The Tariffs

[Kruska]

Fun Fact:

US Trade Exports have increased by 400% since 2000-2001. This seemingly exponential growth in our exports would seemingly suggest there would be no need for tariffs.

Trump is neglecting far more effective tools by which he could hammer Canada, China, Mexico, and the EU with. That increase over the past two and a half decades suggests tariffs aren't the best way to handle this. As someone has explained it to me, with far more knowledge on trade than I:

"The exponential revenue growth of our exports over that period of time outstrips the revenue we would gain by tariffs.

But now that we have implemented those tariffs, the US will see fewer imports, which will decrease US exports.

It would simply be better not to place tariffs on US exports at this point. The decrease in imports would likely trigger net job losses stateside."

In short, he said, "he should leave our imports/exports alone."

As for what more effective methods there are, I'll leave that up to you.

U.S. Exports 1970-2025

Exports of goods and services represent the value of all goods and other market services provided to the rest of the world. They include the value of merchandise, freight, insurance, transport, travel, royalties, license fees, and other services, such as communication, construction, financial...

www.macrotrends.net

Those % figures don't give the "real" picture of a noncompetitive USA in the global market - since;

US exports in e.g. 2017 accounted for 2.4 Trillion US$ - a country with a population of 340 million people.!!
US exports in 2023 accounted for 3.0 Trillion

German exports in 2017 accounted for 1.6 Trillion US$ - a country with a population of 80 million people.
German exports in 2022 accounted for 2.1 Trillion

If you take the Germany, UK, France, Italy, Ireland, Belgium, Spain & Netherlands - 2022 - 7.5 Trillion - around 340 million people

As such 8 European countries combined - 340 million people, outpace the USA by 250%.
Keeping in mind that these 8 European countries face the same tariffs as the USA, by e.g. China, Mexico and Canada.

The USA's industrial problem is NOT a tariff issue, nor due to "unfair" practices - but a lack in US quality products.

 

[Delldude]

Trudeau on the phone with Trump nonstop.


Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

Canada doesn’t even allow U.S. Banks to open or do business there. What’s that all about? Many such things, but it’s also a DRUG WAR, and hundreds of thousands of people have died in the U.S. from drugs pouring through the Borders of Mexico and Canada. Just spoke to Justin Trudeau. Will be speaking to him again at 3:00 P.M.

Mexico caves:




Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

I just spoke with President Claudia Sheinbaum of Mexico. It was a very friendly conversation wherein she agreed to immediately supply 10,000 Mexican Soldiers on the Border separating Mexico and the United States. These soldiers will be specifically designated to stop the flow of fentanyl, and illegal migrants into our Country. We further agreed to immediately pause the anticipated tariffs for a one month period during which we will have negotiations headed by Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Secretary of Treasury Scott Bessent, and Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick, and high-level Representatives of Mexico. I look forward to participating in those negotiations, with President Sheinbaum, as we attempt to achieve a “deal” between our two Countries.

 

[task0778]

The USA's industrial problem is NOT a tariff issue, nor due to "unfair" practices - but a lack in US quality products.

I do not agree. The main problem is historical mis-management and the cost of labor are so high relative to the rest of the world. And by mis-management I mean in both the private and public sector (gov't), over a lengthy period of time. I think the rest of the world has caught up with the quality of US products and in some cases surpassed them.

 

[justoffal]

Fun Fact:

US Trade Exports have increased by 400% since 2000-2001. This seemingly exponential growth in our exports would seemingly suggest there would be no need for tariffs.

Trump is neglecting far more effective tools by which he could hammer Canada, China, Mexico, and the EU with. That increase over the past two and a half decades suggests tariffs aren't the best way to handle this. As someone has explained it to me, with far more knowledge on trade than I:

"The exponential revenue growth of our exports over that period of time outstrips the revenue we would gain by tariffs.

But now that we have implemented those tariffs, the US will see fewer imports, which will decrease US exports.

It would simply be better not to place tariffs on US exports at this point. The decrease in imports would likely trigger net job losses stateside."

In short, he said, "he should leave our imports/exports alone."

As for what more effective methods there are, I'll leave that up to you.

Well said and while I'm sure technically all of those points are true.... Nothing attracts business to the United States like tariffs on foreign made goods.
There are already dozens of Canadian companies considering moving across the border. Now I don't think this thing is going to drag out... But I do think you will see Canada get off of its ass and start watching who's coming and going instead of just laying back and singing kumbaya like they have been for the past eight to ten years.

I'm waiting for Polivere to get in.... I think he will work very well with Trump.

 

[Kruska]

I do not agree. The main problem is historical mis-management and the cost of labor are so high relative to the rest of the world. And by mis-management I mean in both the private and public sector (gov't), over a lengthy period of time. I think the rest of the world has caught up with the quality of US products and in some cases surpassed them.

These mismanagement issues lastly cause a lack in "wanted" - and quality related products.
The labor costs are not the issue - since the aforementioned European countries have far higher labor costs then the USA.

BMW didn't go to the USA due to better serving the US market (aka avoiding tariffs) - but simply due to lower labor-costs and "provided incentives". And All US-produced BMW Model's are sold globally.

 

[bendog]

I don't know what those tools are.

I was hoping someone else would know. Yes, I'm being flat out honest. I have no clue.

I believe Trump justified his first term foray into tariffs with the argument that our tools to demand fair trade (like china dumping below cost solar in Obama's day) just don't work.
The WTO is particular

World Trade Organization - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

not without reason, imo.

His disputes with europe over cars and protected food stuff .... not really so clear

 

[Delldude]

The main problem is historical mis-management and the cost of labor are so high relative to the rest of the world.

I read sometime ago, everybody ran to China and other places for cheap labor, only thing at this point in time is those workers have demanded better wages and so on over the years and now they're losing that edge making it attractive to come here.

 

[task0778]

The labor costs are not the issue - since the aforementioned European countries have far higher labor costs then the USA.

Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact the most Asian countries do not have unions and higher labor costs. That's why for a number of decades up to and including today that it is cheaper to produce products that are no longer inferior to US stuff and export it to us. How else do you figure the demand for exported stuff over US stuff? It's cost, not quality.

 

[justoffal]

I read sometime ago, everybody ran to China and other places for cheap labor, only thing at this point in time is those workers have demanded better wages and so on over the years and now they're losing that edge making it attractive to come here.

Additionally you can't produce anything in China without sharing the patents. That has not worked out so well for numerous companies that have made the mistake.

 

[task0778]

I read sometime ago, everybody ran to China and other places for cheap labor, only thing at this point in time is those workers have demanded better wages and so on over the years and now they're losing that edge making it attractive to come here.

I think the higher costs of shipping stuff here does have some effect. I am not sure that in many Asian countries the cost of labor has increased that much. There are some countries like South Korea and Japan have seen higher wages, which is why they build their cars here in RTW states. Same for EU countries. But other countries are less democratic, like China. If you demand higher wages then you and your family suddenly disappear.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Tariffs are a pawn in the chess game

 

[Blaster]

Mexico to send 10,000 troops to the border if Trump pauses tariffs on that country.

Winning!

 

[jc456]

Well said and while I'm sure technically all of those points are true.... Nothing attracts business to the United States like tariffs on foreign made goods.
There are already dozens of Canadian companies considering moving across the border. Now I don't think this thing is going to drag out... But I do think you will see Canada get off of its ass and start watching who's coming and going instead of just laying back and singing kumbaya like they have been for the past eight to ten years.

I'm waiting for Polivere to get in.... I think he will work very well with Trump.

 

[jwoodie]

There's no trustworthy evidence to believe that and no way to know how much that benefit is. Some industries might benefit but others will not, and it is the American who will pay for that benefit. I hope everyone realizes that a tariff is ultimately paid by the consumer. He/she will pay a higher price for the imported product or buy the higher priced American product. Or neither, maybe the consumers will buy neither and spend their money on something else.

And here's the kicker that no one is talking about: when you levy a tariff on somebody, they will retaliate in kind. They put a tariff on our exports to them, which is going to hurt those affected industries. It's a win-lose scenario, some businesses will do better and others will do worse. And nobody really knows how it will work out. BUT- I maintain that anytime you artificially raise prices on something, imported or not, that is not a good thing for the American consumer.

This is nothing but a Democrat talking point to erase the memory of REAL inflation of the Biden administration. With the current trade imbalances the US faces, tariffs will have a much greater impact on OTHER countries and will force them to modify their current trade practices. Any small price increases in the US will be more than made up by increases in domestic production.

THAT means more jobs, higher wages and increased revenue for the US. The Democrat alternative is higher taxes and a lower standard of living. Take your pick.

 

[bdtex]

Trump blinked.

 

[jc456]

Trump blinked.

And was victorious

 

[Dragonlady]

Fun Fact:

US Trade Exports have increased by 400% since 2000-2001. This seemingly exponential growth in our exports would seemingly suggest there would be no need for tariffs.

Trump is neglecting far more effective tools by which he could hammer Canada, China, Mexico, and the EU with. That increase over the past two and a half decades suggests tariffs aren't the best way to handle this. As someone has explained it to me, with far more knowledge on trade than I:

"The exponential revenue growth of our exports over that period of time outstrips the revenue we would gain by tariffs.

But now that we have implemented those tariffs, the US will see fewer imports, which will decrease US exports.

It would simply be better not to place tariffs on US exports at this point. The decrease in imports would likely trigger net job losses stateside."

In short, he said, "he should leave our imports/exports alone."

As for what more effective methods there are, I'll leave that up to you.

American wines and spirits from Red Statez are being removed from store shelves in a British Columbia.

Ontario’s LCBO is the world’s largest buyer of American wine and spirits. Ford has told Ontarians that all American products will be pulled from our shelves as well.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

American wines and spirits from Red Statez are being removed from store shelves in a British Columbia.

Ontario’s LCBO is the world’s largest buyer of American wine and spirits. Ford has told Ontarians that all American products will be pulled from our shelves as well.

Canadian alcoholics rejoice?

 

[d0gbreath]

In the end we will find that trump was bluffing, which he is wont to do. Make a huge big deal, then back down. As soon as he finds a way to explain that not utilizing the tariffs puts America first, we will hear about how great that, and he is by proxy.

 

[task0778]

Trump blinked.

How so?