The risk of income inequality

[dblack]

Yea...freedom is part of the equation. Freedom from Government oversight. We saw how well that worked during the financial sector meltdown

We have the most highly regulated and controlled financial sectors in the world. The problem was CAUSED by government oversight, that pushed banks to make bad loans.

Please...please stop us from making unsecured loans

We can't help ourselves

Exactly! You probably don't realize how on target you really are.

 

[MikeK]

I OPPOSE income equality. All rational people do -- or should.

Who ever asked for equality?

But when the highest earners make 200 times what the average earner makes it is time to ask...why do we continue policies that help the highest earners?

The primary policy that help the highest earners is called "freedom". It's the same freedom that allows the poorest earners, to whittle duck callers on their back porch, and end up with a TV show on A&E.

We continue the policies that help the highest earners, because it's also the best policy to help the lowest earners.

You've mistaken freedom for what in fact is license acquired via corrupted legislation.

The accumulation of excess wealth is not the result of freedom but rather the result of political corruption that bypasses or removes regulations which prevent such exploitative financial maneuvering. Go here to read about just one example: Public Citizen Climate and Energy

Most if not all of the methods employed by such sophisticated whirte-collar criminals as J.P. Morgan Chase's Jamie Dimon to accumulate mega-billion dollar fortunes were impeded by regulations put in place by honest legislators going back as far as 1933. But during the past three decades a rising number of lobbyists have succeeded at bribing our millionaire legislators to remove preventive regulations or to impede implementation of new ones.

I don't expect anyone to rely on an anonymous Internet forum contributor like me for credible information, but I urge those who are interested in knowing what happened to bring the U.S. Economy down to take advantage of the offer presented in my signature line (re: Inside Job). It is extremely educational.

 

[MikeK]

We have the most highly regulated and controlled financial sectors in the world. The problem was CAUSED by government oversight, that pushed banks to make bad loans.

Quite right.

But where regulations and administrative controls are concerned, quantity has nothing at all to do with quality. Simply stated, our legislators, most of whom have become millionaires as the result of one form of bribery or another, busy themselves enacting one useless or irrelevant regulation or law after another while ignoring those areas which require restrictive or corrective attention.

 

[Brain357]

Doesn't matter if that's what you remember at all. It's the facts. Unemployment was over 6% in 1994. That's not a matter of what you remember. It's a documented fact.

GDP growth was in the 2% range. Doesn't matter if you remember it, that's in fact what it was.

And see, when you talk about people still using welfare when they are working.... that's people taking advantage of the system.

You are assuming they are only on welfare because they need it. That's opinion, not fact.

Just like people in 1994 said the reason people were on welfare was because they need it. Except we kicked them off welfare, and suddenly they got jobs. Apparently they didn't need it. They wanted it. And what was the minimum wage then?

Same thing going on today. The people working and still on welfare, don't really 'need' it. They 'want' it. If you cancel food stamps and welfare today, they'll simply work and earn a living for what they want, just like they did in 1995, for $4.25 an hour.

No one died, there was no crisis. People just got jobs, and back when the minimum wage was lower... and can't find a single article about the mass starvation and death from the cutting of welfare and food stamps.

Didn't welfare reform go down in 1996?

Yes, my mistake. People were kicked off welfare in 1996. I keep tying it to the budget battle of 1995. Welfare reform was an aspect of the budget battle, because it was one of the things Republicans wanted to cut..... to balance the budget.

But yes. It was 1996, and it worked.

And it looks like it was signed into law late in 1996, August.
So GDP growth in 1996: 3.8%
GDP growth now: around 2%
Unemployment rate 1996: 5.4%
Unemployment rate now: 6.7%
U.S. GDP by Year

In 1996 we were in the .com boom. Now we are in a stagnant economy.

Sorry but 1996 and now don't look at all alike. Cut welfare now and you'll just slow the economy more. And when the liberals come out to vote it will be back with higher taxes.

 

[dr.d]

But it's not the government job to create jobs. That's what business do if allowed by government overreach

-Geaux

Actually, yes...the government can and does create jobs

But that is not what we are talking about. We have slashed taxes, deregulated business, suppressed labor all in the name of supply side economics

The trickel down never occurred. The wealthy kept their wealth and ensured that working Anericans knew their place

Yeah, but only way the government can create a job, is by destroying another job, and more.

Every single dollar that a government employee makes, means that a dollar plus more, must be stolen from someone else. Thus every job created, results in multiple jobs destroyed.

Second, trickle down is how everything occurs. Everything in our nation, only happens by trickle down. In fact, throughout the entire world, trickle down is how everything happens.

Name one job.... ONE JOB, that would exist without trickle down? Where did that auto mechanic get the tools... the parts... or even the customer with a car to be worked on? Everything was made by a rich guy somewhere, and that wealth tickled down to the auto mechanic.

U foolish man...was our independence as a nation gained thru "trickle down"?
Could the CEO of any company get rich from his company's products...without the skill and work of those who make them? Would any skilled worker know how to read, write, count or anything worth anything without the lowest paid professionals in our nation...TEACHERS?
"Trickle Down" theory is wishful thinking by those on the bottom...and a "bend over" invite by those on top...who profit from the fruits of labor...but only "trickle" any of that profit down to the folks who produce those fruits when it suits them ...and then only enough to feed their hopper.
WAKE UP


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[The T]

Actually, yes...the government can and does create jobs

But that is not what we are talking about. We have slashed taxes, deregulated business, suppressed labor all in the name of supply side economics

The trickel down never occurred. The wealthy kept their wealth and ensured that working Anericans knew their place

Yeah, but only way the government can create a job, is by destroying another job, and more.

Every single dollar that a government employee makes, means that a dollar plus more, must be stolen from someone else. Thus every job created, results in multiple jobs destroyed.

Second, trickle down is how everything occurs. Everything in our nation, only happens by trickle down. In fact, throughout the entire world, trickle down is how everything happens.

Name one job.... ONE JOB, that would exist without trickle down? Where did that auto mechanic get the tools... the parts... or even the customer with a car to be worked on? Everything was made by a rich guy somewhere, and that wealth tickled down to the auto mechanic.

U foolish man...was our independence as a nation gained thru "trickle down"?
Could the CEO of any company get rich from his company's products...without the skill and work of those who make them? Would any skilled worker know how to read, write, count or anything worth anything without the lowest paid professionals in our nation...TEACHERS?
"Trickle Down" theory is wishful thinking by those on the bottom...and a "bend over" invite by those on top...who profit from the fruits of labor...but only "trickle" any of that profit down to the folks who produce those fruits when it suits them ...and then only enough to feed their hopper.
WAKE UP


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Excuse me DUMBASS? This Nation was founded on FREE MARKET principles...you know CAPITALISM? What do YOU EXPECT to happen? Hmm?

 

[Brain357]

Yeah, but only way the government can create a job, is by destroying another job, and more.

Every single dollar that a government employee makes, means that a dollar plus more, must be stolen from someone else. Thus every job created, results in multiple jobs destroyed.

Second, trickle down is how everything occurs. Everything in our nation, only happens by trickle down. In fact, throughout the entire world, trickle down is how everything happens.

Name one job.... ONE JOB, that would exist without trickle down? Where did that auto mechanic get the tools... the parts... or even the customer with a car to be worked on? Everything was made by a rich guy somewhere, and that wealth tickled down to the auto mechanic.

U foolish man...was our independence as a nation gained thru "trickle down"?
Could the CEO of any company get rich from his company's products...without the skill and work of those who make them? Would any skilled worker know how to read, write, count or anything worth anything without the lowest paid professionals in our nation...TEACHERS?
"Trickle Down" theory is wishful thinking by those on the bottom...and a "bend over" invite by those on top...who profit from the fruits of labor...but only "trickle" any of that profit down to the folks who produce those fruits when it suits them ...and then only enough to feed their hopper.
WAKE UP


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Excuse me DUMBASS? This Nation was founded on FREE MARKET principles...you know CAPITALISM? What do YOU EXPECT to happen? Hmm?

And now we have crony capitalism.

 

[The T]

U foolish man...was our independence as a nation gained thru "trickle down"?
Could the CEO of any company get rich from his company's products...without the skill and work of those who make them? Would any skilled worker know how to read, write, count or anything worth anything without the lowest paid professionals in our nation...TEACHERS?
"Trickle Down" theory is wishful thinking by those on the bottom...and a "bend over" invite by those on top...who profit from the fruits of labor...but only "trickle" any of that profit down to the folks who produce those fruits when it suits them ...and then only enough to feed their hopper.
WAKE UP


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Excuse me DUMBASS? This Nation was founded on FREE MARKET principles...you know CAPITALISM? What do YOU EXPECT to happen? Hmm?

And now we have crony capitalism.

Gee...NO kidding...and NOT what the Founders intended, was it? Kinda tells you how out of control this Government has become, doesn't it?

 

[Andylusion]

Who ever asked for equality?

But when the highest earners make 200 times what the average earner makes it is time to ask...why do we continue policies that help the highest earners?

The primary policy that help the highest earners is called "freedom". It's the same freedom that allows the poorest earners, to whittle duck callers on their back porch, and end up with a TV show on A&E.

We continue the policies that help the highest earners, because it's also the best policy to help the lowest earners.

You've mistaken freedom for what in fact is license acquired via corrupted legislation.

The accumulation of excess wealth is not the result of freedom but rather the result of political corruption that bypasses or removes regulations which prevent such exploitative financial maneuvering. Go here to read about just one example: Public Citizen Climate and Energy

Most if not all of the methods employed by such sophisticated whirte-collar criminals as J.P. Morgan Chase's Jamie Dimon to accumulate mega-billion dollar fortunes were impeded by regulations put in place by honest legislators going back as far as 1933. But during the past three decades a rising number of lobbyists have succeeded at bribing our millionaire legislators to remove preventive regulations or to impede implementation of new ones.

I don't expect anyone to rely on an anonymous Internet forum contributor like me for credible information, but I urge those who are interested in knowing what happened to bring the U.S. Economy down to take advantage of the offer presented in my signature line (re: Inside Job). It is extremely educational.

There is no time in the history of this country, or any other Capitalist country, where people didn't accuse the wealthy of getting favors from the government. Even back in the time of Thomas Jefferson, they were accusing people of that.

And then until this day, we have had those people. Under any form of government, under in culture, under any legislation and regulation you can come up with, there will be those people who game the system. From the welfare queen, to the rich CEO.

But the problem with your narrative, is that you are applying a broad brush, to a very small number of people. The number of people gaming the system is a tiny fraction of the whole. Most of the rich, are rich because they worked their way to where they are. Just a fact dude.

Most of the people on the Forbes 400, started with nothing, and made it into something.

And honestly, all this crap about way back when all the CEOs were benevolent men of the people, who only got a salary of 20¢ more than their workers.... come on.... You certainly wouldn't get that impression from the commentary of the 1930s or 40s or 50s.

The reason CEO pay was lower in the 30s, was merely because the economy under FDR sucked.

The reason CEO pay was lower in the 1950s and 60s, is only because we didn't know about it. The accuracy of wages of the top 10% in American greatly increased in the 1980s to 1990s. We know more about what CEOs are paid. The quality of the information was lower before, and because of that you think they were not paid as much. Not true.

 

[Andylusion]

U foolish man...was our independence as a nation gained thru "trickle down"?
Could the CEO of any company get rich from his company's products...without the skill and work of those who make them? Would any skilled worker know how to read, write, count or anything worth anything without the lowest paid professionals in our nation...TEACHERS?
"Trickle Down" theory is wishful thinking by those on the bottom...and a "bend over" invite by those on top...who profit from the fruits of labor...but only "trickle" any of that profit down to the folks who produce those fruits when it suits them ...and then only enough to feed their hopper.
WAKE UP


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Excuse me DUMBASS? This Nation was founded on FREE MARKET principles...you know CAPITALISM? What do YOU EXPECT to happen? Hmm?

And now we have crony capitalism.

Which regulation and legislation encourages. Which is why we on the right, are against those things. Stop voting for people who engage in that.

When Enron approached Clinton to grease the skids on a deal in India, Clinton gladly agreed for the right price.

When Enron approached Bush to help them out of fiscal problems, some of which stemmed from that bad deal in India, Bush told them to take a hike.

Stop voting for people who engage in crony capitalism. That's not our fault. We're not voting for these people.

 

[bripat9643]

Yea...freedom is part of the equation. Freedom from Government oversight. We saw how well that worked during the financial sector meltdown

We have the most highly regulated and controlled financial sectors in the world. The problem was CAUSED by government oversight, that pushed banks to make bad loans.

Please...please stop us from making unsecured loans

We can't help ourselves

Mortgages are secured loans, numskull. And government forced banks to grant mortgages to people who normally wouldn't qualify.

 

[bripat9643]

Who ever asked for equality?

But when the highest earners make 200 times what the average earner makes it is time to ask...why do we continue policies that help the highest earners?

The primary policy that help the highest earners is called "freedom". It's the same freedom that allows the poorest earners, to whittle duck callers on their back porch, and end up with a TV show on A&E.

We continue the policies that help the highest earners, because it's also the best policy to help the lowest earners.

You've mistaken freedom for what in fact is license acquired via corrupted legislation.

The accumulation of excess wealth is not the result of freedom but rather the result of political corruption that bypasses or removes regulations which prevent such exploitative financial maneuvering. Go here to read about just one example: Public Citizen Climate and Energy

Most if not all of the methods employed by such sophisticated whirte-collar criminals as J.P. Morgan Chase's Jamie Dimon to accumulate mega-billion dollar fortunes were impeded by regulations put in place by honest legislators going back as far as 1933. But during the past three decades a rising number of lobbyists have succeeded at bribing our millionaire legislators to remove preventive regulations or to impede implementation of new ones.

I don't expect anyone to rely on an anonymous Internet forum contributor like me for credible information, but I urge those who are interested in knowing what happened to bring the U.S. Economy down to take advantage of the offer presented in my signature line (re: Inside Job). It is extremely educational.

If Dimon is a criminal, then why isn't he in prison? What law did he break?

The fact is that all Dimon did is make a lot of money. And why should government impede anyone from making money? The only thing government should prevent is fraud or theft, not simple money making.

Your post is pure horseshit.

 

[Andylusion]

Actually, yes...the government can and does create jobs

But that is not what we are talking about. We have slashed taxes, deregulated business, suppressed labor all in the name of supply side economics

The trickel down never occurred. The wealthy kept their wealth and ensured that working Anericans knew their place

Yeah, but only way the government can create a job, is by destroying another job, and more.

Every single dollar that a government employee makes, means that a dollar plus more, must be stolen from someone else. Thus every job created, results in multiple jobs destroyed.

Second, trickle down is how everything occurs. Everything in our nation, only happens by trickle down. In fact, throughout the entire world, trickle down is how everything happens.

Name one job.... ONE JOB, that would exist without trickle down? Where did that auto mechanic get the tools... the parts... or even the customer with a car to be worked on? Everything was made by a rich guy somewhere, and that wealth tickled down to the auto mechanic.

U foolish man...was our independence as a nation gained thru "trickle down"?
Could the CEO of any company get rich from his company's products...without the skill and work of those who make them? Would any skilled worker know how to read, write, count or anything worth anything without the lowest paid professionals in our nation...TEACHERS?
"Trickle Down" theory is wishful thinking by those on the bottom...and a "bend over" invite by those on top...who profit from the fruits of labor...but only "trickle" any of that profit down to the folks who produce those fruits when it suits them ...and then only enough to feed their hopper.
WAKE UP

Yes, even education only exists through trickle down. You are crazy if you think otherwise.

Where do you think the tax money comes from, to pay those teachers?

Who pays most of the property taxes in Ohio? Rich do. Moreover, the top 10% are less likely to use those education services, since they tend to private school their kids.

Who pays most of the income taxes in Ohio? Rich. Who pays most of the Federal income taxes? Rich.

Without the trickle down from even inside the tax system, you wouldn't have those teachers.

And by the way...... where did those teachers get those books to teach from? Trickle down. Some wealthy guy made all that stuff. The desks, the supplies, the building itself. All of it would not exist without trickle down.

And yes, by the way, even the founding of this nation was built on tickle down.

The first ships used in the US navy, were build can made by rich people. The muskets provided, came from rich people. About the only thing that wasn't trickle down, was the very man power used to fight the Brits.

 

[Andylusion]

Didn't welfare reform go down in 1996?

Yes, my mistake. People were kicked off welfare in 1996. I keep tying it to the budget battle of 1995. Welfare reform was an aspect of the budget battle, because it was one of the things Republicans wanted to cut..... to balance the budget.

But yes. It was 1996, and it worked.

And it looks like it was signed into law late in 1996, August.
So GDP growth in 1996: 3.8%
GDP growth now: around 2%
Unemployment rate 1996: 5.4%
Unemployment rate now: 6.7%
U.S. GDP by Year

In 1996 we were in the .com boom. Now we are in a stagnant economy.

Sorry but 1996 and now don't look at all alike. Cut welfare now and you'll just slow the economy more. And when the liberals come out to vote it will be back with higher taxes.

So you are saying that 5.4% is a booming economy, and 6.7% is a slow stagnant economy. 1.3% is the difference between booming, and stagnant.

See I guess where I have the problem is, you are saying we can't do that today.

Yet in 1994, Newt Gingrich, wrote the Contract with America, during the 1994 Campaign. Part of that Contract with America was drastically cutting Welfare.
Contract with America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You see is that part of it, right there.

They won. In 1995, they started pushing for welfare reform.

So in 1994, when they proposed and ran their campaign on cutting welfare, and other cost cutting reforms.... the Unemployment rate was up in the 6%+ range, and the GDP growth rate was down in the 2% to 3% range. Very comparable.

Yet the Republicans ran on, and won, with a cutting welfare policy position.

GDP went up after cutting welfare. As one would expect it to (if they understand basic economics).

And unemployment was 1% lower than it was in 1994, and 1% lower than it is today, yet after passing welfare reform, it went even lower. Down to 4%.

I think you are greatly overstated the dot.com boom. The dot.com boom at it's very very height, was extremely limited on the employment side. And while they had a tremendous effect on the stock market, they were not very effective at increasing GDP.

The BLS, wrote a report in 2009 about the Dot.com Bubble, and concluded that the bursting of the bubble caused the loss of 85,000 jobs.

In a country of 300 Million, 85,000 jobs is barely a scratch. Most of the job losses during the 2001 recession time, were not related to the dot.com boom.
It won't let me post the link for some odd reason. Google "After the Dot-com Bubble BLS".

 

[dnsmith35]

You people love to whine, make excuses and blame others don't you?

Can you believe these guys?? There has been income inequality since the beginning of "income". You have some guy raising hell because he flips burgers and makes minimum wage and the Surgeon down the street makes 200,000 per year.

Here's the best advice I can give you worthless socialists - GET A BETTER JOB!!!!! Oh, that's right, I forgot - your boy has done nothing to encourage business for the last 5 years!!!

Get off your lazy asses and go to school, get a marketable trade and move up. YOU CAN'T START AT THE TOP!!!

Stupid little socialists.....

Economic studies prove this point:

http://http://fortune.com/2012/04/24/dont-blame-the-1-for-americas-pay-gap/