination like separate schools as abhorrent, repulsive, dehumanizing. Even if the segregated schools had the same quality of education Coyote would still condemn them as an expression of ethnic supremacism because of the act of segregating itself.

When you read the thread created by Coyote on the little black girl and "her" fight against segregation you would expect similar threads on the rights of the palestinian people because you'd think the paradigm of racial equality created by the armed conflict of the last century is applied equally and universally around the world. Much to your shock and surprise you find Coyote (aka, the average western citizen) supporting the moral depravation of a jewish supremacist state inflicting a level of dehumanization that makes the segregation endured by american blacks pale in comparison:

Originally posted by Coyote
No.

I'd dismantle all settlements on occupied territories.

Then, I'd defend the legally and historically defined borders of my nation with lethal force.

Would you build a wall Page 2 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Your first reaction is to refuse to believe the thread about Ruby and the post supporting the murder of palestinians in their own homeland were written by the same person. After confirming the authenticity of the posts you start wondering if a time period of 5, 10 years separate both messages... but no, they are sometimes posted on the same day.

The same person who express indignation with racial segregation in America expresses her support for this:





You'd think someone who supports a jewish supremacist state in Palestine would not only support social segregation in America but even extra judicial killings that marked the history of the country:



To make sense of the absurd, contradictory way Coyote (aka, the average westerner) reasons you have to take into account that the paradigm of racial equality between ethnic groups with a historical presence in the country is the rule applied to almost all cases:

1 - Whites, blacks, hispanics in America

1 - Maoris, whites and asians in New Zealand

etc, etc, etc...

The dehumanising paradigm through which the palestinian people is viewed is the exception to the rule. Equality emcompasses virtually all cases but palestinians.

The way these paradigms compel people to think is so predictable that I can even anticipate Coyote's reply to the entire Board.

She's gonna say something along these lines:

"Wait a moment, José... You're comparing apples to oranges... Black americans were citizens of the country, palestinians in the OT are not israeli citizens."

She can't help but thinking about Palestinians in the OT as if they were as foreign to the region as Chinese or Russians, as if they were a people with no historical presence in Western Palestine and consequently no right to reside there.

The ways of thinking created by the last major war in Europe prevents her from perceiving this group of human beings:


as individuals entitled to same set of rights as this little girl:



As Coyote herself once told me, the right of refugees to live in Western Palestine "doesn't exist anymore", it's all "smoke and mirrors".

Having been born or having her formative years after WWII, Coyote (aka, the average westerner) is the result of these two complementary paradigms: the super humanization of the jewish people and the dehumanizing one applied to palestinians as well as equality among the rest.

It's ironic that the paradigms prevent her from realizing she perceives the Palestinian people through the same dehumanizing paradigm the white supremacists she lambasts...



She even goes further advocating the physical elimination of palestinians who fight against the exile in the ethnic enclaves:

Only when you take into consideration the combined effect of these 3 post-WWII social paradigms Coyote's schizophrenic political thought (racial equality in America and jewish supremacism in Palestine) becomes perfectly understandable.

As Montelatici would say, it's Orwellian (Orwellian in the sense of someone "learning to embrace inconsistent concepts without dissent").

Orwellian but perfectly comprehensible.




Is that why the UN had to invent a new rule for arab muslims to prove they were indigenous, otherwise 90% of them would be sent packing back to Syria and Iran.
 

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