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The Self Inflicted Rise and Fall of Donald J Trump, as of Today

jc456

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Not a fucking thing from the Constitution which is why he pursues this irrelevant argument as he KNOWS he can't cite the power from the Constitution allowing the Veep to overthrow certified electors given from the states.
You're falling into demofk techniques. No one said for the Veep to overthrow a fking thing. I see when you have to make it up, sincerity isn't there.
 

jc456

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"Pence has ZERO authority to handle the letters requests from states which are not valid anyway since those states CERTIFIED them on December 14, 2020, thus moot on what the states legislatures wanted.
It's a state's issue, not the feds.
 

Sunsettommy

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You're falling into demofk techniques. No one said for the Veep to overthrow a fking thing. I see when you have to make it up, sincerity isn't there.

So, you can't cite any constitutional power for the Veep to do what YOUR link proposes.
It's a state's issue, not the feds.

The States CERIFIED them on December 14, 2020 which includes the SECRETARY of STATE!
 

jc456

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So, you can't cite any constitutional power for the Veep to do what YOUR link proposes.


The States CERIFIED them on December 14, 2020 which includes the SECRETARY of STATE!
It's a state law, run by the legislative branch of the state. I gave you the information.
 

Sunsettommy

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You're falling into demofk techniques. No one said for the Veep to overthrow a fking thing. I see when you have to make it up, sincerity isn't there.

YOUR link talks about it from the start of the article.

"Constitutional lawyer Ivan Raiklin on Dec. 22 sent out a tweet urging Vice President Mike Pence to inform the secretaries of state in six contested states that he cannot accept their certified electors because they were not legally appointed due to overwhelming evidence of election fraud.

Raiklin contends that the U.S. Constitution grants the Vice President the power to overturn a manifestly fraudulent election."

===

But Raiklin never cites from the Constitution to support his absurd claim.

:oops8:
 

Sunsettommy

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It's a state law, run by the legislative branch of the state. I gave you the information.

The very same states who CERTIFIED them with THEIR Secretary of States.

The State Legislature has no defined power to prevent a legal certification process when their own Secretary of State signed it on December 14 as required by law.

Your link doesn't make such a case.
 

jc456

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YOUR link talks about it from the start of the article.

"Constitutional lawyer Ivan Raiklin on Dec. 22 sent out a tweet urging Vice President Mike Pence to inform the secretaries of state in six contested states that he cannot accept their certified electors because they were not legally appointed due to overwhelming evidence of election fraud.

Raiklin contends that the U.S. Constitution grants the Vice President the power to overturn a manifestly fraudulent election."

===

But Raiklin never cites from the Constitution to support his absurd claim.

:oops8:
I'm pretty sure I added this quote,

Under Art. II, Section 1 of the Constitution, each state, as its legislature “may direct,” will “appoint” its electors. Because the six disputed states (Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin) ran entirely fraudulent elections, and because their legislatures did not dictate fraudulent elections, there is nothing to certify, Raiklin said.
 

Sunsettommy

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I'm pretty sure I added this quote,

Under Art. II, Section 1 of the Constitution, each state, as its legislature “may direct,” will “appoint” its electors. Because the six disputed states (Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin) ran entirely fraudulent elections, and because their legislatures did not dictate fraudulent elections, there is nothing to certify, Raiklin said.

Yet their Secretary of States Certified them according to law, which means the states didn't stop it as their own Secretary of State Certified it for the state.

How can you keep ignoring the CERTIFICATION process by their own Secretary of State who signs it and sends it to Congress?
 

jc456

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Yet their Secretary of States Certified them according to law, which means the states didn't stop it as their own Secretary of State Certified it for the state.

How can you keep ignoring the CERTIFICATION process by their own Secretary of State who signs it and sends it to Congress?
Secretary of State isn't part of the legislative branch.
 

Sunsettommy

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Secretary of State isn't part of the legislative branch.

You have nothing against my evidence/factual replies to just endless detours to a real counterpoint YOU avoid making.

Secretary of State is the arbiter of elections in the state and for Federal elections, when she CERTIFY the list of electors on December 14, 2020, the state legislature can't do a thing about it.

From the State of Arizona website

"The Secretary of State serves as the chief election officer in the state of Arizona, which includes oversight of campaign finance for statewide and legislative candidates, verifying initiatives and referenda for the ballot, and certifying the official results of each election. A statewide or legislative election is scheduled for every even-numbered year unless a special election is required."

bolding mine

=====

and her office again from the State of Arizona website,

"About the Office​

The Arizona Secretary of State's office is charged with a number of important state functions, including serving as acting governor when the governor is absent from the state. Like lieutenant governors in other states, the Secretary of State is first in line to succeed the governor in the event of death, resignation or removal from office."

=====

The Legislature has NO legislative power to overturn elections that are certified and sent to Congress.
 
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Chillicothe

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It's a state's issue, not the feds.
Am I naive to think that that acknowledgement should end it?
That once the State certified per their own particular state laws the election is over for that state?
Bada bing!

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Because the six disputed states (Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin) ran entirely fraudulent elections, and because their legislatures did not dictate fraudulent elections, there is nothing to certify, Raiklin said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mmmm?
That seems a tad unsupported .... then. And now.
But, we can play the line out a bit: So, this Raiklin guy singularly declares each of those states had fraudulent elections (how could he know?)...anyway, so he merely says they are fraudulent ergo they must be?
And that's how it works?
Who knew?
What if I said they weren't fraudulent......ergo.....they must not be?

One guy, somewhere, writes a Tweet and says it is so.....and that finalizes the deal?

Ummm, paint me somewhat skeptical.
Ummm, paint me snarkily condescending and laughing at JC's argument.

But that's just me. YMMV
 

jc456

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Secretary of State is the arbiter of elections in the state and for Federal elections, when she CERTIFY the list of electors on December 14, 2020, the state legislature can't do a thing about it.
show where the state rules say the Secretary of State overrules legislative branch.
 

jc456

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Am I naive to think that that acknowledgement should end it?
That once the State certified per their own particular state laws the election is over for that state?
Bada bing!

-------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mmmm?
That seems a tad unsupported .... then. And now.
But, we can play the line out a bit: So, this Raiklin guy singularly declares each of those states had fraudulent elections (how could he know?)...anyway, so he merely says they are fraudulent ergo they must be?
And that's how it works?
Who knew?
What if I said they weren't fraudulent......ergo.....they must not be?

One guy, somewhere, writes a Tweet and says it is so.....and that finalizes the deal?

Ummm, paint me somewhat skeptical.
Ummm, paint me snarkily condescending and laughing at JC's argument.

But that's just me. YMMV
dude, you can laugh all you fking want. Doesn't change the facts. Fact, illegal extension of a federal election, not authorized by the state legislators. Every ballot counted after Nov 3 is fraudulent. That's merely a fact of law. And the fact that 50 judges didn't allow the evidence to be presented doesn't change the facts. The judges were paid off. No other explanation.
 

Sunsettommy

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show where the state rules say the Secretary of State overrules legislative branch.

You are digging very deep fella, several times I have posted hard evidence that the election was CERTIFIED (A legally mandated action) by the Secretary of State on December 14, 2020, the state Legislature can't stop it which you never countered.

The State legislature has ZERO power to overturn it which you never countered, and the V.P. Pence has ZERO constitutional power to overturn any State Certified Election results which you never countered.

You haven't countered a single thing I posted which I back with the law and duties of office. The Constitution doesn't support you neither does the State of Arizona.

The Democrats are thrilled that republicans are making asses of themselves over this OBVIOUS lost cause which will hurt Trump in the long run, and they know it which is why they are happy.
 

jc456

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You are digging very deep fella, several times I have posted hard evidence that the election was CERTIFIED (A legally mandated action) by the Secretary of State on December 14, 2020, the state Legislature can't stop it which you never countered.

The State legislature has ZERO power to overturn it which you never countered, and the V.P. Pence has ZERO constitutional power to overturn any State Certified Election results which you never countered.

You haven't countered a single thing I posted which I back with the law and duties of office. The Constitution doesn't support you neither does the State of Arizona.

The Democrats are thrilled that republicans are making asses of themselves over this OBVIOUS lost cause which will hurt Trump in the long run, and they know it which is why they are happy.
88 legislators from six states say they didn't certify the count. Sent a letter to the President of the US Senate they challenge the count.
 

Chillicothe

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"88 legislators from six states say they didn't certify the count. Sent a letter to the President of the US Senate they challenge the count."
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That sounds reallly really serious, good poster jc.
Portentous, even.

A question though: Did those combined 88 legislators constitute a majority of the legislators from their respective states?

Or was it a handful of mokes who fired off a letter because Rudy Guiliani, or Krakenpot Lady asked 'em to?

I ask, because 88 legislators only come to an average of about 18 from each state.

And to me, 18 doesn't sound like a whole lot ....or even enough.....legislators to speak for their entire State Senate and State House of Representatives. No?

And, of these 88 bi-partisan state legislators...... how many would you guess were just disgruntled Republicans?
Just askin'.
 

Sunsettommy

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88 legislators from six states say they didn't certify the count. Sent a letter to the President of the US Senate they challenge the count.
Ha ha ha, they have ZERO legal force which you never supply thus just clutching at straws is all you have left.

Only the Secretary of State has that power NOT the state legislature to Certify, why do you keep ignoring the evidence I posted several times now?

This is straight from The State of Arizona government website second time I post this you going to stop ignoring it?

"The Secretary of State serves as the chief election officer in the state of Arizona, which includes oversight of campaign finance for statewide and legislative candidates, verifying initiatives and referenda for the ballot, and certifying the official results of each election. A statewide or legislative election is scheduled for every even-numbered year unless a special election is required."

You haven't countered anything I posted with hard evidence just a lot of babble and the 6 states did CERTIFIY the election via their Secretary of State already posted 3 links showing three of the states doing it which YOU ignored.

Repeatedly showed that Pence has ZERO constitutional power to challenge Certified documents.

Stop making a fool of yourself!
 
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Sunsettommy

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Yeah, who cares if democrats added over 10MM fake votes in 2020, I mean no harm no foul, right?

It has been TWO years, has anything changed?

Biden is still in the White House and Trump supporters are still beating a claim they lost in court dozens of times and SCOTUS says no.

What do you have left to offer besides pushing a dead horse further?
 

jc456

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Ha ha ha, they have ZERO legal force which you never supply thus just clutching at straws is all you have left.

Only the Secretary of State has that power NOT the state legislature to Certify, why do you keep ignoring the evidence I posted several times now?

This is straight from The State of Arizona government website second time I post this you going to stop ignoring it?

"The Secretary of State serves as the chief election officer in the state of Arizona, which includes oversight of campaign finance for statewide and legislative candidates, verifying initiatives and referenda for the ballot, and certifying the official results of each election. A statewide or legislative election is scheduled for every even-numbered year unless a special election is required."

You haven't countered anything I posted with hard evidence just a lot of babble and the 6 states did CERTIFIY the election via their Secretary of State already posted 3 links showing three of the states doing it which YOU ignored.

Repeatedly showed that Pence has ZERO constitutional power to challenge Certified documents.

Stop making a fool of yourself!
again,


The plain language of the so-called Electors Clause of the Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Clause 2, establishes this authority by providing: “Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress.”
 

BackAgain

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This will be a very unpopular thread with Conservatives, and I am a Conservative, so let me apologize in advance for probably pissing you off.

Why was DJT so popular with all of us? Because, even as a billionaire, he was one of us, spoke like we did, said things nobody ever said as a politician running for higher government, he was the closest to a regular person we ever had because he had few handlers that could filter him. When he pontificated correct or incorrect in his assertions, you knew he was not saying it for political purposes, it was actually what he thought. His actions while in office proved that he was not saying things just to get elected then backtracking, he actually meant what he said.

Why did Washington hate him, and oh yes they did!? He jumped everyone to be elected to the highest office in the land. He did not go through the system being elected 1st to lesser offices where donors could get their hooks into him. He consistently reiterated that he wanted a law where retiring congress people could not become lobbyists for a certain amount of time, and that is a no-no. His wall was so against what the elite wanted, they just couldn't stand it, but many Republicans in office could not voice their displeasure at it for fear of Trumps wrath. All on one side, and some on the other HAD to get rid of him. Their donor/lobbying people despised this man.

So to quickly finish up this segment, Russia-Russia-Russia, impeachment 1, Impeachment 2, all so laughable and proven false, look at how many votes he got for his projected 2nd term; and virtually ALL of them showed at the polls to insure their vote got cast and counted. I know I did, and I am sure most of you Conservatives did too. Trump hated? No! And trust me, that galls your people in Congress, even many on our side I might add.

Many people will roll their eyes at this assertion but with the amount of real time, in person votes he received on election day it is plain as the nose on your face; Trump, the bombastic billionaire, became a sympathetic figure to millions upon millions of people because of what Washington tried to do to him while he was in office!

And then, something happened. You believe I am going to say the election. Wrong! It is what Trump said and tried to do BECAUSE of the election. Enter the......as of today............ruination of DJT known as "the steal!" Democrats had orgasms over that one, along with never Trumpers, and still are. It changed the whole narrative from those who seen Trump as a sympathetic figure who are not GOP, to one of questionable character. Why? Because those who are NOT GOP who believed all of his assertions for 4 years, heard him say with such conviction that 2020 was stolen, they believed him. They believed him not because he thought it, they believed him because they knew in their heart of hearts he would deliver the evidence, and the Left would be swept off the political landscape of the United States for their transgressions. So they waited, waited, and waited more, and the whole time, Trump keeps repeating, the steal, the steal.

Now we consistently hear on this board and in the media, that judges are against him; that is the reason Trump can't get anywhere. As I said in another thread-------> what is one of the things Trump constantly touts at all of his rally's? He put 200, 300, or was it 400 of his CONSERVATIVE judges on the bench because Obama left many slots open for Hillary. To suggest Trump can not find one Federal jurisdiction to hear his evidence after that is patently laughable.

So how easy would it be for Trump to change his demise into a crowning glory come 2024? Does he actually have to prove the election was stolen? NOPE! All he has to prove is that one state was stolen that Biden won, and it changes the whole narrative. You pick the state----> AZ? Georgia? Penn? Any other state? Can I have a Wisconsin? All he needs is one, just one, even if it did not move him to electoral victory, because the whole country's narrative would shift from, no way.........to......they did it, and now we see how, plus they cheated to boot. We are waiting, but time is getting short. He has to about December, that is it.

I urge you to understand, that if Trump can NOT prove it, he will not get anywhere near the amount of votes he received in 2020. To non GOPers, he and his supporters sound unhinged. How can you insist something happened that forced you to almost use a coup (the Lefts words, not mine) to fix it, and yet, you can't prove it happened? Each and every time I read some facts on this board how Biden is screwing up everything, when the Left doesn't want to address it they bring up THE STEAL and giggle as the OP goes off the deep end all about how it was stolen, and yet can't produce any evidence that even a CONSERVATIVE court will address. The STEAL is a word like Racist, homophobe, mysogynist that the Left uses, and the STEAL works better than all the rest. It is unfathomable to me personally, how we CONSERVATIVES claim that we make decisions on facts and data, while the Left makes decisions on feelings along with faulty thought processes, and here we are with a total role reversal, led by GOPers.

In closing, let me ask all of you to consider a WHAT IF scenario------> WHAT IF Pence would have done what Trump asked him to do if possible? WHAT IF the GOP supported the process and the election would have been thrown out and Trump continued on? WHAT IF all of that happened, and the evidence we have in real time now was still the evidence we had with the WHAT IF scenario?

I will tell you WHAT IF THAT REALLY HAPPENED! Come November, the Democrats would be elected to a veto proof majority in the House and senate because America would be PISSED! Trumps hands would have been tied for the 1st 2 years because the Democrats would STILL be in control of the House, and no legislation would have ever gotten through Pelosi. By the 2nd 2 years, the Democratic veto proof congress would be running the country, and Trump couldn't stop anything, he would just be a figurehead, until he was IMPEACHED, and it would pass this time. Because Pence did it, he would then be impeached afterwards, and you would have a President Nancy Pelosi. Come 2024, the GOP would totally be wiped out for at least 4 to 6 years, and by that time, you probably wouldn't have much of a country left to save.

So, going forward, be careful what you wish WOULD HAVE happened. Oh sure, we can wish that Trump won. Yes, we can pray that something, anything was stolen, and Trump can prove it satisfactorily to the American public along with the courts. Be thankful that in 2022 you have the Left by the gonads, vote and kick them to the curb ASAP. But do not think that Pence and the GOP let you down by not backing Trump on that fateful day. Had they done that, for a very short term gain, we would have taken a long, long, looooooong term hosing.

As Winston Churchill once said, (at least he was credited with it, nobody knows if that is fact) America will do the wrong thing many times, but eventually they will get it right! Well Conservatives, lets get it RIGHT!
I never heard of a “self-inflicted rise” before.
 

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