The Tea Party Says Nothing Will Happen If We Default

[KissMy]

ARTICLE VI. TERMINATION FOR CAUSE AND OTHER REMEDIES

Section 6.1 General Events of Default.

In the event that either:
(a) any representation, warranty, certification, assurance or any other statement of fact contained in this Agreement or the Application of the Participating State including, but not limited to, the Assurances (Non-Construction) contained as part of the Application, or any representation or warranty set forth in any document, report, certificate, financial statement or instrument now or hereafter delivered to Treasury in connection with this Agreement, is found to be inaccurate, false, incomplete or misleading when
made, in any material respect;
or
(b) the Participating State materially fails to observe, comply with, meet or perform any term, covenant, agreement or other provision contained in this Agreement including, but not limited to, the Participating State’s failure to submit complete and timely quarterly reports or annual reports, or the Participating State ceases to use the Allocated Funds to undertake the activities authorized in Annex 1 attached hereto;

Treasury, in its sole discretion, may find the Participating State to be in default.

Section 6.2 Discretionary Remedies.

If Treasury finds the Participating State to be in default under Section 6.1 of this Agreement, Treasury may, in its sole discretion, take any one or more of the following actions, subject to Section 6.6 of this Agreement:

(a) withhold Disbursements pending the Participating State’s correction of the default;
or
(b) wholly or partly reduce, suspend, or terminate the commitment of Treasury to make Disbursements to the Participating State under this Agreement, whereupon the commitment of Treasury to make Disbursements to the Participating State under this Agreement will be reduced, suspended, or terminated, as the case may be.

Section 6.3 Specific Events of Default

In the event of a Treasury Inspector General audit finding of either:
(a) intentional or reckless misuse of Allocated Funds by the Participating State;
or
(b) the Participating State having intentionally made misstatements in any report issued to Treasury under the Act; Treasury shall find the Participating State to be in default.

Section 6.4 Mandatory Remedies.

If Treasury finds the Participating State to be in default under Section 6.3 of this Agreement, Treasury shall take the following actions:
(a) in the case of an event of default under Section 6.3(a), recoup any misused Allocated Funds that have been disbursed to the Participating State;
or
(b) in the case of an event of default under Section 6.3(b), terminate the commitment of Treasury to make Disbursements to the Participating State under this Agreement, and find the State ineligible to receive any additional funds under the Act, whereupon the commitment of Treasury to make Disbursements to the Participating State under this Agreement will be terminated and the State will be ineligible to receive any additional funds under the Act.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The government statistics on federal spending and tax revenue.

And you won't actually produce them because...

...you're lying? or you're trolling? Or both?

Here you go dumbass:

2008 Total Federal Spending, $2.98 Trillion
Government Spending in United States: Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts Tables History
Current year total Federal Revenues, $3.03 Trillion
Federal State Local Government Tax Revenue in United States for 2014 - Charts Tables

You were saying something about lying???

.

Thank you for trying.

Now let's stay mature while I make a couple points about your numbers.


1. Your number is not adjusted for inflation, which we have to do in order to compare different years.

The OMB, which gives the same 3 trillion estimate in current dollars, puts that estimate at 2.5 trillion when adjusted for inflation,

which is 200 billion lower than the 2008 spending number of 2.7 trillion, adjusted for inflation.

2. You give a 2014 number which of course has to be estimated. Estimations are based on assumptions,

and I guarantee you the assumptions in your number do not include cutting back government spending to 2008 levels.

Why would that matter? Because the government is the country's biggest employer, and if you cut back spending to 2008 levels you are going to lay off hundreds of thousands of Americans,

whether they are government employees or whether they are in the private sector doing work for or with the government.

You forgot about that part didn't you?

 

[Geaux4it]

The only ones that care about default are the leftist leeches on our bank accounts. They need to keep us working

-Geaux

 

[eflatminor]

And you won't actually produce them because...

...you're lying? or you're trolling? Or both?

Here you go dumbass:

2008 Total Federal Spending, $2.98 Trillion
Government Spending in United States: Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts Tables History
Current year total Federal Revenues, $3.03 Trillion
Federal State Local Government Tax Revenue in United States for 2014 - Charts Tables

You were saying something about lying???

.

Thank you for trying.

Now let's stay mature while I make a couple points about your numbers.


1. Your number is not adjusted for inflation, which we have to do in order to compare different years.

The OMB, which gives the same 3 trillion estimate in current dollars, puts that estimate at 2.5 trillion when adjusted for inflation,

which is 200 billion lower than the 2008 spending number of 2.7 trillion, adjusted for inflation.

Fine, let's go with only 200 billion of deficit spending this year. Deal?

Didn't think so.

2. You give a 2014 number which of course has to be estimated. Estimations are based on assumptions,

and I guarantee you the assumptions in your number do not include cutting back government spending to 2008 levels.

No shit Sherlock. They're government estimates. What's pathetic is that you think growing government is good the economy. My God, you would have been right at home with Stalin or any other other central planners that were just sure they knew what was best for everyone.

Why would that matter? Because the government is the country's biggest employer, and if you cut back spending to 2008 levels you are going to lay off hundreds of thousands of Americans,

whether they are government employees or whether they are in the private sector doing work for or with the government.

You forgot about that part didn't you?

Ah yes, all those "non essential" employees. By your logic, we should pay people to dig ditches then fill them back up. After all, it's employment.

Your the biggest collectivist nanny state suck up I've ever encountered. You have no understanding of the concept of free will, free markets or voluntary choice. It's really pathetic.

Bottom line, you look ridiculous. We lived just fine with FAR less spending than we are doling out today, but you and Pelosi are just sure the cupboard is bare. Fucking ludicrous.

 

[Trajan]

Do you have a link for this claim?

apparently he doesn't know what a default entails either...let it go, its just more idiocy.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Here you go dumbass:

2008 Total Federal Spending, $2.98 Trillion
Government Spending in United States: Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts Tables History
Current year total Federal Revenues, $3.03 Trillion
Federal State Local Government Tax Revenue in United States for 2014 - Charts Tables

You were saying something about lying???

.

Thank you for trying.

Now let's stay mature while I make a couple points about your numbers.


1. Your number is not adjusted for inflation, which we have to do in order to compare different years.

The OMB, which gives the same 3 trillion estimate in current dollars, puts that estimate at 2.5 trillion when adjusted for inflation,

which is 200 billion lower than the 2008 spending number of 2.7 trillion, adjusted for inflation.

Fine, let's go with only 200 billion of deficit spending this year. Deal?

Didn't think so.

Even if I gave you that number, which I won't, we can't have it, remember? Because you're freezing the debt ceiling.

You can't run ANY deficit once the debt ceiling is hit.

2. You give a 2014 number which of course has to be estimated. Estimations are based on assumptions,

and I guarantee you the assumptions in your number do not include cutting back government spending to 2008 levels.

No shit Sherlock. They're government estimates. What's pathetic is that you think growing government is good the economy. My God, you would have been right at home with Stalin or any other other central planners that were just sure they knew what was best for everyone.

I'm just pointig out what's wrong with your plan. You go back to 2008 spending levels and hundreds of thousands lose their jobs. They stop paying taxes, there goes your revenue estimate; they start drawing government UE benefits etc.; there goes your spending estimate.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Failure to pay 40% of the obligations of the US government when due meets the legal definition of defaulting.

I see. Thanks for clarifying that you have no knowledge about how our system works at the federal level.

Black’s law dictionary has this to say about “default”: The omission or failure to fulfill a duty, observe a promise, discharge an obligation, or perform an agreement [or observe a promise or discharge an obligation (e.g. to pay interest or principal on a debt when due ].

Government programs such as Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, which are examples of mandatory spending,

have to be funded, by law. Their funding is a legal obligation. To create a situation, such as freezing the debt ceiling, that prevents their funding,

is causing the government to default on those obligations well within the definitions you posted.

And all that can easily be paid for as well as our debt obligation with the revenue we bring in. So what is your point?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I guess eflatminor has embarked on an Indiana Jones style expedition...

...to try to find one ounce of evidence to support his ridiculous claims in this thread.

What is it with you people???

We bring in $250 billion in taxes every month, our interest payment is $20 billion. Tell me why we would ever default.

You and others are talking about only one aspect of default.

Question: Does the Treasury have the authority to pick and choose which bills it pays? If so, where does it get that authority?

I'm talking about defaulting on our debt. What the hell are you talking about?


Constitutional Scholar: Treasury Can Pick and Choose What Bills to Pay If We Crash Into Debt Ceiling

 

[Lonestar_logic]

What about all of the contractual obligations that the US government must abide by or be deemed to be in default by your own link's definition of the term? Where does your link say that contractual obligations are exempt? If your company had a contract with the government for services would the government be in default if you performed those services and the government failed to pay you?

What about it?

Tell me how much are our "contractual obligations"?

And please use a credible source.

It has been explained to you or rather would have if you had taken the time to read the link or even do your own research that matter. Our revenue, ( you do know what that is right ?) is over 2 trillion dollars a year, our debt service is around 420 billion dollars a year. So how can we ever default?

Unless you have a "credible source" that can definitely establish that the government is making payments without a legal obligation to make those payments the assumption must be that all payments are legal. If you want a "credible source" I suggest that you refer to the Treasury website itself.

I never mentioned the word "legal".

 

[Lonestar_logic]

And you won't actually produce them because...

...you're lying? or you're trolling? Or both?

Here you go dumbass:

2008 Total Federal Spending, $2.98 Trillion
Government Spending in United States: Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts Tables History
Current year total Federal Revenues, $3.03 Trillion
Federal State Local Government Tax Revenue in United States for 2014 - Charts Tables

You were saying something about lying???

.

Thank you for trying.

Now let's stay mature while I make a couple points about your numbers.


1. Your number is not adjusted for inflation, which we have to do in order to compare different years.

The OMB, which gives the same 3 trillion estimate in current dollars, puts that estimate at 2.5 trillion when adjusted for inflation,

which is 200 billion lower than the 2008 spending number of 2.7 trillion, adjusted for inflation.

2. You give a 2014 number which of course has to be estimated. Estimations are based on assumptions,

and I guarantee you the assumptions in your number do not include cutting back government spending to 2008 levels.

Why would that matter? Because the government is the country's biggest employer, and if you cut back spending to 2008 levels you are going to lay off hundreds of thousands of Americans,

whether they are government employees or whether they are in the private sector doing work for or with the government.

You forgot about that part didn't you?

You can only estimate 2014 dumbass!!

And his numbers come straight from your beloved government.

 

[Derideo_Te]

What about it?

Tell me how much are our "contractual obligations"?

And please use a credible source.

It has been explained to you or rather would have if you had taken the time to read the link or even do your own research that matter. Our revenue, ( you do know what that is right ?) is over 2 trillion dollars a year, our debt service is around 420 billion dollars a year. So how can we ever default?

Unless you have a "credible source" that can definitely establish that the government is making payments without a legal obligation to make those payments the assumption must be that all payments are legal. If you want a "credible source" I suggest that you refer to the Treasury website itself.

I never mentioned the word "legal".

A contract is a legal document. So is legislation that is passed and signed authorizing the spending of taxpayer funds. Failure to make payments when due on any of these legal obligations means that the government would automatically be in default. This would apply irrespective of the amount and/or the party involved that is due the payment.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Far right reactionary definitions are not acceptable, period.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I see. Thanks for clarifying that you have no knowledge about how our system works at the federal level.

Black’s law dictionary has this to say about “default”: The omission or failure to fulfill a duty, observe a promise, discharge an obligation, or perform an agreement [or observe a promise or discharge an obligation (e.g. to pay interest or principal on a debt when due ].

Government programs such as Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, which are examples of mandatory spending,

have to be funded, by law. Their funding is a legal obligation. To create a situation, such as freezing the debt ceiling, that prevents their funding,

is causing the government to default on those obligations well within the definitions you posted.

And all that can easily be paid for as well as our debt obligation with the revenue we bring in. So what is your point?

Mandatory spending is 70 to 80% of the budget.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Government programs such as Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, which are examples of mandatory spending,

have to be funded, by law. Their funding is a legal obligation. To create a situation, such as freezing the debt ceiling, that prevents their funding,

is causing the government to default on those obligations well within the definitions you posted.

And all that can easily be paid for as well as our debt obligation with the revenue we bring in. So what is your point?

Mandatory spending is 70 to 80% of the budget.

Source?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Unless you have a "credible source" that can definitely establish that the government is making payments without a legal obligation to make those payments the assumption must be that all payments are legal. If you want a "credible source" I suggest that you refer to the Treasury website itself.

I never mentioned the word "legal".

A contract is a legal document. So is legislation that is passed and signed authorizing the spending of taxpayer funds. Failure to make payments when due on any of these legal obligations means that the government would automatically be in default. This would apply irrespective of the amount and/or the party involved that is due the payment.

You still haven't explained how we can take in 2.5 trillion and not be able to pay our 420 billion dollar debt obligation.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I never mentioned the word "legal".

A contract is a legal document. So is legislation that is passed and signed authorizing the spending of taxpayer funds. Failure to make payments when due on any of these legal obligations means that the government would automatically be in default. This would apply irrespective of the amount and/or the party involved that is due the payment.

You still haven't explained how we can take in 2.5 trillion and not be able to pay our 420 billion dollar debt obligation.

We have about 3.2 trillion in legal obligations. If We the People fail to pay ALL of our obligations we go into default.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

A contract is a legal document. So is legislation that is passed and signed authorizing the spending of taxpayer funds. Failure to make payments when due on any of these legal obligations means that the government would automatically be in default. This would apply irrespective of the amount and/or the party involved that is due the payment.

You still haven't explained how we can take in 2.5 trillion and not be able to pay our 420 billion dollar debt obligation.

We have about 3.2 trillion in legal obligations. If We the People fail to pay ALL of our obligations we go into default.

Bullshit.

How about providing a source.

You libs are all the same. you throw out bullshit numbers without anything to support it.

 

[Sarah G]

Nobody ever accused these people of actually knowing what they are talking about..

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Nobody ever accused these people of actually knowing what they are talking about..

Wow... another idiot that believes liberal lies.

The US will not default stupid. But hey, don't let a little thing like facts stand in the way of your idiocy.

 

[Derideo_Te]

You still haven't explained how we can take in 2.5 trillion and not be able to pay our 420 billion dollar debt obligation.

We have about 3.2 trillion in legal obligations. If We the People fail to pay ALL of our obligations we go into default.

Bullshit.

How about providing a source.

You libs are all the same. you throw out bullshit numbers without anything to support it.

Current Issue: Monthly Treasury Statement: Publications & Guidance: Financial Management Service

You will all of the details in this PDF that is on the Treasury site above.

http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/mts0813.pdf