the role of The Phillipines in the South China Sea economic and military conflicts

[peacefan]

US Can't Use Philippines Bases for China Offensive, Marcos Says - Bloomberg

1. US Can't Use Philippines Bases for China Offensive, Marcos Says Bloomberg
2. Marcos says U.S. access to Philippines bases not meant for 'offensive action' Yahoo News
3. Marcos says Philippines bases could be 'useful' if Taiwan attacked Reuters
4. U.S. looks to transfer 4 patrol boats to the Philippines Naval News
5. U.S.-Philippines Agree to Modernize, Strengthen Alliance > U.S Department of Defense
6. View Full Coverage on Google News

Remote : Thu, 04 May 2023 22:30:21 GMT
Local : 2023-05-05(Friday) 00 : 30 : 21
Found via NicerApp WebOS

Marcos says Philippines bases could be 'useful' if Taiwan attacked

Philippines President Ferdinand Marcos Jr said on Thursday that granting U.S. access to Philippine military bases was a defensive step that would be "useful" if China attacked Taiwan.

www.reuters.com

...
Experts say the U.S., for its part, sees the Philippines as a potential location for weapons to counter a Chinese amphibious invasion of Taiwan, which China claims as its own territory.

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said after a meeting with Philippine officials last month it was "too early" to discuss what assets the United States would like to station at Philippine bases.

Speaking earlier on Thursday to a U.S. think thank, Marcos said he told China's foreign minister that the EDCA sites were not intended for "offensive action". He also said Washington had not asked the Philippines to provide troops if there were a war over Taiwan.
...

Marcos said the Philippines had "made a good start" in talks with China about contentious fishing rights.

"I explained to President Xi that last year was the first year in the entire history of the Philippines where we had to import fish, which is a ridiculous situation for a country that consists of 7,100-plus islands," he said.

"I told President Xi ... perhaps we can take the little step of allowing, once again, our fishermen to ply their trade," he added.

Marcos also said his country and China needed to resolve disputes over oil and gas exploration as quickly as possible.

i predict that China's attitude towards The Phillipines, Indonesia and Vietnam will be of paramount importance in deciding the outcome of all of the South China Sea conflicts.
if they treat them as equals, they'll reap peaceful benefits.
if they want to subjugate them, they'll drive them straight into the hands of NATO + AUKUS + EU, and that will be China's downfall.

we can afford to wait for the Chinese invasion of Taiwan, all we need to do is prep the area with asymetrical warfare tools and train the locals on how to use those.

 

[ralfy]

China is the major trading partner of many of these countries, including the U.S. Even Australia and New Zealand have China as a major trading partner.

The country with the most installations in the sea against the Philippines is Vietnam.

The Chinese claim to most of the sea originated from Taiwan.

Not only China, Taiwan, and Vietnam want a piece or much of the West Philippine Sea but also Malaysia and Brunei. Malaysia has become friendlier to China, with plans to use currencies other than the dollar. Meanwhile, Indonesia added that it wants to move away from U.S. financial institutions and work with BRICS, and Singapore, which buys weapons from the U.S., has been engaging in military exercises with China.

The U.S. has been bullying the Philippines for decades, through massacres of large numbers of natives as it turned some places into a "howling wilderness," to the Bell Trade Act, support for Marcos, then support for neoliberal regimes, and so on. The country voted for Duterte, who started criticizing the U.S. Some argue that Marcos is forced to work with the U.S. to continue what Duterte did, which was to continue the agreement.

Duterte finished with an 80+ approval rating, making him not only the most popular President in Philippine history but one of the most popular leaders in the region, if not among various national leaders. His stance is similar to that of most Asians, which is nationalist economic.

The U.S. has been trying to sell weapons to Vietnam, which it also attacked brutally in the past (with two million Vietnamese dead), while Vietnam is playing the realpolitik game by deal with with the U.S. and China, which also bullies it. Meanwhile, its main military ally is Russia.

The country that's been friendliest to the Philippines is Japan, which brutalized it during WW2. Meanwhile, not only China but also Taiwan and South Korea, which are U.S. allies, dislike Japan for similar reasons.

Meanwhile, Taiwan is not even recognized as a sovereign state by all of them, and only because they want to continue trading with China.

 

[whitehall]

Did the Philippines elect another Marcos while we weren't looking?

 

[ralfy]

The reference to "looking" is interesting. It's as if the Philippines has to make sure that it does what the U.S. wants it to do.

Even more interesting is the possibility that most Americans don't know that the U.S. supported the first Marcos.

 

[ActionJackson]

US Can't Use Philippines Bases for China Offensive, Marcos Says - Bloomberg

1. US Can't Use Philippines Bases for China Offensive, Marcos Says Bloomberg
2. Marcos says U.S. access to Philippines bases not meant for 'offensive action' Yahoo News
3. Marcos says Philippines bases could be 'useful' if Taiwan attacked Reuters
4. U.S. looks to transfer 4 patrol boats to the Philippines Naval News
5. U.S.-Philippines Agree to Modernize, Strengthen Alliance > U.S Department of Defense
6. View Full Coverage on Google News

Remote : Thu, 04 May 2023 22:30:21 GMT
Local : 2023-05-05(Friday) 00 : 30 : 21
Found via NicerApp WebOS

Marcos says Philippines bases could be 'useful' if Taiwan attacked

Philippines President Ferdinand Marcos Jr said on Thursday that granting U.S. access to Philippine military bases was a defensive step that would be "useful" if China attacked Taiwan.

www.reuters.com

i predict that China's attitude towards The Phillipines, Indonesia and Vietnam will be of paramount importance in deciding the outcome of all of the South China Sea conflicts.
if they treat them as equals, they'll reap peaceful benefits.
if they want to subjugate them, they'll drive them straight into the hands of NATO + AUKUS + EU, and that will be China's downfall.

we can afford to wait for the Chinese invasion of Taiwan, all we need to do is prep the area with asymetrical warfare tools and train the locals on how to use those.

The Philippines would be key to stabilization in the area, but if they're turning a blind eye and becoming neutral, then that could spell trouble.

 

[whitehall]

The reference to "looking" is interesting. It's as if the Philippines has to make sure that it does what the U.S. wants it to do.

Even more interesting is the possibility that most Americans don't know that the U.S. supported the first Marcos.

You can take the phrase "we weren't looking" anyway you want but the U.S. media made a big deal about the Marcos decadence and now they don't care. My guess is modern Filipinos aren't that well educated and the voting system might not be honest and they would elect a dog named Marcos if it was on the ballot.

 

[ralfy]

You can take the phrase "we weren't looking" anyway you want but the U.S. media made a big deal about the Marcos decadence and now they don't care. My guess is modern Filipinos aren't that well educated and the voting system might not be honest and they would elect a dog named Marcos if it was on the ballot.

The U.S. media makes a big deal of anything that the U.S. government can use against countries because the former works for the latter. That's why both worked with Pinochet, Suharto, the Shah of Iran, Saddam, and others until, for various reasons, they no longer "cared."

Filipinos aren't well-educated (half don't finish grade school) but the U.S. insisted that liberal democracy and free market capitalism is the best for them, which is why after supporting Marcos they supported Aquino. In reality, they supported both in order to retain the U.S. bases, which went away not only because they were voted out of the country, but because the U.S military anomalies (e.g., thousand-dollar toilets) and Mt. Pinatubo.

The irony is that after several decades, it turned out that Marcos was the best President they had, e.g., 6-pct ave. economic growth rate, thousands of reforms, institutions, and infrastructure still in place, and growing industrialization, all quashed becaused IMF-WB petrocyling deals went south.

This explains why they voted Duterte to power, who continued infrastructure development, economic reform, and a drug war, leading to the re-start of industrialization, praises from the likes of the ADB and ASEAN, crime rates plummeting by 50 pct across the board, and an 80+ approval rating, one of the highest among political leaders worldwide.

And now Marcos, Jr., who recently won with an overwhelming majority with Duterte's daughter, Sara, continues to receive the same approval ratings while promoting the same reforms, and leading to 6-7 eco. growth rate.

Given that, what should concern the West is that the Philippines is now following its Asian neighbors in terms of economic development, and likely playing the same game with military powers, too.

Rodrigo Duterte Plays U.S. and China Off Each Other, in Echo of Cold War (Published 2016)

The Philippine president’s strategy of balancing between the powers by threatening to change loyalties was used successfully by leaders throughout the era.

www.nytimes.com

 

[whitehall]

The role of the Philippines in the global economy and the defense of South Asia is an incredible responsibility. My guess is the election of another Marcos is just a decadent popular vote from a majority of ignorant citizens. Actually I hope I'm wrong.

 

[ralfy]

The role of the Philippines in the global economy and the defense of South Asia is an incredible responsibility. My guess is the election of another Marcos is just a decadent popular vote from a majority of ignorant citizens. Actually I hope I'm wrong.

Marcos, Sr., was supported by the U.S. in exchange for retaining the bases. Before that, the U.S. was taking advantage of the Philippines for decades through the Bell Trade Act. After Marcos was deposed, the U.S. also supported Aquino and others, and even with the bases dismantled, in order to promote neoliberalism, or free market capitalism which gives advantages to the U.S. and foreigners.

The result of that was continued low growth, an average of 1.6 pct per annum across several decades. The only bright spot was that of Marcos, Sr., which saw an increase to 6 pct until the 1979 oil shock did that in.

After around three decades of exclusive growth, where most Filipinos voted for U.S.-backed politicians who only enriched the local elite and foreign partners, the voters had it and voted for Duterte a.k.a. the "Trump of Asia." The result, given his heavy infrastructure development initiatives and economic reform, was a formidable 7-pct economic growth rate even amidst a pandemic and a war. Critics argued that it was merely part of revenge shopping, but after they voted for Marcos, Jr., who won with an overwhelming majority together with Sara Duterte, the country continues to impress with a 6+ pct growth rate, even as the U.S. and others are falling apart.

Apparently, Filipinos were ignorant voters until they realized that they were being had by the U.S. and local elite partners, and have since been answering back. Because of that, they gave Duterte an 80+ approval rating, the highest of any Filipino President and among the highest in political leaders worldwide. Some say that given that, Duterte dislikes the "Trump of Asia" phrase and instead wants to see Trump as the "Duterte of the West," and that's shown in the results.

Finally, it turns out that Duterte had actually been following Marcos, Sr., nationalist economic policies, similar to that of most Asian countries, and Junior, who has also been receiving high approval ratings, is doing the same. It looks like the Philippines wants the U.S. to see it as a partner and not as a servant.

 

[peacefan]

It looks like the Philippines wants the U.S. to see it as a partner and not as a servant.

that would be a very wise course for the US.
to do that not only in words, but also in deeds.

 

[peacefan]

The role of the Philippines in the global economy and the defense of South Asia is an incredible responsibility. My guess is the election of another Marcos is just a decadent popular vote from a majority of ignorant citizens. Actually I hope I'm wrong.

The Phillipines, from what i heard, has a majority of economically well-educated people, who let their kids play, except for 1, who is to back the income needs of their siblings as adults.
to call them ignorant is an insult, and we'd best refrain from that.
we're gonna need 'm.

 

[DudleySmith]

lol they immediately cried for American protection when the Red Chinese Navy violated their coastal waters a year or so after they tossed us out. Let the Reds have them. In my Dad's day they were a fine people, fought against the Japanese. Now they're just sniveling 'victims' with their hands out like 80% of the planet.

 

[peacefan]

lol they immediately cried for American protection when the Red Chinese Navy violated their coastal waters a year or so after they tossed us out. Let the Reds have them. In my Dad's day they were a fine people, fought against the Japanese. Now they're just sniveling 'victims' with their hands out like 80% of the planet.

well if you don't support the 'sniveling victims', you might well end up just like them.
YOU NEED YOUR ALLIES JUST AS MUCH AS THEY NEED YOU.
YOU ARE THE FREE WORLD'S ARSENAL.
and don't you forget it.

 

[whitehall]

The Phillipines, from what i heard, has a majority of economically well-educated people, who let their kids play, except for 1, who is to back the income needs of their siblings as adults.
to call them ignorant is an insult, and we'd best refrain from that.
we're gonna need 'm.

What you heard?

 

[ralfy]

lol they immediately cried for American protection when the Red Chinese Navy violated their coastal waters a year or so after they tossed us out. Let the Reds have them. In my Dad's day they were a fine people, fought against the Japanese. Now they're just sniveling 'victims' with their hands out like 80% of the planet.

They've been complaining since the late 1980s, after China and Vietnam went to war over part of the disputed area. They complained again during the 1990s, and knew that the U.S. had to act because it was directly affected: international sea routes were affected, and not just China but also Vietnam and even Malaysia were building installations to counter the U.S. blue-water Navy. And yet the U.S. did not act across three decades.

Later, Pompeo explained that they could not help because the Mutual Defense Treaty did not cover non-territories, and that any support would not be automatic because of the War Powers Act. What he didn't mention is that China's claim to most of the South China Sea actually came from Taiwan, which is an ally of the U.S. and is claiming the same from another ally of the U.S., the Philippines. Most important, the U.S. is unable to act because China is a major trading partner. That's why it can't even recognize its ally Taiwan as a sovereign state.

Finally, Filipinos never changed: survey after survey reveals that not only does the U.S. have high approval ratings in the Philippines (and that includes U.S. Presidents of either party) it has higher approval ratings in the Philippines than in the U.S. itself. In essence, Filipinos are more American than Americans themselves.

Last point: the U.S. and many other countries are becoming more reliant on the Philippines for work because of population aging. Because of the same young population, everyone from Goldman Sachs to the EIU believe that the country together with others will eventually dominant economically as industrialized nations weaken.

 

[22lcidw]

well if you don't support the 'sniveling victims', you might well end up just like them.
YOU NEED YOUR ALLIES JUST AS MUCH AS THEY NEED YOU.
YOU ARE THE FREE WORLD'S ARSENAL.
and don't you forget it.

The Philippines needs to state up to the plate. Make their choice. Under Chinese influence or American influence. This is there is going to be a Taiwan issue. Our nation has been incredibly fair to them. they need to realize a new potential top dog nation is rising to replace the United States. And must decide what kind of system they want to have a major influence on them if they help China achieve it.

 

[ralfy]

The Philippines needs to state up to the plate. Make their choice. Under Chinese influence or American influence. This is there is going to be a Taiwan issue. Our nation has been incredibly fair to them. they need to realize a new potential top dog nation is rising to replace the United States. And must decide what kind of system they want to have a major influence on them if they help China achieve it.

If it has to step up to the plate, then it should not be influenced by either, which is what other Asian countries have been doing.

Also, the U.S. was not exactly "incredibly fair" to the Philippines for reasons I gave earlier.

About Taiwan, even the U.S. does not recognize it as a sovereign state, and because it doesn't want to anger its major trading partner, China.

With the rise of Duterte, and now Marcos, Jr., it looks like the Philippines now knows what to do, which is to follow what other Asian countries have been doing and play one military power against the other, e.g., the U.S. trying to sell arms to Vietnam, which has China as a trading partner and Russia a military ally, and Singapore buying arms from the U.S. but engaged in military exercises with China.

But it's going to be difficult for the Philippines because it was abused by the U.S. for decades but remained loyal to it.

 

[whitehall]

Whatever the Philippines faces I doubt that another Marcos isa the solution to America's problems.

 

[ralfy]

I think the point is that he's a solution to the Philippines' problems.