Zone1 The sad truth is almost 99 % humans go to Hell

[FA_Q2]

Are you saying that any individual who does not wish to love and serve God should be forced into heaven to love and serve Him anyway? For an eternity?

Perhaps he could just not create beings that are fundamentally flawed so that he has to send them to an eternal damnation.

The perfect, all loving and all knowing god could easily pull that one off. And I would bet that it would not even need to kill all of its creations in a massive flood to make it happen...

 

[Meriweather]

Perhaps he could just not create beings that are fundamentally flawed so that he has to send them to an eternal damnation.

First, we are not fundamentally flawed. Second, we are assured our sins are forgiven.

Jesus' words: Depart into the eternal fire prepared for the accuser and his angels. Jesus speaks of an eternal fire, not eternal damnation. On other occasions, Jesus also spoke of fire being used for purification. Fire is known for being painful, and it is also known for its purifying properties. (Gold tempered in fire.)

In Biblical times, Jews held no belief in hell, but there was a belief of a time of purification, not to exceed one year following death which coincides with the family's observance of Yahrzeit (one year observance of the passing). This belief of purification was carried forward by Apostolic tradition into the Catholic Church, but became known as Purgatory (from the root "purging".

Catholic teaching is that we don't know who, if anyone, is in "hell." Further, hell is described as a permanent separation from God, chosen by the individual, not by God.

It seems people forget that Dante's Inferno is not Biblical, yet this is where so many get their images of hell.

 

[Meriweather]

The perfect, all loving and all knowing god could easily pull that one off. And I would bet that it would not even need to kill all of its creations in a massive flood to make it happen...

Your perspective of Noah's flood is not the perspective of the original author or his original audience. The Hebrew to modern English does not translate well.

 

[FA_Q2]

Your perspective of Noah's flood is not the perspective of the original author or his original audience. The Hebrew to modern English does not translate well.

Then give me the correct perspective that justifies killing all life on the planet save a few people and 2 (or 7) pairs of everything else.

 

[Meriweather]

Then give me the correct perspective that justifies killing all life on the planet save a few people and 2 (or 7) pairs of everything else.

Let's set the stage. I will attempt to show you how alike we are to our ancestors who lived in Biblical times.

Do you understand that many today believe that human behavior is causing climate change and therefore responsible for powerful storms?

Our ancestors believed the same.

 

[FA_Q2]

First, we are not fundamentally flawed. Second, we are assured our sins are forgiven.

Jesus' words: Depart into the eternal fire prepared for the accuser and his angels. Jesus speaks of an eternal fire, not eternal damnation. On other occasions, Jesus also spoke of fire being used for purification. Fire is known for being painful, and it is also known for its purifying properties. (Gold tempered in fire.)

In Biblical times, Jews held no belief in hell, but there was a belief of a time of purification, not to exceed one year following death which coincides with the family's observance of Yahrzeit (one year observance of the passing). This belief of purification was carried forward by Apostolic tradition into the Catholic Church, but became known as Purgatory (from the root "purging".

Catholic teaching is that we don't know who, if anyone, is in "hell." Further, hell is described as a permanent separation from God, chosen by the individual, not by God.

It seems people forget that Dante's Inferno is not Biblical, yet this is where so many get their images of hell.

Then you are in direct contention with what the VAST majority of Christian theology at all levels states.

And you left out the details of purgatory:

purgatory | Definition & History

purgatory, the condition, process, or place of purification or temporary punishment in which, according to medieval Christian and Roman Catholic belief, the souls of those who die in a state of grace are made ready for heaven. Purgatory (Latin: purgatorium; from purgare, “to purge”) has come to...

www.britannica.com

It only applies to those souls that die 'in a state of grace.'

This does not address the idea that there is eternal punishment for temporal crimes and that eternal punishment's will apply to the majority of all people.

Let's set the stage. I will attempt to show you how alike we are to our ancestors who lived in Biblical times.

Do you understand that many today believe that human behavior is causing climate change and therefore responsible for powerful storms?

Our ancestors believed the same.

And?

You said nothing that has to do with the topic or anything I have posted.

 

[FA_Q2]

First, we are not fundamentally flawed.

We are not fundamentally flawed.

We are all sinners.

Those 2 statements are in direct contention. They both cannot be true.

 

[Bezukhov]

What I want to know is why a Hell? Does seeing people burning forever get Him aroused? Excited? Randy?

 

[Meriweather]

We are not fundamentally flawed.

We are all sinners.

Those 2 statements are in direct contention. They both cannot be true.

Jesus said that we are the salt of the earth. He also noted those who are blessed:

• Those who trust in God and His ways
• Those in sorrow
• The humble
• Those who seek to become better
• The merciful
• Those who are single hearted in their search for God and His ways
• Peacemakers
• The persecuted
• Those who have faith
• Those who care for other when they are hungry or thirsty
• The ones who take care of the sick
• The ones visiting those in prison or the home-bound
• Those who contribute clothes and shelter to the ones in need
• The ones who listen to the Word of God

Going back to flawed individuals: We are promised sins are forgiven. There is also the promise that in heaven there are many mansions, there is a place for us. Jesus also noted that the Kingdom of Heaven is searching for good people and will give all to draw those people to heaven.

While Paul noted all have sinned, he also noted that instead of following the way of sin, we can follow the way Jesus taught.

Given all this, I dispute that 99% of mankind is bound for hell. In fact, it seems one must be terribly determined to end up permanently separated from God.

 

[Meriweather]

It only applies to those souls that die 'in a state of grace.'

The soul lives in a state of grace--Grace that Church labels sanctifying grace.

One is either in a state of grace or a state of evil. Compare to a place that is dark versus a place that has light. If there is any light, there is not complete darkness. If there is any grace, there is not complete evil. Here is where the Catholic belief of purgatory comes into play. If there is grace/light in the soul, then it is not a soul of darkness. The kingdom of heaven searches out that goodness/grace.

Catholics also observe 'actual grace'; an outward grace that gives us that assist during difficult times so that we can choose the more perfect act over the less perfect.

 

[FA_Q2]

Jesus said that we are the salt of the earth. He also noted those who are blessed:

• Those who trust in God and His ways
• Those in sorrow
• The humble
• Those who seek to become better
• The merciful
• Those who are single hearted in their search for God and His ways
• Peacemakers
• The persecuted
• Those who have faith
• Those who care for other when they are hungry or thirsty
• The ones who take care of the sick
• The ones visiting those in prison or the home-bound
• Those who contribute clothes and shelter to the ones in need
• The ones who listen to the Word of God

Going back to flawed individuals: We are promised sins are forgiven. There is also the promise that in heaven there are many mansions, there is a place for us. Jesus also noted that the Kingdom of Heaven is searching for good people and will give all to draw those people to heaven.

While Paul noted all have sinned, he also noted that instead of following the way of sin, we can follow the way Jesus taught.

Given all this, I dispute that 99% of mankind is bound for hell. In fact, it seems one must be terribly determined to end up permanently separated from God.

So those that believe in Buddhism and Islam are going to heaven?

After being purified that is.

 

[Meriweather]

You said nothing that has to do with the topic or anything I have posted.

We are in dispute over the topic since I disagree most will spend an eternity separated from God. Is everyone expected to agree with you?

 

[FA_Q2]

We are in dispute over the topic since I disagree most will spend an eternity separated from God. Is everyone expected to agree with you?

Was agreement being necessary anywhere in that post? Were you talking about how many go to hell and how many do not in the quoted post?

So again, here is another post that has nothing to do with my statements. When I quote a post I am responding to THAT post. And that particular post could not be answered because the statements made within it were not connected with the post it quoted in any way that can be construed to be a part of the conversation.

IOW, you needed to actually finish the thought. You 'set the stage' but then left it empty.

 

[Meriweather]

And?

Our Biblical ancestors held the deep belief that God is perfect love. God is perfect goodness. God administers perfect justice. God created a good world. God is the ideal.

They held the belief that when evil ways encroach on goodness, just like gravity reacts, goodness reacts to push back on evil. Read the story. It begins with stating that humans were behaving badly. If you look closely, you can even determine their own assessment of their worst offense.

Your "And?" is that it appears we are doing the same today, only it seems some have a view of the "Perfect Climate". It is not the "Perfect Climate" that is at fault for changing, they see imperfect humans are the cause of Climate Change--and even that this Perfect Climate is fighting back against the evils humans are committing.

Unless you are wailing that the deaths caused by the recent storm in Kentucky is the fault of a truly villainous Climate, not at all the fault of any human, there is no reason to accuse God of villainy over deaths caused by the Great Flood. In each cases both have stated the reason for the disaster is that the behavior of humanity was/is at fault.

That should cover your "And?"

 

[Meriweather]

What I want to know is why a Hell? Does seeing people burning forever get Him aroused?

Then you believe in the fictional Dante's Inferno version of hell? Admittedly, painting a picture of fire is much easier than painting a picture of separation.

 

[Meriweather]

So those that believe in Buddhism and Islam are going to heaven?

After being purified that is.

The Buddhist idea of purification is reincarnation into this life until that perfection is achieved. I don't know the formal Muslim teaching.

But yes. Scripture teaches that only God has the final judgment of the human soul. God knows those who prefer His ways to those who do not and also want nothing to do with Him or His ways. God's judgment is perfect, which means we will be in agreement with His assessment of the true state of our being.

So yes, I believe that all of God's people will be in heaven, so I will see you your Buddhist and Muslim and raise you an atheist.

 

[FA_Q2]

The Buddhist idea of purification is reincarnation into this life until that perfection is achieved. I don't know the formal Muslim teaching.

But yes. Scripture teaches that only God has the final judgment of the human soul. God knows those who prefer His ways to those who do not and also want nothing to do with Him or His ways. God's judgment is perfect, which means we will be in agreement with His assessment of the true state of our being.

So yes, I believe that all of God's people will be in heaven, so I will see you your Buddhist and Muslim and raise you an atheist.

Well then, my previous comments, all of them really, do not apply to your theology then as your faith is not something that I have enough information on. I do not recognize it as being close to anyone I have met before either.

 

[Meriweather]

Well then, my previous comments, all of them really, do not apply to your theology then as your faith is not something that I have enough information on. I do not recognize it as being close to anyone I have met before either.

Years of Bible Study from the Catholic perspective, but added to that is decades of Old Testament study via Rabbi commentaries down through the centuries. My Catholic Bible Study main focus was on the words of Jesus, not the words of Paul. So many Protestant denominations focus on Paul's words, "All have sinned..." Paul was focused on a particular idea which he explains. Too many stop at "all have sinned" and skip over the context of what Paul was saying.

Dante's Inferno seems to have had a great impact down through the centuries, but one of the first things they taught us in Catholic School about hell, is that Dante's Inferno was pure fiction--great fiction, but pure fiction all the same.

Perhaps when the Protestants threw out the Sacraments and Purgatory, hell was all that was left for their cornerstone.

 

[Woodznutz]

Romans 10:13-14 ESV / 265 helpful votes​

For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

​

Few on earth haven't heard the gospel message. We have entered a "famine of the word" period. The gospel well has been so poisoned that the mention of it turns people off. The widespead belief in the ToE has given many the back door that they have always wanted. End time attitudes prevail everywhere.

 

[Woodznutz]

The King James is not the most accurate one

The Douay Rheims is

The KJV was written for the descendants of Israel, and is still favored by us.