The Tariffs

[jwoodie]

I don't get it....why?

$USD=$1.46CAD

 

[jc456]

Indeed.... The only real explanation is that they have protection from DC to a certain extent.

we need the nominees in office

 

[Kruska]

Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact the most Asian countries do not have unions and higher labor costs. That's why for a number of decades up to and including today that it is cheaper to produce products that are no longer inferior to US stuff and export it to us. How else do you figure the demand for exported stuff over US stuff? It's cost, not quality.

Somehow you didn't grasp my initial post - which clearly shows that 8 European countries - amounting to the same population as the USA - have a 250% higher export volume then the USA. And these 8 face the same competitors and restrictions as the USA and also have far higher labor costs then the USA.

So again it is NOT a matter of Labor-costs nor restrictions that are imposed onto those 8 and the USA - it is simply and only, that the USA does not posses the industrial and manufacturer capability that would allow for US industrial products to be sought for.

Most of the US export goods are factually Oil&Gas and NOT industrial manufactured goods. And those "cars" that the US exports are in majority Japanese, Korean and German cars and not American brands.

https://oec.world/en/profile/country/usa

The top exports of United States are

Refined Petroleum ($138 B),
Crude Petroleum ($118 B),
Petroleum Gas ($116 B),
Cars ($57.5B), - whilst the USA imports cars and car part accessories for $250 B
Integrated Circuits ($49.8B) - whilst the USA imports Computers for $108 B, and broadcasting equipment for $ 116 B
Medical Instruments ($33.3B), - whilst the USA imports packaged medicament's for $91 B
Gas Turbines ($32.5B),
Planes, Helicopters, and/or Spacecraft ($27.6B),
Corn ($19.3B)

 

[Dragonlady]

And was victorious

Given that they’re only there to stop the drugs, you’re on your own with immigration, as it should be. It's up to YOU to stop undesireables from getting in, not Mexico, Canada or anyone else.

Incidentally ever since Canada beefed up our border protection, we’ve kept a LOT of fentanyl and cocaine OUT of Canada. And guns.

'Can't trust the numbers': Security concerns persist at Alberta-U.S. border as CBSA touts successes

One former Canada Border Services Agency officer suggests much more is flowing across the international boundary than is officially known.

calgaryherald.com

Sarnia border officers capturing more illegal drugs and guns

Border seizures of certain illegal drugs at the Sarnia, Ont. Blue Water Bridge are trending upward. Since 2019, the amount of cocaine seized at the crossing has more than tripled.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Independent thinker]

Fun Fact:

US Trade Exports have increased by 400% since 2000-2001. This seemingly exponential growth in our exports would seemingly suggest there would be no need for tariffs.

Trump is neglecting far more effective tools by which he could hammer Canada, China, Mexico, and the EU with. That increase over the past two and a half decades suggests tariffs aren't the best way to handle this. As someone has explained it to me, with far more knowledge on trade than I:

"The exponential revenue growth of our exports over that period of time outstrips the revenue we would gain by tariffs.

But now that we have implemented those tariffs, the US will see fewer imports, which will decrease US exports.

It would simply be better not to place tariffs on US exports at this point. The decrease in imports would likely trigger net job losses stateside."

In short, he said, "he should leave our imports/exports alone."

As for what more effective methods there are, I'll leave that up to you.

Ummmmmmmmmmm, we still have a very high trade deficit. Democrats plan has alway been to pay a living wage to US workers while importing all kinds of items from other countries using slave labor and then defending that policy and attacking Trump for it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Given that they’re only there to stop the drugs, you’re on your own with immigration, as it should be. It's up to YOU to stop undesireables from getting in, not Mexico, Canada or anyone else.

You miss the whole point of governance. Period, full stop.

It is the responsibility of every government to control the illegal and illicit behavior of their respective citizens.

You have ZERO clue how this works.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Incidentally ever since Canada beefed up our border protection, we’ve kept a LOT of fentanyl and cocaine OUT of Canada. And guns.

Because unlike them, we are attempting to control what goes on within our borders. But to hear you say it, we have to regulate the problems of other governments too.

Please, no more of the globalist garbage.

 

[Dragonlady]

You miss the whole point of governance. Period, full stop.

It is the responsibility of every government to control the behavior of their respective citizens.

You have ZERO clue how this works.

No it is not. Who told you that bullshit? Oh yeah - Trump!

The job of government is to provide a stable platform, infrastructure, healthcare system, education and protection of personal and private property rights, so that the population is free to achieve their full potential.

It is not the responsibility of government to "control" anyone. The government is controlled by the people - not the other way around.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Ummmmmmmmmmm, we still have a very high trade deficit.

It's $78 billion. Relative to our output of exports, that's relatively small.

 

[Independent thinker]

It's $78 billion. Relative to our output of exports, that's relatively small.

So, why not even or a $78 million surplus? Why is that we always have to accept the short end of the rope?

 

[TemplarKormac]

No it is not. Who told you that bullshit? Oh yeah - Trump!

The job of government is to provide a stable platform, infrastructure, healthcare system, education and protection of personal and private property rights, so that the population is free to achieve their full potential.

So, did you forget that governments have legal systems for a reason? To prevent criminal behavior? The job of a government is to provide a stable environment for its citizens to live in without restricting their basic freedoms. Mexico has its own immigration laws; we do, and Canada does. All basic acknowledgment that governments wish to regulate what goes on internally by controlling what comes in externally.

You're so clueless it's painful.

 

[TemplarKormac]

So, why not even or a $78 million surplus? Why is that we always have to accept the short end of the rope?

Because the revenue from our exports easily outstrips any negative consequence of a trade deficit.

 

[TemplarKormac]

It is not the responsibility of government to "control" anyone. The government is controlled by the people - not the other way around.

The very concept of "law" means governments do control what the people do.

You can stop trying now. You failed.

 

[jc456]

Given that they’re only there to stop the drugs, you’re on your own with immigration, as it should be. It's up to YOU to stop undesireables from getting in, not Mexico, Canada or anyone else.

Incidentally ever since Canada beefed up our border protection, we’ve kept a LOT of fentanyl and cocaine OUT of Canada. And guns.

'Can't trust the numbers': Security concerns persist at Alberta-U.S. border as CBSA touts successes

One former Canada Border Services Agency officer suggests much more is flowing across the international boundary than is officially known.

calgaryherald.com

Sarnia border officers capturing more illegal drugs and guns

Border seizures of certain illegal drugs at the Sarnia, Ont. Blue Water Bridge are trending upward. Since 2019, the amount of cocaine seized at the crossing has more than tripled.

www.ctvnews.ca

or not

 

[Dragonlady]

I want to think these tariffs are serving some greater purpose other than simple retaliation.

They’re absolutely retaliation. Doug Ford has said he will pull the plug.

 

[BackAgain]

I mean no offense, but I'm pretty sure a broad and general tariff on all imports would result in one hell of a bad depression. Tariffs raise prices, that is what they do. Big time inflation!

No offense taken. Actual economists have very different views on how (and whether) tariffs work. They also worry whether there are unintended consequences from utilizing tariffs.

To be clear, if they can’t agree then I (not an economist) am not a likely source of the better policy.

And IMHO your hypothetical is unrealistic.

It was designed as being highly unrealistic precisely to help us figure out the pros and cons. It’s a hypothetical. It isn’t a recommendation.

Maybe not every country, but many countries gov't will retaliate against us.

I would imagine some of the bigger more powerful nations would absolutely retaliate. But my question doesn’t get that far. Even absent retaliation, my hypo was designed to ask whether tariffs are a good policy, even in the least complicated situation.

 

[Dragonlady]

The very concept of "law" means governments do control what the people do.

You can stop trying now. You failed.

This is how governments in democratic countries function. You have ceased to be a democratic government.

 

[Dragonlady]

No offense taken. Actual economists have very different views on how (and whether) tariffs work. They also worry whether there are unintended consequences from utilizing tariffs.

To be clear, if they can’t agree then I (not an economist) am not a likely source of the better policy.

It was designed as being highly unrealistic precisely to help us figure out the pros and cons. It’s a hypothetical. It isn’t a recommendation.

I would imagine some of the bigger more powerful nations would absolutely retaliate. But my question doesn’t get that far. Even absent retaliation, my hypo was designed to ask whether tariffs are a good policy, even in the least complicated situation.

Actual economists across-the-board have agreed that tariffs are inflationary and a bad idea.

You only need to see what happened to US manufacturing during Trump’s last trade war to understand why. Over 200,000 manufacturing jobs were permanently lost and it’s taken years to replace them.

US manufacturing was already in a recession in, BEFORE the pandemic hit. More jobs were off shored under Trump than in the last 4 years of Obama’s administration.

https://www.reuters.com/article/economy/us-manufacturing-dives-to-10-year-low-as-trade-tensions-weigh-idUSKBN1WG4IT/

The only people saying that Tariffs are a wonderful idea are members of Trump’s inner circle. And they have to say it, or they lose their jobs

 

[BackAgain]

Actual economists across-the-board have agreed that tariffs are inflationary and a bad idea.

False. Some have. Others disagree.

 

[jc456]

I mean no offense, but I'm pretty sure a broad and general tariff on all imports would result in one hell of a bad depression. Tariffs raise prices, that is what they do. Big time inflation!

And IMHO your hypothetical is unrealistic. Maybe not every country, but many countries gov't will retaliate against us.

Ever hear of the Marshall plan?