The Stereotyping of Vietnam Combat Veterans

[usmcstinger]

Talk about a white wash! Duh! Would YOU prove all that if YOU would then become subject to Courts Martial or a war crimes charge and perhaps a lengthy stay in prison?

Look...let's be honest. The Winter Soldier Hearings were political theater and not much more. They were just a sign of the times and not an indication of anything else. The war was deeply unpopular by then and passions were aroused.

However...it must be noted that there IS a kernel of truth in that testimony, whether or not any particular claim can be irrefutably proven. Those kind of things DID happen and they did sometimes happen with the knowledge and consent of commanders. Anybody who served outside the wire in Vietnam knows it, whether they'll admit it or not, and particularly those who served late in the war. It's just warfare at its ugliest and is nothing new, nor is it an indictment of anyone.

It just is what it is.

And you know all this because you served in Vietnam? A simple Yes or No answers the question?

Yes. That picture as my avatar is me and it wasn't taken at Ft. Benning.[/QUOTE
What unit were you with in Vietnam and what was your job?

 

[Oldguy]

And you know all this because you served in Vietnam? A simple Yes or No answers the question?

Yes. That picture as my avatar is me and it wasn't taken at Ft. Benning.[/QUOTE
What unit were you with in Vietnam and what was your job?

2/1 Infantry, 196th Bde. Quang Nam and Quang Tin Provinces, I-Corp. Grunt.

 

[Godboy]

I was separated from the U.S. Army with an honorable discharge late in 1971

Went back to my home town and married my high schol sweetheart.

No one ever asked me where I had been; and I never brought the subject up in conversation.

Enrolled in college on the G.I. Bill and worked several jobs until I graduated.

Started a career, bought a home, and raised 6 children.

Never knew I was supposed to be a drug addicted and homeless psychopathic loner Vietnam Vet with homicidal tendencies until I saw how we were portrayed in movies like Rambo and on TV.

Where did I go wrong??

How about the part where you became a racist and a muslim?

Not a racist; but yes, I am a muslim...........

Oh, and youre a liar too? You suck triply.

 

[usmcstinger]

Yes. That picture as my avatar is me and it wasn't taken at Ft. Benning.[/QUOTE
What unit were you with in Vietnam and what was your job?

2/1 Infantry, 196th Bde. Quang Nam and Quang Tin Provinces, I-Corp. Grunt.

So you witnessed all of Kerry's bull shit. Tell me who committed what, when and where.

I was Infantry Fire Team Leader ( 0311 ) with the 1st Bn 4th Marines 67-68 We operated in Northern I Corps Thua Thien and Quang Tri Provinces. The next province after Quang Tri was in North Vietnam.

Our Patrols and ambushes rarely were near Vills. Operation Granite was conducted in the Mountains overlooking Camp Evans and the rest were out in front of C2, C2 Bridge and Con Thien. The only people in our TAOR ( nick named Indian country )were the NVA and us.

None of Kerry's bull shit took place where our 1/4 ,2/9, 3/9, and 3/3 operated. I never saw or heard rumors of any of his false accusations.
No other branch of the Armed Forces can replicate our superior discipline and leadership.
This part of the Marine Corpps Hymn sums it up :First to fight for right and freedom
And to keep our honor clean;

We are Marines for life and damn proud of it.

 

[Oldguy]

So you witnessed all of Kerry's bull shit. Tell me who committed what, when and where.

How the hell would I know? You can't see the Delta from I-Corps.

Our Patrols and ambushes rarely were near Vills. Operation Granite was conducted in the Mountains overlooking Camp Evans and the rest were out in front of C2, C2 Bridge and Con Thien. The only people in our TAOR ( nick named Indian country )were the NVA and us.

You were fortunate. Of course, the DMZ was only unpopulated because the civilians had been forcibly "resettled," which was an American euphemism for putting them into barbed wire camps. That's what anyone else would call a jail.

None of Kerry's bull shit took place where our 1/4 ,2/9, 3/9, and 3/3 operated. I never saw or heard rumors of any of his false accusations.

Never? What'd you do? Sleep through your tour?

No other branch of the Armed Forces can replicate our superior discipline and leadership.
This part of the Marine Corpps Hymn sums it up :First to fight for right and freedom
And to keep our honor clean;

We are Marines for life and damn proud of it.

Aw, shit. Here we go with the BS again. Yeah, yeah...we all know the Marines are just superior human beings. :roll eyes:

Of course, it WAS a Marine patrol Morley Safer filmed burning a village, which set off a shit storm here at home. Remember that?

ps: Ever hear of Son Thang? Look it up.

 

[JakeStarkey]

JK served honorably. End of discussion.

 

[MikeK]

Garbage it is! Pure bull shit, great to hear people have such insight into what they know nothing about, not one grain of truth. Crap nothing but crap.
Merry Christmas

Is that your opinion or can you substantiate what you've said? If so I would be very interested in learning what you know and how you've come to know it.

 

[Sunni Man]

JK served honorably. End of discussion.

For once I agree with you.

He served and was honorably discharged.

 

[MikeK]

This is what happens when you draft your military. They took everyone in ALL walks of life, and this is what happens when you do that. Theres a percentage of humans that will do horrible things if they feel they can get away with it. I imagine when certain people are on the other side of the planet, in the middle of a jungle, with a gun in their hand, law and order is out the window. There are certain people who only behave because of the rule of law, but when it cant be enforced, their true nature comes out. The traumatic effect of constantly seeing death and misery can only intensify their lack of humanity.

Don't blame the draft. Most of those who fought in WW-II were drafted and there are extremely few reported instances of Americans behaving barbarically toward captured Germans or Japanese soldiers, or any civilians, regardless of who or where.

I believe the behavior of combat troops is influenced by raison d'etre, which means their reason for being what and where they are. In the example of our WW-II military, their very purpose was noble and wholly justified and their overall behavior reflected that. The same simply cannot be said for those young men who were sent to Vietnam to kill and be killed for no credibly definable or morally justifiable purpose. And based on all I've read and heard (from Vietnam veterans) the egregious conduct didn't manifest until the GIs began to realize they were being badly misused by government.

What was a noble cause in WW-II was simply ugly and wrong in Vietnam.

 

[Oldguy]

Don't blame the draft. Most of those who fought in WW-II were drafted and there are extremely few reported instances of Americans behaving barbarically toward captured Germans or Japanese soldiers, or any civilians, regardless of who or where.

I think I'd have to disagree with that statement, especially concerning the Pacific war.

 

[Unkotare]

Don't blame the draft. Most of those who fought in WW-II were drafted and there are extremely few reported instances of Americans behaving barbarically toward captured Germans or Japanese soldiers, or any civilians, regardless of who or where. .

Are you kidding?

 

[JakeStarkey]

All of us who had older relatives in combat units who served against the enemy in WWII will tell you, MikeK, you are wrong.

 

[Sunni Man]

American soldiers were extremely barbaric towards the Japanese soldiers and rarely let any captured prisoners live.

 

[Big Black Dog]

I was a corpsman on a surgery ward at Bethesda Naval Hospital in 1970. We got medivacs into the hospital every day for surgery coming from Viet Nam. I personally removed many fingers and ears from the patients because we would go through their personal gear looking for this kind of stuff as part of their hospital admission. Were ears and fingers cut off Viet Cong KIAs? Yes, they often were. It's not a lie as Staidhup claims. He's full of shit.

 

[JakeStarkey]

My dad and my step-dad served in the infantry and in the USMC, respectively, in the Pacific in WWII.

Both said the atrocities of the Americans and the Japanese was terrible on both sides, though the Japanese were truly awful. Both dreaded capture almost worse than death. And by Iwo Jima and Okinawa, both sides were not taking prisoners except for intelligence needs.

Civilians? Of the more than 200,000 killed at Okinawa almost half were Okinawanese deaths.

War and morality are almost mutually exclusive.

 

[Oldguy]

I was a corpsman on a surgery ward at Bethesda Naval Hospital in 1970. We got medivacs into the hospital every day for surgery coming from Viet Nam. I personally removed many fingers and ears from the patients because we would go through their personal gear looking for this kind of stuff as part of their hospital admission. Were ears and fingers cut off Viet Cong KIAs? Yes, they often were. It's not a lie as Staidhup claims. He's full of shit.

I've seen ear necklaces. The ears look like thick, dried up potato chips.

 

[usmcstinger]

So you witnessed all of Kerry's bull shit. Tell me who committed what, when and where.

How the hell would I know? You can't see the Delta from I-Corps.

Our Patrols and ambushes rarely were near Vills. Operation Granite was conducted in the Mountains overlooking Camp Evans and the rest were out in front of C2, C2 Bridge and Con Thien. The only people in our TAOR ( nick named Indian country )were the NVA and us.

You were fortunate. Of course, the DMZ was only unpopulated because the civilians had been forcibly "resettled," which was an American euphemism for putting them into barbed wire camps. That's what anyone else would call a jail.

None of Kerry's bull shit took place where our 1/4 ,2/9, 3/9, and 3/3 operated. I never saw or heard rumors of any of his false accusations.

Never? What'd you do? Sleep through your tour?

No other branch of the Armed Forces can replicate our superior discipline and leadership.
This part of the Marine Corpps Hymn sums it up :First to fight for right and freedom
And to keep our honor clean;

We are Marines for life and damn proud of it.

Aw, shit. Here we go with the BS again. Yeah, yeah...we all know the Marines are just superior human beings. :roll eyes:

Of course, it WAS a Marine patrol Morley Safer filmed burning a village, which set off a shit storm here at home. Remember that?

ps: Ever hear of Son Thang? Look it up.

Morley Safer never told the whole story.On August 3, 1965, a reinforced marine rifle company was sent on a search and destroy operation against a complex of six hamlets named Cam Ne 4, south-southwest of the Danang air base. The area around Cam Ne 4 had long been controlled and occupied by the NLF, and spread throughout the villages were trenches, fighting holes, tactical caves and tunnels. Almost impenetrable thorny hedgerows around the villages and hamlets were often mined and booby-trapped.
Approaching the village , the third platoon on the right flank drew sustained sniper and automatic weapons fire. After a short time, the NLF, estimated at about 30, withdrew, but progress in penetrating the hamlet , checking civilians and huts, and in searching for booby traps and mines was nevertheless slow. Some houses were burned as a result of being hit by infantry weapons in reply to enemy fire. Others, after the villagers had been called together –outside- the dwellings, were set afire or blown up in order to ensure that the firing positions and tunnels around the houses would not again become military installations. In one of the huts, fired upon when the NLF had taken cover in it, was a dead Vietnamese boy of about 10 years of age. Several other civilians were wounded and so were four marines.
Zippo raids

Yeah, I heard about it
Son Thang-4 Five Marines killed five women and eleven children.
5 Marines out of the 293,000 that served in Vietnam.

The letter reads: "‘A battalion [sic] would kill maybe 15 to 20 [civilians] a day. With 4 batalions in the brigade that would be maybe 40 to 50 a day or 1,200 to 1,500 a month, easy. If I am only 10% right, and believe me it’s lots more, then I am trying to tell you about 120-150 murders, or a My Lay [sic] each month for over a year.’"
The Vietnam War
My point that Marines were more disciplined and had better leadership is correct

Generals Krulak and Walt thought the Communist leaders wanted to draw the Marines out of the populated I Corps coastal area into a campaign of attrition in the underpopulated areas of northern Quang Tri province.
If you knew anything about the the area, you would know it was not a area that the Vietnamese would want to live in. Any movement of civilians was conducted by the South Vietnamese Army.

 

[jillian]

When the vets came back, they were demonized, for a long time.

To deny that is to deny what happened.

they were... and that was wrong. i think people were much better this time about separating their disagreement with the war from the kids who were sent over.

but that also doesn't mean the negatives shouldn't have been discussed.

 

[jillian]

So you witnessed all of Kerry's bull shit. Tell me who committed what, when and where.

How the hell would I know? You can't see the Delta from I-Corps.




You were fortunate. Of course, the DMZ was only unpopulated because the civilians had been forcibly "resettled," which was an American euphemism for putting them into barbed wire camps. That's what anyone else would call a jail.



Never? What'd you do? Sleep through your tour?

No other branch of the Armed Forces can replicate our superior discipline and leadership.
This part of the Marine Corpps Hymn sums it up :First to fight for right and freedom
And to keep our honor clean;

We are Marines for life and damn proud of it.

Aw, shit. Here we go with the BS again. Yeah, yeah...we all know the Marines are just superior human beings. :roll eyes:

Of course, it WAS a Marine patrol Morley Safer filmed burning a village, which set off a shit storm here at home. Remember that?

ps: Ever hear of Son Thang? Look it up.

Morley Safer never told the whole story.On August 3, 1965, a reinforced marine rifle company was sent on a search and destroy operation against a complex of six hamlets named Cam Ne 4, south-southwest of the Danang air base. The area around Cam Ne 4 had long been controlled and occupied by the NLF, and spread throughout the villages were trenches, fighting holes, tactical caves and tunnels. Almost impenetrable thorny hedgerows around the villages and hamlets were often mined and booby-trapped.
Approaching the village , the third platoon on the right flank drew sustained sniper and automatic weapons fire. After a short time, the NLF, estimated at about 30, withdrew, but progress in penetrating the hamlet , checking civilians and huts, and in searching for booby traps and mines was nevertheless slow. Some houses were burned as a result of being hit by infantry weapons in reply to enemy fire. Others, after the villagers had been called together –outside- the dwellings, were set afire or blown up in order to ensure that the firing positions and tunnels around the houses would not again become military installations. In one of the huts, fired upon when the NLF had taken cover in it, was a dead Vietnamese boy of about 10 years of age. Several other civilians were wounded and so were four marines.
Zippo raids

Yeah, I heard about it
Son Thang-4 Five Marines killed five women and eleven children.
5 Marines out of the 293,000 that served in Vietnam.

The letter reads: "‘A battalion [sic] would kill maybe 15 to 20 [civilians] a day. With 4 batalions in the brigade that would be maybe 40 to 50 a day or 1,200 to 1,500 a month, easy. If I am only 10% right, and believe me it’s lots more, then I am trying to tell you about 120-150 murders, or a My Lay [sic] each month for over a year.’"
The Vietnam War
My point that Marines were more disciplined and had better leadership is correct

Generals Krulak and Walt thought the Communist leaders wanted to draw the Marines out of the populated I Corps coastal area into a campaign of attrition in the underpopulated areas of northern Quang Tri province.
If you knew anything about the the area, you would know it was not a area that the Vietnamese would want to live in. Any movement of civilians was conducted by the South Vietnamese Army.

moral of the story... don't read garbage in the rightwingnut blogosphere so you can revise history.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Lefty and righty blogs will revise history without context or understanding, only for propaganda edge.