The Right To Bear Arms

[danielpalos]

Is the Illinois state constitution unconstitutional, because it clearly defines the right to bear arms as an individual one?

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I disagree.
The Minutemen were totally unorganized.
They did not wear uniform, were not paid, and were totally made up of volunteers who were not under any formal contract or commitment.

Read your own quote better:
{,,, Minutemen were civilian colonists who independently formed militia companies self-trained in weaponry, tactics, and military strategies, comprising the American colonial partisan militia during the American Revolutionary War. ...}

Civilian colonists, self-trained, and partisan, definitely means unorganized militia.,

Although the terms militia and minutemen are sometimes used interchangeably today, in the 18th century there was a decided difference between the two. Militia were men in arms formed to protect their towns from foreign invasion and ravages of war. Minutemen were a small hand-picked elite force which were required to be highly mobile and able to assemble quickly. Minutemen were selected from militia muster rolls by their commanding officers.

Minutemen

A historical overview of the contributions of the minutemen to the American Revolution and earlier conflicts

www.ushistory.org

So, minute men were militia men, just like all the others, but they were asked to move around to different areas to help bolster defenses for other towns, correct?

And who armed them? Who are the regular militia?

Are national guardsmen allowed to take their weapons home with them and go to the firing range to practice? Who owns the weapons the national guardsmen use?

This is where your entire argument falls to pieces.

 

[danielpalos]

I disagree.
The Minutemen were totally unorganized.
They did not wear uniform, were not paid, and were totally made up of volunteers who were not under any formal contract or commitment.

Read your own quote better:
{,,, Minutemen were civilian colonists who independently formed militia companies self-trained in weaponry, tactics, and military strategies, comprising the American colonial partisan militia during the American Revolutionary War. ...}

Civilian colonists, self-trained, and partisan, definitely means unorganized militia.,

Although the terms militia and minutemen are sometimes used interchangeably today, in the 18th century there was a decided difference between the two. Militia were men in arms formed to protect their towns from foreign invasion and ravages of war. Minutemen were a small hand-picked elite force which were required to be highly mobile and able to assemble quickly. Minutemen were selected from militia muster rolls by their commanding officers.

Minutemen

A historical overview of the contributions of the minutemen to the American Revolution and earlier conflicts

www.ushistory.org

So, minute men were militia men, just like all the others, but they were asked to move around to different areas to help bolster defenses for other towns, correct?

And who armed them? Who are the regular militia?

Are national guardsmen allowed to take their weapons home with them and go to the firing range to practice? Who owns the weapons the national guardsmen use?

This is where your entire argument falls to pieces.

Did you miss it in the article? Minute men were the "special forces" of their day.

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

 

[Rigby5]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Your point?

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons (the People) within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

A well regulated Militia (of the whole People), being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

And there you go again, undermining your own argument by saying the militia is all of the people, which of course means it is the right of the PEOPLE to bear arms, not the militia.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

So if the militia is the whole people, then the 2nd applies to the whole people, which means it's an individual right, just as the SC found.

Our Second Amendment clearly states that it is well regulated militia of the whole People not inclusive of the unorganized militia. They must have been more right wing back then.

So you deny even that which you quote ad nauseum, which clearly states that the militia is the whole people, something you emphasize in the quote. Yet again you destroy your own argument for us. And you're also again adding things to the second amendment that aren't there. Our Second Amendment clearly states that it is the PEOPLE whose right to bear arms is protected, not the militia (which you also claim is the PEOPLE). The only way you can arrive at your conclusion is by adding things that just are not there.

The unorganized militia or criminals of the whole people may be Infringed unlike the Organized and well regulated militia of the whole people.

When you take weapons away from a criminal being imprisoned, you are NOT infringing.
That is because you are providing for their safety, so you are not taking away the right of defense.
You actually are increasing it.
Government can not infringe legally because rights superseded government.
When you moderate between the conflicting rights of multiple individuals, you are not infringing.
You are attempting to maximize rights between many people.
Any deliberate infringement is illegal.

And you DO legally infringe upon the actions of the Organized and well regulated Militia.
The Posse Comitatus Act deliberately intended to prevent the Organized Militia from being used on civilians in the US.
The Organized Militia could infringe upon individuals, so there has to be laws to curb the Organized Militia from being abusive.

In no way does anything imply that federal gun control is at all legal.

 

[Rigby5]

I disagree.
The Minutemen were totally unorganized.
They did not wear uniform, were not paid, and were totally made up of volunteers who were not under any formal contract or commitment.

Read your own quote better:
{,,, Minutemen were civilian colonists who independently formed militia companies self-trained in weaponry, tactics, and military strategies, comprising the American colonial partisan militia during the American Revolutionary War. ...}

Civilian colonists, self-trained, and partisan, definitely means unorganized militia.,

Although the terms militia and minutemen are sometimes used interchangeably today, in the 18th century there was a decided difference between the two. Militia were men in arms formed to protect their towns from foreign invasion and ravages of war. Minutemen were a small hand-picked elite force which were required to be highly mobile and able to assemble quickly. Minutemen were selected from militia muster rolls by their commanding officers.

Minutemen

A historical overview of the contributions of the minutemen to the American Revolution and earlier conflicts

www.ushistory.org

So, minute men were militia men, just like all the others, but they were asked to move around to different areas to help bolster defenses for other towns, correct?

And who armed them? Who are the regular militia?

Are national guardsmen allowed to take their weapons home with them and go to the firing range to practice? Who owns the weapons the national guardsmen use?

This is where your entire argument falls to pieces.

Did you miss it in the article? Minute men were the "special forces" of their day.

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

They were a special elite forced, but totally and completely unorganized.
They were voluntary, ununiformed, self armed, self trained, and followed no chain of command.

Providing for organizing, arming, or disciplining an Organized Militia only means that people could be drafted if an emergency that warranted it should come up.
That does not mean the Organized Militia exists when no emergency is current.
So the Founders were counting on a volunteer unorganized militia to fill in for less serious or smaller scale emergencies not on the national scale.
Which is why the Founders wanted to ensure the federal government did not interfere with the unorganized militia by passing destructive gun control laws.

 

[danielpalos]

When you take weapons away from a criminal being imprisoned, you are NOT infringing.
That is because you are providing for their safety, so you are not taking away the right of defense.
You actually are increasing it.
Government can not infringe legally because rights superseded government.
When you moderate between the conflicting rights of multiple individuals, you are not infringing.
You are attempting to maximize rights between many people.
Any deliberate infringement is illegal.

And you DO legally infringe upon the actions of the Organized and well regulated Militia.
The Posse Comitatus Act deliberately intended to prevent the Organized Militia from being used on civilians in the US.
The Organized Militia could infringe upon individuals, so there has to be laws to curb the Organized Militia from being abusive.

In no way does anything imply that federal gun control is at all legal.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

 

[danielpalos]

They were a special elite forced, but totally and completely unorganized.

No, they weren't. And, you would know that if you had read the article.

 

[Lakhota]

When will people wake up and do what is right?

 

[Rigby5]

When will people wake up and do what is right?

View attachment 602910

Wrong.
Ending the fillibuster won't accomplish any of those things, but will allow the other side to try even worse things than they are doing now.
Ending the fillibuster does not just work for one side.
Both sides will try to pass bad stuff.
The fillibuster prevents extreme stuff, so is good to limit both sides.

 

[KissMy]

I want violent suspects charged & locked up until trial, then serve their time.

 

[Rigby5]

No, they weren't. And, you would know that if you had read the article.

I read the article, and the Minutemen were unpaid volunteers with their own equipment.
They were selected, but otherwise totally unorganized.

 

[Rigby5]

I want violent suspects charged & locked up until trial, then serve their time.

Wrong.
Trials are about a year or more out, so that is illegal.
Everyone who is not going to run, should be out on bail.

 

[Lastamender]

When will people wake up and do what is right?

View attachment 602910

Manchin and Sinema are wide awake.

 

[Markle]

Wrong.
Trials are about a year or more out, so that is illegal.
Everyone who is not going to run, should be out on bail.

Yeah, as violent crime, especially murder skyrockets, we see how well that is working.

 

[AZrailwhale]

When will people wake up and do what is right?

View attachment 602910

Thank god for the filibuster.

 

[KissMy]

Wrong.
Trials are about a year or more out, so that is illegal.
Everyone who is not going to run, should be out on bail.

Investigation found 43% of people arrested for 2021 homicides, from January through October, were on pretrial release or post-conviction sentencing. Many more crimes by those doing time with ankle monitors instead of in a cage.

Trials can be sped way up & constitution amended. We have more DNA forensics, phone tracking, surveillance cameras, etc than ever before. Hire more investigators, prosecutors & judges to speed up convictions. Bring back Clinton's & Biden's 3 strikes law for violent offenders.

 

[bripat9643]

When will people wake up and do what is right?

View attachment 602910

You listed a lot of reasons that we want to keep it, moron.

 

[Blues Man]

When will people wake up and do what is right?

View attachment 602910

I don;t want any of that shit

 

[Uncensored2008]

I want violent suspects charged & locked up until trial, then serve their time.

No you don't.

You want enemies of the Reich locked up until they are executed.

You don't want BLM Brown Shirt or ANTIFA Insurrectionists locked up or prosecuted.

You and your Reich are waging war against the American Republic and Constitution

 

[Uncensored2008]

Wrong.
Trials are about a year or more out, so that is illegal.
Everyone who is not going to run, should be out on bail.

If they let them out on bail, how will they coerce confessions from them?