The state embraces the church?

[marvin martian]

By the way, why didn't your God stop catholic priests from doing what they did?


Fuck theocracy...if you want one, you are more than welcome to move and live under one...

Tell your fellow DemoKKKrat Eric Adams, he's the one pushing for a theocracy. You voted for him, right?

 

[jehanne1431]

Fuck theocracy...if you want one, you are more than welcome to move and live under one...

If Christians in the U.S. wanted a theocracy, they would have established one 100 or 200 years ago without opposition.
Clearly, they did not want one, so quit acting like an adversary thriving on propaganda and speculative B.S.

 

[Votto]

If Christians in the U.S. wanted a theocracy, they would have established one 100 or 200 years ago without opposition.
Clearly, they did not want one, so quit acting like an adversary thriving on propaganda and speculative B.S.

Well said.

This is perhaps Ben Franklins greatest speech.

I confess that I do not entirely approve of this Constitution at present, but Sir, I am not sure I shall never approve it: For having lived long, I have experienced many Instances of being oblig’d, by better Information or fuller Consideration, to change Opinions even on important Subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise. It is therefore that the older I grow the more apt I am to doubt my own Judgment and to pay more Respect to the Judgment of others. Most Men indeed as well as most Sects in Religion, think themselves in Possession of all Truth, and that wherever others differ from them it is so far Error. [Sir Richard] Steele, a Protestant, in a Dedication tells the Pope, that the only Difference between our two Churches in their Opinions of the Certainty of their Doctrine, is, the Romish Church is infallible, and the Church of England is never in the Wrong. But tho’ many private Persons think almost as highly of their own Infallibility, as that of their Sect, few express it so naturally as a certain French lady, who in a little Dispute with her Sister, said, I don’t know how it happens, Sister, but I meet with no body but myself that’s always in the right.

In these Sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its Faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well administred; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administred for a Course of Years, and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.

Franklin knew that morality was the key to maintaining freedom, and he further knew morality was best secured by those who practiced their respective faiths.

 

[Votto]

If Christians in the U.S. wanted a theocracy, they would have established one 100 or 200 years ago without opposition.
Clearly, they did not want one, so quit acting like an adversary thriving on propaganda and speculative B.S.

The Founders came from England where the state controlled the pulpit.

The Founders saw the abuses that then ensued, and did not wish to repeat it.

The Catholic church, in similar fashion, had the Pope once control entire world governments and kings. The abuses then flowed, such as the persecution of the Jews, Inquisitions, Crusades, etc.

The holiness of God can never cohabitate with the politics of evil men. This is what Jesus meant by saying that his kingdom was not of this world nor could be, even though his kingdom had come to earth through him.

At the same time, the evil hearts of men need to be addressed by God via faith or things will only get worse which is why Christ came and made the world a better place.

 

[jehanne1431]

Well said.

This is perhaps Ben Franklins greatest speech.

I confess that I do not entirely approve of this Constitution at present, but Sir, I am not sure I shall never approve it: For having lived long, I have experienced many Instances of being oblig’d, by better Information or fuller Consideration, to change Opinions even on important Subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise. It is therefore that the older I grow the more apt I am to doubt my own Judgment and to pay more Respect to the Judgment of others. Most Men indeed as well as most Sects in Religion, think themselves in Possession of all Truth, and that wherever others differ from them it is so far Error. [Sir Richard] Steele, a Protestant, in a Dedication tells the Pope, that the only Difference between our two Churches in their Opinions of the Certainty of their Doctrine, is, the Romish Church is infallible, and the Church of England is never in the Wrong. But tho’ many private Persons think almost as highly of their own Infallibility, as that of their Sect, few express it so naturally as a certain French lady, who in a little Dispute with her Sister, said, I don’t know how it happens, Sister, but I meet with no body but myself that’s always in the right.

In these Sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its Faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well administred; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administred for a Course of Years, and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.

Franklin knew that morality was the key to maintaining freedom, and he further knew morality was best secured by those who practiced their respective faiths.

Ben made a good point there, and humility shown through. . A message totally lost on today's culture.
But I could never read original letters of ancient times, the English prose takes too much time to think it through and grasp the message.

 

[jehanne1431]

The abuses then flowed, such as the persecution of the Jews, Inquisitions, Crusades, etc.

Hold on. . I will only accept the first one of the three as authentic "persecution." . . But let's talk about that another day. . : D

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

If Christians in the U.S. wanted a theocracy, they would have established one 100 or 200 years ago without opposition.
Clearly, they did not want one, so quit acting like an adversary thriving on propaganda and speculative B.S.

Well, to be factually correct, The Puritans of Mass. DID establish a functioning theocracy, but by the time the US was formed the majority of Americans were against it.
Indeed, and to this day, many Christians do want "the shining city on a hill" --a Christian state. Luckily, the majority of Americans still want nothing to do with such a thing.
IMO..the separation of Church and State is the one the Great Ideas of our Founders..perhaps even the greatest~

Just a note..the US was formed by many people over many years..quite a few of them were NOT Christian...and most of those who identified as Christian agreed that the Church should wield NO secular power at all. I imagine this was because of the painful lessens learned during 1,000+ years of religious warfare...most of it Christian vs Christian.