The Socialist Plan

[Freiheit]

Could someone define terms: define socialism, only credible sources are acceptable. WND, Daily Kos and etc., and etc., not
acceptable.

 

[regent]

Were the County Poor Houses socialism?

 

[AVG-JOE]

If the American people want a program that is labeled socialist and they are willing to pay for it, is that OK?

Care to take a guess at what the projected tax rate would be for all that FREE stuff?

If taxes are ever collected fairly, and the average, upper-middle class obligation doesn't change, I'll bet that the national income would be surprising. Might even be enough in there to rebuild some infrastructure, ass-u-me-ing we can figure out a way to spend less on the military industrial complex that's been sucking down what comes in via the corrupt code currently in place.

If the American people want a socialist program and are willing to pay for it is that OK?

Apparently.

The Railroad is probably the oldest and largest example of government building something on behalf of the people.

Social Security and Medicare also spring to mind, although Medicare started off as a gift to the insurance companies, having the taxpayers foot the bills for the elderly.

There was a LOT of private investing for the railroad BUT it was the first mass use of public finds interstate.

Oh, it was a fantastic acquisition of infrastructure for the nation.

There is nothing wrong with our government making big moves like that either.

If the conservatives of today had been in charge at the right moment in history, The United States would end where the nation created by whoever ended up buying The Louisiana Purchase began.

 

[Contumacious]

If the parasites could afford the free stuff they demand , they would not be trading their souls with the devil.

Define 'souls' and 'devil' in this context.

Please.

PARASITES those who demand that the government feed them, clothe them, insure them, provide them free education , invade the country du jour or chase the latest War Party boogeyman.

The devil " Those politicians who have swore to defend and support the gargantuan welfare/warfare police state.


.

 

[Freiheit]

Care to take a guess at what the projected tax rate would be for all that FREE stuff?

If taxes are ever collected fairly, and the average, upper-middle class obligation doesn't change, I'll bet that the national income would be surprising. Might even be enough in there to rebuild some infrastructure, ass-u-me-ing we can figure out a way to spend less on the military industrial complex that's been sucking down what comes in via the corrupt code currently in place.

If the American people want a socialist program and are willing to pay for it is that OK?

Apparently.

The Railroad is probably the oldest and largest example of government building something on behalf of the people.

Social Security and Medicare also spring to mind, although Medicare started off as a gift to the insurance companies, having the taxpayers foot the bills for the elderly.

There was a LOT of private investing for the railroad BUT it was the first mass use of public finds interstate.

Oh, it was a fantastic acquisition of infrastructure for the nation.

There is nothing wrong with our government making big moves like that either.

If the conservatives of today had been in charge at the right moment in history, The United States would end where the nation created by whoever ended up buying The Louisiana Purchase began.

The Railroad was categorically not socialism, crony capitalism perhaps but not socialism.

 

[AVG-JOE]

If the American people want a program that is labeled socialist and they are willing to pay for it, is that OK?

Care to take a guess at what the projected tax rate would be for all that FREE stuff?

If taxes are ever collected fairly, and the average, upper-middle class obligation doesn't change, I'll bet that the national income would be surprising. Might even be enough in there to rebuild some infrastructure, ass-u-me-ing we can figure out a way to spend less on the military industrial complex that's been sucking down what comes in via the corrupt code currently in place.

If the American people want a socialist program and are willing to pay for it is that OK?

Apparently.

The Railroad is probably the oldest and largest example of government building something on behalf of the people.

.

On behalf of the "people" ...sort of

Why the Republican Party Elected Lincoln


"From the time he entered politics in 1832, Abraham Lincoln aspired to such a position. That is why he became a Whig, the party of the moneyed elite. Lincoln was one of the most money- and power-hungry politicians in American history.


As soon as he entered the Illinois legislature he led his local delegation in a successful Whig Party effort to appropriate some $12 million in taxpayer subsidies for railroad and canal-building corporations. In his landmark book, Lincoln and the Railroads, first published in 1927 and reprinted in 1981 by Arno Press, John W. Starr, Jr. noted how one of Lincoln’s colleagues in the legislature said "He seemed to be a born politician. We followed his lead . . . " And they followed Lincoln down a road that would nearly bankrupt the state of Illinois. The $12 million was squandered: Almost no projects were completed with it; much of the money was stolen; and the taxpayers of Illinois were put deep into debt for years to come."


.

I hear ya. It's like Ike and his interstate highways, though... what started off as a good tool for the military gets used by the general public and the economy grows productively.

The productive economic success generated by the railroad and the phenomenal economic boom that continues to blossom from investing The Peoples treasure in the interstate highway system is a compelling argument for government investment in both the internet and in access to it.

 

[Contumacious]

If taxes are ever collected fairly, and the average, upper-middle class obligation doesn't change, I'll bet that the national income would be surprising. Might even be enough in there to rebuild some infrastructure, ass-u-me-ing we can figure out a way to spend less on the military industrial complex that's been sucking down what comes in via the corrupt code currently in place.

If the American people want a socialist program and are willing to pay for it is that OK?

Apparently.

The Railroad is probably the oldest and largest example of government building something on behalf of the people.

Social Security and Medicare also spring to mind, although Medicare started off as a gift to the insurance companies, having the taxpayers foot the bills for the elderly.

There was a LOT of private investing for the railroad BUT it was the first mass use of public finds interstate.

Oh, it was a fantastic acquisition of infrastructure for the nation.

There is nothing wrong with our government making big moves like that either.

If the conservatives of today had been in charge at the right moment in history, The United States would end where the nation created by whoever ended up buying The Louisiana Purchase began.

The Railroad was categorically not socialism, crony capitalism perhaps but not socialism.

True.

It was more akin to fascism or corporatism.

 

[AVG-JOE]

If taxes are ever collected fairly, and the average, upper-middle class obligation doesn't change, I'll bet that the national income would be surprising. Might even be enough in there to rebuild some infrastructure, ass-u-me-ing we can figure out a way to spend less on the military industrial complex that's been sucking down what comes in via the corrupt code currently in place.

If the American people want a socialist program and are willing to pay for it is that OK?

Apparently.

The Railroad is probably the oldest and largest example of government building something on behalf of the people.

Social Security and Medicare also spring to mind, although Medicare started off as a gift to the insurance companies, having the taxpayers foot the bills for the elderly.

There was a LOT of private investing for the railroad BUT it was the first mass use of public finds interstate.

Oh, it was a fantastic acquisition of infrastructure for the nation.

There is nothing wrong with our government making big moves like that either.

If the conservatives of today had been in charge at the right moment in history, The United States would end where the nation created by whoever ended up buying The Louisiana Purchase began.

The Railroad was categorically not socialism, crony capitalism perhaps but not socialism.

In the broad categories painted in to the conservative thesis of this thread it's as socialist as we need it to be. It's the government spending money out of any building but The Pentagon.

 

[Clementine]

What you call Sanders' 'socialist' agenda, point by point, is more popular with the American people than the average rightwing anti-socialist agenda.

It's more popular with those who the Dems have already conditioned to feel entitled to everything. I do believe the majority still believe that they are responsible for their own lives.

 

[Contumacious]

Care to take a guess at what the projected tax rate would be for all that FREE stuff?

If taxes are ever collected fairly, and the average, upper-middle class obligation doesn't change, I'll bet that the national income would be surprising. Might even be enough in there to rebuild some infrastructure, ass-u-me-ing we can figure out a way to spend less on the military industrial complex that's been sucking down what comes in via the corrupt code currently in place.

If the American people want a socialist program and are willing to pay for it is that OK?

Apparently.

The Railroad is probably the oldest and largest example of government building something on behalf of the people.

.

On behalf of the "people" ...sort of

Why the Republican Party Elected Lincoln


"From the time he entered politics in 1832, Abraham Lincoln aspired to such a position. That is why he became a Whig, the party of the moneyed elite. Lincoln was one of the most money- and power-hungry politicians in American history.


As soon as he entered the Illinois legislature he led his local delegation in a successful Whig Party effort to appropriate some $12 million in taxpayer subsidies for railroad and canal-building corporations. In his landmark book, Lincoln and the Railroads, first published in 1927 and reprinted in 1981 by Arno Press, John W. Starr, Jr. noted how one of Lincoln’s colleagues in the legislature said "He seemed to be a born politician. We followed his lead . . . " And they followed Lincoln down a road that would nearly bankrupt the state of Illinois. The $12 million was squandered: Almost no projects were completed with it; much of the money was stolen; and the taxpayers of Illinois were put deep into debt for years to come."


.

I hear ya. It's like Ike and his interstate highways, though... what started off as a good tool for the military gets used by the general public and the economy grows productively.

The productive economic success generated by the railroad and the phenomenal economic boom that continues to blossom from investing The Peoples treasure in the interstate highway system is a compelling argument for government investment in both the internet and in access to it.

BS



How to Build a Railroad

Most business historians have assumed that the transcontinental railroads would never have been built without government subsidies. The free market would have failed to provide the adequate capital, or so the theory asserts. The evidence for this theory is that the Union Pacific and Central Pacific railroads, which were completed in the years after the War Between the States, received per-mile subsidies from the federal government in the form of low-interest loans as well as massive land grants. But there need not be cause and effect here: the subsidies were not needed to cause the transcontinental railroads to be built. We know this because, just as many roads and canals were privately financed in the early nineteenth century, a market entrepreneur built his own transcontinental railroad. James J. Hill built the Great Northern Railroad "without any government aid, even the right of way, through hundreds of miles of public lands, being paid for in cash," as Hill himself stated.[2]

 

[AVG-JOE]

If the parasites could afford the free stuff they demand , they would not be trading their souls with the devil.

Define 'souls' and 'devil' in this context.

Please.

PARASITES those who demand that the government feed them, clothe them, insure them, provide them free education , invade the country du jour or chase the latest War Party boogeyman.

The devil " Those politicians who have swore to defend and support the gargantuan welfare/warfare police state.


.

I didn't ask for a definition of 'parasites', but thanks, very thorough.

What peaks my curiosity is what you mean by 'souls'.

What is this mystery thing that can be traded like a commodity?

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

If taxes are ever collected fairly, and the average, upper-middle class obligation doesn't change, I'll bet that the national income would be surprising. Might even be enough in there to rebuild some infrastructure, ass-u-me-ing we can figure out a way to spend less on the military industrial complex that's been sucking down what comes in via the corrupt code currently in place.

If the American people want a socialist program and are willing to pay for it is that OK?

Apparently.

The Railroad is probably the oldest and largest example of government building something on behalf of the people.

.

On behalf of the "people" ...sort of

Why the Republican Party Elected Lincoln


"From the time he entered politics in 1832, Abraham Lincoln aspired to such a position. That is why he became a Whig, the party of the moneyed elite. Lincoln was one of the most money- and power-hungry politicians in American history.


As soon as he entered the Illinois legislature he led his local delegation in a successful Whig Party effort to appropriate some $12 million in taxpayer subsidies for railroad and canal-building corporations. In his landmark book, Lincoln and the Railroads, first published in 1927 and reprinted in 1981 by Arno Press, John W. Starr, Jr. noted how one of Lincoln’s colleagues in the legislature said "He seemed to be a born politician. We followed his lead . . . " And they followed Lincoln down a road that would nearly bankrupt the state of Illinois. The $12 million was squandered: Almost no projects were completed with it; much of the money was stolen; and the taxpayers of Illinois were put deep into debt for years to come."


.

I hear ya. It's like Ike and his interstate highways, though... what started off as a good tool for the military gets used by the general public and the economy grows productively.

The productive economic success generated by the railroad and the phenomenal economic boom that continues to blossom from investing The Peoples treasure in the interstate highway system is a compelling argument for government investment in both the internet and in access to it.

BS



How to Build a Railroad

Most business historians have assumed that the transcontinental railroads would never have been built without government subsidies. The free market would have failed to provide the adequate capital, or so the theory asserts. The evidence for this theory is that the Union Pacific and Central Pacific railroads, which were completed in the years after the War Between the States, received per-mile subsidies from the federal government in the form of low-interest loans as well as massive land grants. But there need not be cause and effect here: the subsidies were not needed to cause the transcontinental railroads to be built. We know this because, just as many roads and canals were privately financed in the early nineteenth century, a market entrepreneur built his own transcontinental railroad. James J. Hill built the Great Northern Railroad "without any government aid, even the right of way, through hundreds of miles of public lands, being paid for in cash," as Hill himself stated.[2]

The project simply required too much capital before any profit could be realized, so the rich folks of the day turned to the tool of government to make it happen.

 

[Contumacious]

If the parasites could afford the free stuff they demand , they would not be trading their souls with the devil.

Define 'souls' and 'devil' in this context.

Please.

PARASITES those who demand that the government feed them, clothe them, insure them, provide them free education , invade the country du jour or chase the latest War Party boogeyman.

The devil " Those politicians who have swore to defend and support the gargantuan welfare/warfare police state.


.

I didn't ask for a definition of 'parasites', but thanks, very thorough.

What peaks my curiosity is what you mean by 'souls'.

What is this mystery thing that can be traded like a commodity?

​

The VOTE - parasites vote early and often.


What set of "principles" would motivate an AMERICAN to vote for an avowed socialist candidate like Comrade Bernard Sanders.


.

 

[AVG-JOE]

And the definition of 'souls' in the context of your post is.... ?

 

[Contumacious]

And the definition of 'souls' in the context of your post is.... ?

The strings attached to every handout.

Typically the parasites have to accept government involvement in their lives - ie, the social worker, TSA, IRS, etc etc.


.

 

[Political Junky]

What you call Sanders' 'socialist' agenda, point by point, is more popular with the American people than the average rightwing anti-socialist agenda.

That IS Sanders platform RETARD. NOT what I am calling it what HE is calling it idiot. Do you DENY Sanders is a socialist? HE says He is.

Sanders calls himself a Democratic Socialist. Is it OK is we call the new Far Right group in Congress Fascists?

 

[mgh80]

JFK lowered the highest tax bracket's taxes by 21%. What a right-wing loon! Didn't he know that the rich needed to pay their "fair share"?

 

[bripat9643]

What you call Sanders' 'socialist' agenda, point by point, is more popular with the American people than the average rightwing anti-socialist agenda.

That IS Sanders platform RETARD. NOT what I am calling it what HE is calling it idiot. Do you DENY Sanders is a socialist? HE says He is.

He's a democratic socialist. The best position anyone can have in the 21st century.

Haven't Dims been denying they are socialists for the last 100 years?

 

[DarkFury]

What you call Sanders' 'socialist' agenda, point by point, is more popular with the American people than the average rightwing anti-socialist agenda.

That IS Sanders platform RETARD. NOT what I am calling it what HE is calling it idiot. Do you DENY Sanders is a socialist? HE says He is.

He's a democratic socialist. The best position anyone can have in the 21st century.

Haven't Dims been denying they are socialists for the last 100 years?

Yup, and very shortly here they will HAVE to accept Sanders Socialist democrat.

 

[bripat9643]

If the American people want a program that is labeled socialist and they are willing to pay for it, is that OK?

Care to take a guess at what the projected tax rate would be for all that FREE stuff?

If taxes are ever collected fairly, and the average, upper-middle class obligation doesn't change, I'll bet that the national income would be surprising. Might even be enough in there to rebuild some infrastructure, ass-u-me-ing we can figure out a way to spend less on the military industrial complex that's been sucking down what comes in via the corrupt code currently in place.

If the American people want a socialist program and are willing to pay for it is that OK?

Only if the ones who want it are the ones who pay for it.