The Right To Destroy Jewish History

[rylah]

They were very generous with the Jewish immigrants and refugees. They took land away from the Arab majority to give the European zionists a home. Chaim Weismann was very unhappy . He wanted it all no matter who had lived there for 2,000 years.

No, this is justice and the letter of the law,
generosity suggests beyond what one deserves.

While you try to race bate talking about European Zionists,
the majority of Israelis are people expelled by Arabs from the Middle East.

 

[surada]

Some more Arab history you do not seem to be aware of, regardless of being born and raised in Arabia:


The indigenous peoples of North Africa, disparagingly called Barbarians or Berbers by Greeks and Romans because they spoke neither Greek nor Latin, were forcibly Islamized by the Arab conquest, but they kept their identity and their own language throughout the centuries.

They, too, fought alongside their conquerors, and Berbers who converted to Islam founded the Almoravid and Almoads dynasties, which adhered to a stringent brand of Islam and were among the rulers of Spain.

What Kurds and Berbers have in common is that they are both indigenous, non-Arab populations; have both been forcibly Islamized; and even participated with their new rulers in conquests fought in the name of Islam. Yet neither was treated as equals by the Arabs, who boast of their prophet and of the divine apparition of the Koran in Arabic, and look down on those who embraced their religion but remained “foreigners.”

Then there are the Copts, the indigenous population of Egypt. They converted to Christianity in the 1st century, and stubbornly refused to relinquish their faith through 1,400 years of Arab-Islamic occupation and repression. The Coptic church is Orthodox, autonomous and independent, and led by a pope. Today, Copts make up 10 percent of the population of Egypt.

They do not look for autonomy and feel an integral part of the country, but would like to be treated as equals. It is not likely to happen soon.

Lots of Berbers converted to Judaism. They had a famous warrior queen... al Kahina.

 

[surada]

Educate yourself.

Jews returning to their homeland is an AFRONT to extremist Muslims, which is what the Muslim Brotherhood is.

Not even Egypt could stand them and kicked them out after a year.

Yep. their militant nationalism developed in 1928.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Muslim Brotherhood was a reaction to Zionist behavior in Palestine and British colonialism..

They are banned in the Gulf States.

And by all means, do not take the article seriously, anymore than you have taken any other article, book and even Arabs who are against what the extremists are about which makes life

They were very generous with the Jewish immigrants and refugees. They took land away from the Arab majority to give the European zionists a home. Chaim Weismann was very unhappy . He wanted it all no matter who had lived there for 2,000 years.

The BS you keep devouring from your sources.

No Christians or Muslims were to be removed from the land. At any time, by any Jewish leader. Arabs migrating into the area, and those already living there were getting jobs with Jews created by Jews.

If your learned BS was true, non Jews would have gotten zero jobs with Jews and would have never moved there from Egypt, Arabia, and all other places.

It is the same thing today. Where are Arabs finding jobs?
With Jews.

Jews bought unwanted land like the swamp which became Tel-Aviv. And other swamps and deserts where no one lived.

When a group of people attack another, declare war, as Al Husseini did with the Jews, be courageous enough to take the defeat for your actions and move on, instead on declaring even more war, ask 7 Arab countries to come and destroy a legitimate country and destroy a people simple because they are not Muslims.

No Jew ever complained or attempted to take back TranJordan which was part of the Mandate promised to reconstruct the Nation for the Jewish people.

Everything you say is full of holes and you are never able to cover those.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Lots of Berbers converted to Judaism. They had a famous warrior queen... al Kahina.

So what. You keep repeating this grains of truth as if they matter in the whole picture.

 

[rylah]

Lots of Berbers converted to Judaism. They had a famous warrior queen... al Kahina.

I think it the tribe of Zvulun that built there cities states in the antiquity.

Al Kahina, the one who led the resistance
to the Muslim conquest?

Kahina - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yep. their militant nationalism developed in 1928.

It is called defending oneself after the riots of 1920 and 1921.

They, and you, just keep hoping that Jews will just sit there and be nice and quiet, just as they used to be before the Mandate.

Any and all attacks on Jews before the Mandate......never happened or the Jews did something which brought it against them.

Egypt 1834

Damascus

There are so many where there were no Zionists, and even when Jews purchased land on their homeland, they were not attacked and called thieves or non indigenous with no right to be there. Or stealing land from "Palestinians".

Rewrite history all you like. History comes right back at you.

 

[Rigby5]

I was not going to start a new thread on the forums, but this one seems to be a must.

I know that there are many well meaning people on these threads who want to see an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like Coyote and many others. And then, there are those who are very ill meaning and do nothing but bash Israel and Jews over everything.

I believe that any and all, need to be reminded that this is Jewish land. It has been Jewish land for over 3000 years, and never contested by any one of its invaders and conquerors until the "dreadful day" when the Jews assumed that they could legally regain sovereignty over it and the Balfour Declaration happened and the Mandate for Palestine was to give the Jews their ancient homeland back.

We all know what has happened since 1920.

But what many do not know and do not seem to be aware of is what the people who have been calling themselves Palestinians since 1964 have been doing to ancient places they should have been claiming as their own, for after all, do they not say that they have been on the land as the Ancient Palestinians for the past 5000, no - 6000, no - 10000 years?

Aren't these ancient places and artifacts in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria part of the Palestinian History? Then why are they destroying any and all of it?

This is what has been going on for decades. Why are the "Palestinians" destroying their alleged history?

Palestinians destroying ancient Herodian and Hashmonean antiquities - literally bulldozing Jewish history ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

We've discussed the The Temple Mount Sifting Project before:
The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999.[1] The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society.The destruction of so many tons of property from the Temple Mount was the biggest archaeological crime in history.

The project webpage is now warning of other large-scale destruction of Jewish history by Palestinians, ISIS-style.
----
In full view of people passing on the highway 90, Palestinians are using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to destroy Second Temple-era Jewish settlements in order to build a new village.

This is all happening in Area B, under Palestinian administrative control.

Moreover, it looks like Palestinian antiquities thieves are working in the area at night to steal whatever ancient artifacts they can find to sell on the market.

The article notes that similar destruction has recently begun in the area of the Hasmonean palaces in Jericho.
---------------------------
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Give Area C and the former Jewish Quarter and the Temple Mount to the invading Arabs who are now calling themselves the ancient inhabitants of the land, who should be protecting their ancient history and making tourism out of it?

Which one of you would dare do so?

Does the UN have any say on the Arabs destroying other people's ancient places?
Where has UNESCO been all of this time? What is their position about the endless destruction of Jewish History? Have they not complained about ISIS destroying antiquity?

Oh, wait......they have been giving Palestinian Status to Jewish places like the Cave of the Patriarchs and Rachel's Tomb, and many other places.

I guess if the UN is in on it, then there is no hope for the Jewish people to ever get their ancient lands back, much less be allowed to freely visit those places, which is true when it comes to the Cave and the Tombs, etc, where Jews can only visit if they have a military escort.

Questions:

How can peace be achieved with the PA, the alleged partner for Peace, when it is the PA itself which allows such destruction to happen?

How can peace be achieved when destroying Israel is still in the Hamas and PLO, and Fatah charters and is taught on a daily basis to all Arabs who live in Gaza and areas A and B, and C and even in Israel?

What in the world is going to be done about the endless destruction and the want to destroy all which is Jewish on the Land of Israel, which does include all of Judea and Samaria which is the land of the Jewish People.
(I will not eve speculate what may already have been done to Jewish history in Jordan and Gaza )

DO the Arabs have the right to destroy any and all Jewish History they find and never have to answer to the rest of the world, much less to the Jewish People?

Totally wrong.
The Land of Canaan is NOT Jewish land, and was NEVER ethically Jewish land.

Before Jews invaded the Land of Canaan, around 1000 BC, they were known as Hebrew, not Jewish.
The name Jewish came from having invaded, captured, and living in Jerusalem, and ancient Canaanite city of many thousands of years before the Hebrew invasion.

But the Jews never were the majority, rightful owners, or lasting rulers of the Land of Canaan.
They were defeated and force to leave first by the Assyrians, around 750 BC.

The Babylonians defeated the Jews also around 650 BC, and forced all Jews to leave the Land of Canaan.
So there was not a single Jew living there any more.

Some Jews may have migrated back in after the Babylonians lost their power.
But Jews were not in the Land of Canaan in any number until the Romans picked the Jews as their surrogate, puppet, rulers.
Around 150 BC.
King Herod was not born Jewish, but was just a Roman who pretended to convert.

And Jewish rule for the Romans was evil, with things like crucifixions.
But the Jews committed the sins of Arrogance and Pride.
Twice they rebelled against the Romans, and were defeated twice.
And again were all forced to leave, by the Roman Diaspora Decree by 150 AD.

There was no significant Jewish presence in the Land of Canaan until after Islam had removed all Roman influence, after 700 AD.
But then the Crusaders invaded and wiped out all Jewish presence once again, around 1000 AD.

There was no significant Jewish presence in the Land of Canaan until the illegal Jewish immigration around 1930 and later.

And the claim the Palestinians are trying to destroy Jewish heritage is a total backwards lie.
The reality is the Zionist are attempting to commit total genocide, such as the massacre of hundreds of Arab villages like Dier Yassin, from 1946, and still going on even now.
Just look at a map from 1940 and one from 1950.
There are hundreds of Arab villages missing, with all their inhabitants slaughtered or expelled by force.
Greatest crime of the century.

As for the Cave of the Patriarchs, it was built by Romans for the Roman puppet, Herod.
It has no real Jewish significance.
It is not related to either Temple of Solomon, and if it has any Jewish significance, it would have been destroyed by the Romans, as they destroyed the 2nd Temple of Solomon and any other building of Jewish significance.

As for Rachel's Tomb, it was built around 1400 AD, by the Mamluk Period, Ottoman Empire.
It is not Jewish and there is no evidence of any Jewish history there.
Traditionally is it a local burial plot.
There is a small chance this was at one time also a Jewish burial plot, but there is nothing to support that.

 

[danielpalos]

Does it matter? There were Semites in historic Palestine.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Lots of Berbers converted to Judaism. They had a famous warrior queen... al Kahina.

So that you do come to understand the history of Jewish Berbers:

One moment, please...

www.journeybeyondtravel.com

The difference between Jewish and Muslim Berbers from what I see:

Jews either moved there, or Berbers converted to Judaism on their own.

Berbers were forced to convert to Islam, as all others had been since Mohammad's time.

 

[Rigby5]

Abi, caught in yet another lie. You claim that indee admitted that the western wall is actually from a roman fort, then when you show what he actually said, it is not what he said at all!

The western wall is not part of the old temple and never was considered as such. It is a retaining wall built by Herod for the temple mount.

Whether the largest foundation stones are from the period or Herod or earlier Canaanite temple to Baal, it is not Jewish.
Construction during Herod's reign would be Roman.

 

[danielpalos]

Isn't it silly to be anti-Semitic in historic Palestine?

 

[Rigby5]

Does it matter? There were Semites in historic Palestine.

Yes, but the word "Semite" means Arab, like the Canaanites, Akkadians, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Phoenicians, Philistines, Nabatians, Hewbrew, Amorites, Urites, etc.
And the Jews were the least native and least numerous of all the Semitic people of the Land of Canaan.

 

[surada]

No, this is justice and the letter of the law,
generosity suggests beyond what one deserves.

While you try to race bate talking about European Zionists,
the majority of Israelis are people expelled by Arabs from the Middle East.

The Arab jews left in 1948, 1953, 1956, 1967 and 1973. There was no mad dash to leave.

The European Zionists should have been smarter and kinder towards the people of Palestine.

 

[Rigby5]

So that you do come to understand the history of Jewish Berbers:

One moment, please...

www.journeybeyondtravel.com

The difference between Jewish and Muslim Berbers from what I see:

Jews either moved there, or Berbers converted to Judaism on their own.

Berbers were forced to convert to Islam, as all others had been since Mohammad's time.

Monotheistic religions, like Judaism and Christianity, are protected by the Quran, so were not required to convert to Islam.
Only polytheistic religions were forced.

The Berbers seem to be a real crossroads sort of mix.
{...
The traditional Berber religion is the ancient and native set of beliefs and deities adhered to by the Berbers (Amazigh autochthones) of North Africa. Many ancient Amazigh beliefs were developed locally, whereas others were influenced over time through contact with other ancient Egyptian religion, or borrowed during antiquity from the Punic religion, Judaism, Iberian mythology, and the Hellenistic religion. The most recent influence came from Islam and religion in pre-Islamic Arabia during the medieval period. Some of the ancient Amazigh beliefs still exist today subtly within the Amazigh popular culture and tradition. Syncretic influences from the traditional Amazigh religion can also be found in certain other faiths.
...}

 

[surada]

So that you do come to understand the history of Jewish Berbers:

One moment, please...

www.journeybeyondtravel.com

The difference between Jewish and Muslim Berbers from what I see:

Jews either moved there, or Berbers converted to Judaism on their own.

Berbers were forced to convert to Islam, as all others had been since Mohammad's time.

When you tell yourself lies you'll never have anything but hate.

Conversions were not forced on any of the local populations. No accounts, by either Muslim or non-Muslim sources, mention forced conversion of the Berbers. Indeed, many Berbers did convert to Islam quite quickly. That strengthened the Muslim armies, as huge numbers of newly-converted Berbers would join the armies sweeping across the continent.

 

[Rigby5]

Isn't it silly to be anti-Semitic in historic Palestine?

Semitic means Arab.
Historic Palestine was always Arab.

Jews were temporary invaders for a few hundred year, and later Roman puppets.
They are Arab, but not native to Palestine.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Arab jews left in 1948, 1953, 1956, 1967 and 1973. There was no mad dash to leave.

The European Zionists should have been smarter and kinder towards the people of Palestine.

There are no "Arab" Jews. There only Jews who left Arab conquered lands.

Since you have never met an Arab who likes Jews, and especially Israelis, you keep talking from the side of your mouth.

Go to Israel, meet Arabs who are citizens of Israel, who live and work and deal with Jews on a daily basis, and then come back and spew all of that nonsense again.

 

[danielpalos]

Yes, but the word "Semite" means Arab, like the Canaanites, Akkadians, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Phoenicians, Philistines, Nabatians, Hewbrew, Amorites, Urites, etc.
And the Jews were the least native and least numerous of all the Semitic people of the Land of Canaan.

LInk? That is not my understanding. And the usage of anti-Semite usually refers to Jews in the US.

 

[Sixties Fan]

When you tell yourself lies you'll never have anything but hate.

Conversions were not forced on any of the local populations. No accounts, by either Muslim or non-Muslim sources, mention forced conversion of the Berbers. Indeed, many Berbers did convert to Islam quite quickly. That strengthened the Muslim armies, as huge numbers of newly-converted Berbers would join the armies sweeping across the continent.

Why did Mohammad create an army? Why did they have swords? Because it looked good on them?
In other words, tribes in Arabia after his death did not try to return to their ancient gods and way of life? According to whom?

Well, all the people in Arabia simply fell in love with Islam and wanted to convert. The Kurds also fell in love with Islam? Maybe some saw the wisdom of not fighting but joining, you know the saying/

All other peoples simply could not resist Allah and his superior authority over all other gods.

Oh, yeah.