The SAVE Act

[Avorysuds]

My 4-point plan, with all aspects to run concurrently:

1. Secure the border. This includes giving the Border Patrol rules of engagement that allows them to actually secure the border instead of acting like crossing guards.
2. Harshly punish employers who knowingly hire illegals.
3. Deport illegals when found.
4. Require proof of legal presence before someone may wire money out of the country, with harsh penalties for those wire agents who knowingly wire money for illegals.

I believe the last will have a serious impact. It will also cause howls of outrage from Mexico, because they depend on money sent from illegals to prop up their failing economy. Screw 'em.

I agree, as long as you don't mean a fence.

 

[P F Tinmore]

We don't need another excuse for more police state.

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0c5qEZuqHo]YouTube - ‪Cynthia McKinney - Restore Our Constitutional Rights‬‏[/ame]

 

[brokenarrow]

No one has a constitutional right to be a terrorist or a criminal.

But they do have the Constitutional right to due process if accused accordingly.

They get due process. That is what they object to.

 

[brokenarrow]

YouTube - ‪Cynthia McKinney - Restore Our Constitutional Rights‬‏

It's called anarchy.

 

[daveman]

The issue is that you cannot look at someone and tell whether he is an illegal or legal. Ergo the law must intrude on legal citizens as well as illegals to make the distinction.

Deporting people won't work. There was a group of Nigerians that had been deported for the 3rd time. And Nigeria is not exactly next door.
We will bankrupt ourselves trying to put plugs in the dike of illegal immigration.
The Law Enforcement approach simply has failed. We have had 30 years of trying with no success.

That's because bleeding hearts never let us work seriously at it.

Can you name these "bleeding hearts" that are preventing all this?

Most of the American Left. That's because they care more about political power than America, and don't want to offend a voting bloc -- Hispanics -- and want to garner support among another potential voting bloc -- illegals.

 

[daveman]

My 4-point plan, with all aspects to run concurrently:

1. Secure the border. This includes giving the Border Patrol rules of engagement that allows them to actually secure the border instead of acting like crossing guards.
2. Harshly punish employers who knowingly hire illegals.
3. Deport illegals when found.
4. Require proof of legal presence before someone may wire money out of the country, with harsh penalties for those wire agents who knowingly wire money for illegals.

I believe the last will have a serious impact. It will also cause howls of outrage from Mexico, because they depend on money sent from illegals to prop up their failing economy. Screw 'em.

I agree, as long as you don't mean a fence.

Why not? A passive defense is cheaper than an active one.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Then we're simply not serious about fixing the problem.

We can be serious about fixing the problem, provided it’s done legally.

And no, Mr. President, amnesty is not a fix.

GWB’s proposal was pragmatic and workable.

Those who rejected that proposal were themselves not serious about reform.

 

[daveman]

Then we're simply not serious about fixing the problem.

We can be serious about fixing the problem, provided it’s done legally.

And no, Mr. President, amnesty is not a fix.

GWB’s proposal was pragmatic and workable.

Those who rejected that proposal were themselves not serious about reform.

Rewarding criminals is not a good thing.

 

[The Rabbi]

That's because bleeding hearts never let us work seriously at it.

Can you name these "bleeding hearts" that are preventing all this?

Most of the American Left. That's because they care more about political power than America, and don't want to offend a voting bloc -- Hispanics -- and want to garner support among another potential voting bloc -- illegals.

SO what has the "American Left" blocked that would be effective? Keep in mind that shooting people at the border is illegal.

Really, the whole "law n order" crowd on illegal immigration is just whining. We have spent huge amounts on enforcing immigraiton laws and the mess is worse now than ever. We cannot turn the US into a police state, which is what it would take, with universal biometric ID for everyone.
Instead we need to look at what causes people to want to move here and address those issues.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Can you name these "bleeding hearts" that are preventing all this?

Most of the American Left. That's because they care more about political power than America, and don't want to offend a voting bloc -- Hispanics -- and want to garner support among another potential voting bloc -- illegals.

SO what has the "American Left" blocked that would be effective? Keep in mind that shooting people at the border is illegal.

Really, the whole "law n order" crowd on illegal immigration is just whining. We have spent huge amounts on enforcing immigraiton laws and the mess is worse now than ever. We cannot turn the US into a police state, which is what it would take, with universal biometric ID for everyone.
Instead we need to look at what causes people to want to move here and address those issues.

Instead we need to look at what causes people to want to move here and address those issues.

That is what I have been saying for years.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbOhSzj0IK8]YouTube - ‪Cynthia McKinney on Mexico-NAFTA, Plan Mexico, Human Rights‬‏[/ame]

 

[daveman]

Can you name these "bleeding hearts" that are preventing all this?

Most of the American Left. That's because they care more about political power than America, and don't want to offend a voting bloc -- Hispanics -- and want to garner support among another potential voting bloc -- illegals.

SO what has the "American Left" blocked that would be effective? Keep in mind that shooting people at the border is illegal.

Really, the whole "law n order" crowd on illegal immigration is just whining. We have spent huge amounts on enforcing immigraiton laws and the mess is worse now than ever. We cannot turn the US into a police state, which is what it would take, with universal biometric ID for everyone.
Instead we need to look at what causes people to want to move here and address those issues.

Ever hear of sanctuary cities? They ain't run by conservatives, Skippy. They're telling illegals they won't enforce the law.

Liberals are rewarding criminals. Same as it ever was.

 

[brokenarrow]

My 4-point plan, with all aspects to run concurrently:

1. Secure the border. This includes giving the Border Patrol rules of engagement that allows them to actually secure the border instead of acting like crossing guards.
2. Harshly punish employers who knowingly hire illegals.
3. Deport illegals when found.
4. Require proof of legal presence before someone may wire money out of the country, with harsh penalties for those wire agents who knowingly wire money for illegals.

I believe the last will have a serious impact. It will also cause howls of outrage from Mexico, because they depend on money sent from illegals to prop up their failing economy. Screw 'em.

I agree, as long as you don't mean a fence.

Why not? A passive defense is cheaper than an active one.

Fences don't work. Counterattack does!

 

[brokenarrow]

[That is what I have been saying for years.

YouTube - ‪Cynthia McKinney on Mexico-NAFTA, Plan Mexico, Human Rights‬‏

Only Mexico is poor?
Lies......Over 125 countries around the world are poorer than Mexico.


The United States brings poverty to Mexico?
Lies....Mexico has quadrupled its population in the last 55 years. They are poor because they breed like rats.


The United States exploits Mexico?
Lies....Mexico kicked out American businesses years ago and nationalized its oil. Remember "Yankee Go Home?"


Mexico and LA RAZA are the greatest exporter of lies to the American people surpassing anything done by Communists and other evil organizations.

 

[dblack]

The first step is to develop reasonable policies for legitimate foreign workers. Anywhere you have a border with the kind of wealth disparity that exists between the US and Mexico, you're going to have a massive draw for the eager labor on one side to meet up with the paying customers on the other.

I had a fascinating experience at the Alamo a couple of years ago. The tour guide gave a brief history of the region and the situations that led to the famous battle there. He explained how, after Mexico won its independence from Spain, it was eager to advance itself and develop the wilderness of the region that was to become Texas. They began an aggressive campaign to lure settlers to the region. They offered grants of cash and property to anyone willing to develop the land. The offers were extended to anyone willing to work, regardless of nationality.

Shortly thereafter, however, a conservative backlash in Mexico City marked a radical reversal of that policy, and the offers halted. In some cases they were reversed. It seems the conservatives were worried about all the foreigners (mostly US Americans) 'invading' their land and watering down the Latin-American/Spanish culture. They closed the borders and did their best to keep people out.

But, as the tour guide pointed out, when there is a wealth of opportunity on one side of a border, and eager people yearning for that opportunity on the other, there's very little hope of keeping them out. And they couldn't. In the end, their draconian efforts to do that backfired on them, and they lost Texas.

The point is, pretending we can keep hungry people away from the work that will feed them is delusional. And I see no reason why we should.

The best way to keep the dangerous elements from crossing the border is to make sure that the vast bulk of immigrants who aren't dangerous can cross safely. When the legal channels are easier than hiking through the desert, legitimate immigrants and guest workers will gladly use them rather than supporting the pipeline of illegal immigration. Then we can focus on the remaining "illegals" vigorously, when their number will be reduced and we can be sure they are up to no good. As it is, we're treating all of them as a threat and we can't possibly deal with the volume.

 

[brokenarrow]

The first step is to develop reasonable policies for legitimate foreign workers. Anywhere you have a border with the kind of wealth disparity that exists between the US and Mexico, you're going to have a massive draw for the eager labor on one side to meet up with the paying customers on the other.

I had a fascinating experience at the Alamo a couple of years ago. The tour guide gave a brief history of the region and the situations that led to the famous battle there. He explained how, after Mexico won its independence from Spain, it was eager to advance itself and develop the wilderness of the region that was to become Texas. They began an aggressive campaign to lure settlers to the region. They offered grants of cash and property to anyone willing to develop the land. The offers were extended to anyone willing to work, regardless of nationality.

Shortly thereafter, however, a conservative backlash in Mexico City marked a radical reversal of that policy, and the offers halted. In some cases they were reversed. It seems the conservatives were worried about all the foreigners (mostly US Americans) 'invading' their land and watering down the Latin-American/Spanish culture. They closed the borders and did their best to keep people out.

But, as the tour guide pointed out, when there is a wealth of opportunity on one side of a border, and eager people yearning for that opportunity on the other, there's very little hope of keeping them out. And they couldn't. In the end, their draconian efforts to do that backfired on them, and they lost Texas.

The point is, pretending we can keep hungry people away from the work that will feed them is delusional. And I see no reason why we should.

The best way to keep the dangerous elements from crossing the border is to make sure that the vast bulk of immigrants who aren't dangerous can cross safely. When the legal channels are easier than hiking through the desert, legitimate immigrants and guest workers will gladly use them rather than supporting the pipeline of illegal immigration. Then we can focus on the remaining "illegals" vigorously, when their number will be reduced and we can be sure they are up to no good. As it is, we're treating all of them as a threat and we can't possibly deal with the volume.

You missed an important point. Most of those settlers had lost everything they had in the depression years earlier. But Texas was not wealthy and neither was Mexico which doesn't prove the point of a rich country next to a poor.

Mexicans and other invaders are coming across "to get even". This was established by the BBC as they road the trains with "migrants". These people HATE Americans. They want to destroy the American way of life and make this country part of Latin America.

War is the only answer and soon!

 

[The Rabbi]

Most of the American Left. That's because they care more about political power than America, and don't want to offend a voting bloc -- Hispanics -- and want to garner support among another potential voting bloc -- illegals.

SO what has the "American Left" blocked that would be effective? Keep in mind that shooting people at the border is illegal.

Really, the whole "law n order" crowd on illegal immigration is just whining. We have spent huge amounts on enforcing immigraiton laws and the mess is worse now than ever. We cannot turn the US into a police state, which is what it would take, with universal biometric ID for everyone.
Instead we need to look at what causes people to want to move here and address those issues.

Ever hear of sanctuary cities? They ain't run by conservatives, Skippy. They're telling illegals they won't enforce the law.

Liberals are rewarding criminals. Same as it ever was.

Sanctuary cities? You're kidding, right? The existence of "sanctuary cities" is the reason we ahve an illegal immigration problem??
Is that what passes for thought in the anti immigrant circles?
Come on. You're smarter than that.

 

[The Rabbi]

The first step is to develop reasonable policies for legitimate foreign workers. Anywhere you have a border with the kind of wealth disparity that exists between the US and Mexico, you're going to have a massive draw for the eager labor on one side to meet up with the paying customers on the other.

I had a fascinating experience at the Alamo a couple of years ago. The tour guide gave a brief history of the region and the situations that led to the famous battle there. He explained how, after Mexico won its independence from Spain, it was eager to advance itself and develop the wilderness of the region that was to become Texas. They began an aggressive campaign to lure settlers to the region. They offered grants of cash and property to anyone willing to develop the land. The offers were extended to anyone willing to work, regardless of nationality.

Shortly thereafter, however, a conservative backlash in Mexico City marked a radical reversal of that policy, and the offers halted. In some cases they were reversed. It seems the conservatives were worried about all the foreigners (mostly US Americans) 'invading' their land and watering down the Latin-American/Spanish culture. They closed the borders and did their best to keep people out.

But, as the tour guide pointed out, when there is a wealth of opportunity on one side of a border, and eager people yearning for that opportunity on the other, there's very little hope of keeping them out. And they couldn't. In the end, their draconian efforts to do that backfired on them, and they lost Texas.

The point is, pretending we can keep hungry people away from the work that will feed them is delusional. And I see no reason why we should.

The best way to keep the dangerous elements from crossing the border is to make sure that the vast bulk of immigrants who aren't dangerous can cross safely. When the legal channels are easier than hiking through the desert, legitimate immigrants and guest workers will gladly use them rather than supporting the pipeline of illegal immigration. Then we can focus on the remaining "illegals" vigorously, when their number will be reduced and we can be sure they are up to no good. As it is, we're treating all of them as a threat and we can't possibly deal with the volume.

You missed an important point. Most of those settlers had lost everything they had in the depression years earlier. But Texas was not wealthy and neither was Mexico which doesn't prove the point of a rich country next to a poor.

Mexicans and other invaders are coming across "to get even". This was established by the BBC as they road the trains with "migrants". These people HATE Americans. They want to destroy the American way of life and make this country part of Latin America.

War is the only answer and soon!

You're an idiot.

 

[daveman]

SO what has the "American Left" blocked that would be effective? Keep in mind that shooting people at the border is illegal.

Really, the whole "law n order" crowd on illegal immigration is just whining. We have spent huge amounts on enforcing immigraiton laws and the mess is worse now than ever. We cannot turn the US into a police state, which is what it would take, with universal biometric ID for everyone.
Instead we need to look at what causes people to want to move here and address those issues.

Ever hear of sanctuary cities? They ain't run by conservatives, Skippy. They're telling illegals they won't enforce the law.

Liberals are rewarding criminals. Same as it ever was.

Sanctuary cities? You're kidding, right? The existence of "sanctuary cities" is the reason we ahve an illegal immigration problem??
Is that what passes for thought in the anti immigrant circles?
Come on. You're smarter than that.

You asked for what the left is doing to block solutions.

They're refusing to cooperate with Federal law. And that rewards criminals.

 

[The Rabbi]

Ever hear of sanctuary cities? They ain't run by conservatives, Skippy. They're telling illegals they won't enforce the law.

Liberals are rewarding criminals. Same as it ever was.

Sanctuary cities? You're kidding, right? The existence of "sanctuary cities" is the reason we ahve an illegal immigration problem??
Is that what passes for thought in the anti immigrant circles?
Come on. You're smarter than that.

You asked for what the left is doing to block solutions.

They're refusing to cooperate with Federal law. And that rewards criminals.

That isn't blocking solutions. That is a very localized phenonmenon. You'll have to try harder to be credible on this issue.

The truth is that despite massive amounts spent and draconian laws we have made very little difference in illegal immigration. This is because the problem is just not susceptible to law enforcement but demands a look at the root issue.
That root issue is abundance of jobs for low skill low pay workers on the one hand and a very willing and mobile labor pool on the other.
You can either legalize the free movement of labor (a conservative idea btw) or stimulate demand for labor in their home country.
Shooting people just isn't an option here.