The story of a doctor who killed the wrong baby

JenyEliza

Princess of Rhetoric
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
3,046
Reaction score
394
Points
48
Location
Atlanta, GA, USA
As the mother of boy/girl twins, this story turns my stomach completely.

Why was the ditz terminating either baby in the first place? The story didn't say the male baby's problems were incompatible with life, only that he had several problems, including Downs Syndrome.

A Downs Syndrome diagnosis is NO reason to terminate a child's life (IMHO).

The mother should be terminated, along with the doctor.

What fucking clueless morons.
 

JenyEliza

Princess of Rhetoric
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
3,046
Reaction score
394
Points
48
Location
Atlanta, GA, USA
The mother should be terminated, along with the doctor.
So you don't think they've been punished enough already?
No.

She'd still have two children if she'd never have gone to that doctor to kill one of her twins in the first place.

A Downs Syndrome diagnosis, with a *possible* heart problem is no reason to terminate your child's life. Downs babies commonly have fairly easily correctible heart defects.

When my twins were born, the lady who does my hair also became a grandmother for the very first time. Her daughter was 25 at the time and Trey was her first baby. No family hisotry or risk for Downs, she was under 30 and no indicators of Downs on Ultrasound or in the maternal alfa fetal protein test she had. There was no reason to believe Trey would be born as anything but a normal healthy little boy.

BIG surprise the day he was born. He came out looking "funny". Doctor whisked him away to the NICU for testing and medical support. Turns out Trey was downs and had a downs related heart defect that affected how much blood his heart could pump, leaving him working hard to oxygenate his blood/body without supplemental O2.

He stayed in NICU long enough to have the heart surgery.....and he came home. And after the family adjusted to the diagnosis, they fell in love with the little baby boy and cannot fathom his not being part of their family. He is the center of the family and he brings joy to ALL who know him.

Trey is now almost 16 (like my twins). He's in high school and though he's a "special" kid, all the kids in his school would go to the mat for him if anyone picked on him or bothered him in any way. Especially the jocks. Trey is *very* popular, doing well academically (though he won't ever be "normal") and one day is expected to live on his own (in a supervised/group home type setting), work (at Publix, Kroger or similar lines of work) and pay taxes.

Would you terminate this little boy knowing this? I wouldn't.

If you met him, you'd understand why I feel so strongly about this. In addition to being the mother of boy/girl twins, I am also very close to Trey and I can't imagine him not existing.

For more information on the "handicapped" being productive, independent, working members of society, visit Tommy Nobis' Center:

Tommy Nobis Center

Yes, the Hall of Famer helps train the "special" kids to work and earn a paycheck. It's nothing short of inspiring.

These children aren't medical waste.....they are real, living, breathing people. They love deeply, feel emotions keenly and want nothing more than to make the people they care about happy. We should all be so lucky as to view the world from their lens.
 

geauxtohell

Choose your weapon.
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Messages
15,125
Reaction score
2,169
Points
48
Location
Out here in the middle.
As the mother of boy/girl twins, this story turns my stomach completely.

Why was the ditz terminating either baby in the first place? The story didn't say the male baby's problems were incompatible with life, only that he had several problems, including Downs Syndrome.

A Downs Syndrome diagnosis is NO reason to terminate a child's life (IMHO).

The mother should be terminated, along with the doctor.

What fucking clueless morons.
Your opinion is irrelevant. A mother doesn't need a reason to terminate a pregnancy.
 

JenyEliza

Princess of Rhetoric
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
3,046
Reaction score
394
Points
48
Location
Atlanta, GA, USA
As the mother of boy/girl twins, this story turns my stomach completely.

Why was the ditz terminating either baby in the first place? The story didn't say the male baby's problems were incompatible with life, only that he had several problems, including Downs Syndrome.

A Downs Syndrome diagnosis is NO reason to terminate a child's life (IMHO).

The mother should be terminated, along with the doctor.

What fucking clueless morons.
Your opinion is irrelevant. A mother doesn't need a reason to terminate a pregnancy.
Legally speaking, you're right. She doesn't need a reason to terminate a pregnancy.

But she should. And it ought to be a fucking damned good one.

Downs Syndrome doesn't cut it.
 

geauxtohell

Choose your weapon.
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Messages
15,125
Reaction score
2,169
Points
48
Location
Out here in the middle.
Legally speaking, you're right. She doesn't need a reason to terminate a pregnancy.

But she should. And it ought to be a fucking damned good one.

Downs Syndrome doesn't cut it.
Legally speaking is the only relevant thing here. Whether a mother wants to carry a child with Down's Syndrome that is going to require serious life-long assistance and will, by all probabilities, have severe dementia is their early 40s is a choice that only an individual parent can make. No one can make it for them.
 

geauxtohell

Choose your weapon.
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Messages
15,125
Reaction score
2,169
Points
48
Location
Out here in the middle.
And laws change, gotohell. Laws change. :D
That is true.

BTW, here is some pathophysiology for you: Alzheimers affects people by creating plaques and tangles in the brain. The two proteins responsible for this are amyloid and tau. Amyloid is located on chromosome 21, which means it's over-expressed in patients with trisomy 21, which is why people with Down's Syndrome invariably get early onset dementia.

I certainly wouldn't want to abort a baby simply because they had downs and I think the people that raise children with Down's syndrome are saints. However, there is no denying that it's going to be a taxing event for the parents that is going to involve them well into their 60 and 70s.
 

JenyEliza

Princess of Rhetoric
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
3,046
Reaction score
394
Points
48
Location
Atlanta, GA, USA
And laws change, gotohell. Laws change. :D
That is true.

BTW, here is some pathophysiology for you: Alzheimers affects people by creating plaques and tangles in the brain. The two proteins responsible for this are amyloid and tau. Amyloid is located on chromosome 21, which means it's over-expressed in patients with trisomy 21, which is why people with Down's Syndrome invariably get early onset dementia.

I certainly wouldn't want to abort a baby simply because they had downs and I think the people that raise children with Down's syndrome are saints. However, there is no denying that it's going to be a taxing event for the parents that is going to involve them well into their 60 and 70s.
Thanks for that information! Very educational.

Even knowing that, I still would not abort a Downs baby. I just wouldn't.

I've known too many of these "special" people to think that they don't add value to our society, even though their needs are greater than the average Americans. Which you rightly point out.

If you have a chance, do visit Tommy Nobis' website. The Hall of Famer has a really neat charitable organization that helps make these special children productive citizens in their adulthood. He's really doing something important there, and I don't think he gets enough good press or praise for his mission.

Tommy Nobis Center

Providing Job Training
& Employment
for People with Disabilities
and Other Barriers
for 33 years​

We're excited that you want to learn more about us. We continue to work towards excellence in meeting the needs of our program participants, employees and business partners.

Our long-standing reputation of advocacy, getting people with disabilities employed and keeping them employed has made us a mainstay in the community. Our mission keeps us striving to deliver quality, cutting edge programs that make a difference in the lives of the people we serve.

We also produce smart business solutions with high quality, cost-effective services to our business customers. Choosing to do business with an organization of our magnitude and reputation requires no compromise.

We believe you will find that we are a unique and special organization, committed to being a part of the communities we serve. We invite you to click the pages to learn about our Rehabilitation Programs, Recycletronics ...at Tommy Nobis Center, The Tommy Nobis Foundation, and Nobis Business Services.
 

geauxtohell

Choose your weapon.
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Messages
15,125
Reaction score
2,169
Points
48
Location
Out here in the middle.
Thanks for that information! Very educational.
N/P. I found it interesting too. I don't think that technically they are considered to have alzheimers, but they certainly have early onset dementia and really the symptoms are very similar.

Even knowing that, I still would not abort a Downs baby. I just wouldn't.
I wouldn't want my significant other to abort a T21 child either. I recognize that some people do. I can understand their logic.

Thanks for the link.
 

JenyEliza

Princess of Rhetoric
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
3,046
Reaction score
394
Points
48
Location
Atlanta, GA, USA
Thanks for that information! Very educational.
N/P. I found it interesting too. I don't think that technically they are considered to have alzheimers, but they certainly have early onset dementia and really the symptoms are very similar.

Even knowing that, I still would not abort a Downs baby. I just wouldn't.
I wouldn't want my significant other to abort a T21 child either. I recognize that some people do. I can understand their logic.

Thanks for the link.
There are other Trisomy's that *would* give me pause, though. I can't remember if it was Trisomy 14 or 18, but a friend of mine did a late termination because her child had it and the doctors told her his condition was incompatible with life. (ie, he wouldn't live very long after birth and would suffer for the time he did live).

While I don't know if I have what it takes to go through what she did (ie, labor/delivery of an already dead/chemically aborted child--a shot directly to his heart), I understood her reasons and supported her the best I could.

At least they did not do the late-term procedure on her where they stabbed him w/scissors at the base of his brain and sucked them out. I can't understand at all how that is medically necessary. It seems barbaric in comparison with the procedure she had. Her child didn't feel the needle in his heart and it quickly stopped his heart and he was dead. The late-term procedure HAS to be painful. Who wants to be stabbed at the base of their skull w/scissors vs. a needle in the heart and a quick demise?

At any rate, I digress. A Trisomy21 baby would be an honor (and a challenge) to raise and I would forever worry about my child living in the world without me once I was gone. That's a stress I don't have in quite the same way as a T21/Downs Mom and never will.

So, maybe I should just STFU. I suppose a dead child is less worry than a live, handicapped child living on after you. :(
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
50,337
Reaction score
10,052
Points
0
The mother should be terminated, along with the doctor.
So you don't think they've been punished enough already?
As one of a twin, I cannot imagine how much I would hate my Mom, had she done something like this.

As someone who has family members with Downs (my Uncle adopted two kids with Downs), I don't understand why the Mom would terminate a child with Downs. However, if the article is correct, and I'm always hesitant to judge someone on a news article (because they are often factually inaccurate)... The boy child had other medical problems along with Downs. So, in my view, I can't condemn the Mom because I don't know all the circumstances. I feel sorry for her.... what an horrific choice to have to make.
 

Ravi

Diamond Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
90,898
Reaction score
13,984
Points
2,205
Location
Hating Hatters
Jesus has a sick sense of humor. Maybe he is a "conservative" Republican.

:eusa_eh:
 

geauxtohell

Choose your weapon.
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Messages
15,125
Reaction score
2,169
Points
48
Location
Out here in the middle.
There are other Trisomy's that *would* give me pause, though. I can't remember if it was Trisomy 14 or 18, but a friend of mine did a late termination because her child had it and the doctors told her his condition was incompatible with life. (ie, he wouldn't live very long after birth and would suffer for the time he did live).

While I don't know if I have what it takes to go through what she did (ie, labor/delivery of an already dead/chemically aborted child--a shot directly to his heart), I understood her reasons and supported her the best I could.

At least they did not do the late-term procedure on her where they stabbed him w/scissors at the base of his brain and sucked them out. I can't understand at all how that is medically necessary. It seems barbaric in comparison with the procedure she had. Her child didn't feel the needle in his heart and it quickly stopped his heart and he was dead. The late-term procedure HAS to be painful. Who wants to be stabbed at the base of their skull w/scissors vs. a needle in the heart and a quick demise?

At any rate, I digress. A Trisomy21 baby would be an honor (and a challenge) to raise and I would forever worry about my child living in the world without me once I was gone. That's a stress I don't have in quite the same way as a T21/Downs Mom and never will.

So, maybe I should just STFU. I suppose a dead child is less worry than a live, handicapped child living on after you. :(
Babies with other trisomies don't live long and are severely deformed. I don't think children with Edward's (T18) or Patau's (T13) live for more than a year in general. Since the amount of genetic information decreases as you go up the karyotype, it makes sense that T21 is really the only viable trisomy. The only other one I remember is T16, which is the highest cause of spontaneous abortions in pregnant women.
 

waltky

Wise ol' monkey
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
26,211
Reaction score
2,581
Points
275
Location
Okolona, KY
UK doctors caught not reporting half of Down's Syndrome cases...
:eek:
Investigation: UK Doctors Fail to Record Half of All Down Syndrome Abortions
June 9, 2014 -- A recent investigation by the United Kingdom’s Department of Health (DH) reveals that abortion clinic doctors in England and Wales are failing to report half of all abortions performed as a result of a Down syndrome diagnosis.
The discrepancy was found after comparing abortion data from 2012 submitted to the DH and data recorded by the National Down Syndrome Cytogenetic Register (NDSCR), an independent body that collects data on Down syndrome. Down syndrome is a genetic disorder typically caused by the presence of a third copy of chromosome 21. It is associated with various physical and cognitive disabilities. NDSCR recorded 994 abortions of babies with Down syndrome in 2012, while the official government figures only recorded 496. That leaves 498 Down syndrome abortions missing from Department of Health records, of which 11 are for abortions of babies 24 weeks and older. This is actually a slight improvement from 2011, according to the report, which found that DH recorded “410 out of 937 NDSCR records, resulting in 527 not in the DH dataset –13 of which were for 24 weeks and over.” A DH spokesman said that doctors in the UK have a legal obligation to report all abortions - including those done due to a fetal abnormality - to the chief medical officer within 14 days.

The DH report gave some possible explanations for the severe under-reporting of Down syndrome abortions, citing physicians' lack of organization and ignorance of the requirements at abortion clinics. "A possible explanation for some of the unmatched cases might be that some doctors completing an official Down’s syndrome Register form...think they do not need to complete an HSA4 [form]," the report noted. "It is also possible that some women may not be giving their correct postcode at abortion clinics. “In none of the units visited was there any evidence or impression that there was willful failure to comply with the law, but rather a lack of understanding of the statutory requirements, which in turn produced a lack of organisation and accountability,” the report concluded. “The NDSCR knows the correct figures because hospitals alert it every time a diagnosis of Down’s is made and it tracks cases to a birth or termination. Department of Health figures are compiled using abortion forms filled in by doctors.” according to the Daily Mail.

The UK’s 1991 amendment to the 1967 Abortion Act allows abortion of Down syndrome babies right up to the point of delivery. However, the DH report states that under the Abortion Act, “an HSA4 form must be completed by the doctor undertaking the termination of pregnancy including those undertaken on the grounds that 'there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.'” “Tory MP Fiona Bruce, chairman of the recent independent parliamentary inquiry into abortion for disability, said it was clear doctors had broken the law,” the Mail reported. “Worryingly, the department appears to have made no attempt to see that the law is properly enforced,” she was quoted as saying. The UK ProLife Alliance is calling for an inquiry into the under-reporting.

Investigation: UK Doctors Fail to Record Half of All Down Syndrome Abortions | CNS News
 

RetiredGySgt

Diamond Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
47,715
Reaction score
9,730
Points
2,040
Location
North Carolina
As the mother of boy/girl twins, this story turns my stomach completely.

Why was the ditz terminating either baby in the first place? The story didn't say the male baby's problems were incompatible with life, only that he had several problems, including Downs Syndrome.

A Downs Syndrome diagnosis is NO reason to terminate a child's life (IMHO).

The mother should be terminated, along with the doctor.

What fucking clueless morons.
Your opinion is irrelevant. A mother doesn't need a reason to terminate a pregnancy.
But we should have a reason to own a firearm right?
 

JoeB131

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
125,842
Reaction score
12,646
Points
2,220
Location
Chicago, Chicago, that Toddling Town
As the mother of boy/girl twins, this story turns my stomach completely.

Why was the ditz terminating either baby in the first place? The story didn't say the male baby's problems were incompatible with life, only that he had several problems, including Downs Syndrome.

A Downs Syndrome diagnosis is NO reason to terminate a child's life (IMHO).

The mother should be terminated, along with the doctor.

What fucking clueless morons.
91% of women who get a diagnosis of Down Syndrome terminate.

Science Bless
 

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top