The Right To Bear Arms

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
You disagree with the 14th Amendment, Daniel? Why is that?
I don't disagree with it; your usage of it is merely irrelevant in this context. Our Second Amendment is clear.

What point are you trying to make with our Fourteenth Amendment?
That states cannot make laws that are unconstitutional. The Second Amendment is clear, the people have the right to bear arms.
In the context of a well regulated militia. Yes. Very clear
That is false.
 

InspectorDetector

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Where does it state that?
Article 1 Section 8 Clause 15 or 16

"A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington

That's good enough for me, skippy.......
The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

Yeah right. SO you are telling me that the citizens have to rely on the "state" to arm them....nonsense.
 

InspectorDetector

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Where does it state that?
Article 1 Section 8 Clause 15 or 16

That only allows the federal government to tax in order to pay for arms if needed for something big, like defense from an invasion. It does not imply that the federal government was the normal source of arms for the militia before it was called for federal duty, and that implies each individual was to arm themselves. Which is the only logical interpretation since there were no significant police back then, and there were things like native uprisings, etc.
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Again - leave it up to the "state" to arm the populace....sounds just like the former USSR.
 

danielpalos

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
You disagree with the 14th Amendment, Daniel? Why is that?
I don't disagree with it; your usage of it is merely irrelevant in this context. Our Second Amendment is clear.

What point are you trying to make with our Fourteenth Amendment?
That states cannot make laws that are unconstitutional. The Second Amendment is clear, the people have the right to bear arms.
The People are the Militia. You cannot ignore that legal fact.
 

danielpalos

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
You disagree with the 14th Amendment, Daniel? Why is that?
I don't disagree with it; your usage of it is merely irrelevant in this context. Our Second Amendment is clear.

What point are you trying to make with our Fourteenth Amendment?
That states cannot make laws that are unconstitutional. The Second Amendment is clear, the people have the right to bear arms.
In the context of a well regulated militia. Yes. Very clear
That's a reason they gave for the freedom being protected, but it's not restrictive. IOW, they might as well have said, "Because we need to be warm in the winter, the right to wear a coat shall not be infringed". That doesn't mean your right to wear a coat only exists in the winter but not in the fall or spring. It merely defines a reason for your freedom to wear a coat.
Natural rights are recognized and secured in State Constitutions and available via due process in federal venues.

All people are by nature free and independent and have inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy. (California State Constitution)

States reserve their traditional police power.

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. (The Federalist Number Forty-Five)

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)
 

danielpalos

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
You disagree with the 14th Amendment, Daniel? Why is that?

I do not really agree with Daniel on this one, but the 14 amendment does not automatically "incorporate" all the restrictions in the bill of rights to also apply against the states, cities, or other individuals.
The courts have to individually decide to "incorporate" them.
But I believe Heller or McDonald finally accomplished that.
The right to bear arms now is a protected individual right.
Protected as an individual right by FedGov against States under the 14th Amendment, yes.

The 14th Amendment is a clumsy POL in my opinion. It really screws up all else.
Our Second Amendment is more relevant. There are no Individual or singular terms in our Second Amendment.
 

danielpalos

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Where does it state that?
Article 1 Section 8 Clause 15 or 16

"A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington

That's good enough for me, skippy.......
The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

Yeah right. SO you are telling me that the citizens have to rely on the "state" to arm them....nonsense.
Nonsense is all you have, right wingers. That is why it can be soo difficult to take y'all seriously in immigration threads. Appealing to ignorance of the law is what y'all are best at.

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
 

danielpalos

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Where does it state that?
Article 1 Section 8 Clause 15 or 16

That only allows the federal government to tax in order to pay for arms if needed for something big, like defense from an invasion. It does not imply that the federal government was the normal source of arms for the militia before it was called for federal duty, and that implies each individual was to arm themselves. Which is the only logical interpretation since there were no significant police back then, and there were things like native uprisings, etc.
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Again - leave it up to the "state" to arm the populace....sounds just like the former USSR.
There is no appeal to ignorance of Constitutional law, right wingers. You are only welcome to ignore the Russian Constitution in the US.
 

hadit

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
You disagree with the 14th Amendment, Daniel? Why is that?
I don't disagree with it; your usage of it is merely irrelevant in this context. Our Second Amendment is clear.

What point are you trying to make with our Fourteenth Amendment?
That states cannot make laws that are unconstitutional. The Second Amendment is clear, the people have the right to bear arms.
The People are the Militia. You cannot ignore that legal fact.
The militia is the people. People have the right to bear arms, not the militia.
 

hadit

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
You disagree with the 14th Amendment, Daniel? Why is that?
I don't disagree with it; your usage of it is merely irrelevant in this context. Our Second Amendment is clear.

What point are you trying to make with our Fourteenth Amendment?
That states cannot make laws that are unconstitutional. The Second Amendment is clear, the people have the right to bear arms.
In the context of a well regulated militia. Yes. Very clear
That's a reason they gave for the freedom being protected, but it's not restrictive. IOW, they might as well have said, "Because we need to be warm in the winter, the right to wear a coat shall not be infringed". That doesn't mean your right to wear a coat only exists in the winter but not in the fall or spring. It merely defines a reason for your freedom to wear a coat.
Natural rights are recognized and secured in State Constitutions and available via due process in federal venues.

All people are by nature free and independent and have inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy. (California State Constitution)

States reserve their traditional police power.

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. (The Federalist Number Forty-Five)

Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Illinois State Constitution)
We're not talking about the Illinois state constitution. Stop quoting it as if it's relevant.
 

hadit

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
You disagree with the 14th Amendment, Daniel? Why is that?

I do not really agree with Daniel on this one, but the 14 amendment does not automatically "incorporate" all the restrictions in the bill of rights to also apply against the states, cities, or other individuals.
The courts have to individually decide to "incorporate" them.
But I believe Heller or McDonald finally accomplished that.
The right to bear arms now is a protected individual right.
Protected as an individual right by FedGov against States under the 14th Amendment, yes.

The 14th Amendment is a clumsy POL in my opinion. It really screws up all else.
Our Second Amendment is more relevant. There are no Individual or singular terms in our Second Amendment.
There aren't any in the First Amendment either, yet you claim it applies to you individually.
 

danielpalos

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
You disagree with the 14th Amendment, Daniel? Why is that?
I don't disagree with it; your usage of it is merely irrelevant in this context. Our Second Amendment is clear.

What point are you trying to make with our Fourteenth Amendment?
That states cannot make laws that are unconstitutional. The Second Amendment is clear, the people have the right to bear arms.
The People are the Militia. You cannot ignore that legal fact.
The militia is the people. People have the right to bear arms, not the militia.
The People are the Militia. Well regulated militia of the People may not be infringed when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union.
 

danielpalos

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We're not talking about the Illinois state constitution. Stop quoting it as if it's relevant.
Did you forget your own right wing propaganda?

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.

This is a State's sovereign right secured by our Second Amendment:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.
 

danielpalos

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
You disagree with the 14th Amendment, Daniel? Why is that?

I do not really agree with Daniel on this one, but the 14 amendment does not automatically "incorporate" all the restrictions in the bill of rights to also apply against the states, cities, or other individuals.
The courts have to individually decide to "incorporate" them.
But I believe Heller or McDonald finally accomplished that.
The right to bear arms now is a protected individual right.
Protected as an individual right by FedGov against States under the 14th Amendment, yes.

The 14th Amendment is a clumsy POL in my opinion. It really screws up all else.
Our Second Amendment is more relevant. There are no Individual or singular terms in our Second Amendment.
There aren't any in the First Amendment either, yet you claim it applies to you individually.
Our First Amendment does not claim only well regulated militia of the People are necessary and therefore, only they can petition for redress of grievances.
 

hadit

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
You disagree with the 14th Amendment, Daniel? Why is that?
I don't disagree with it; your usage of it is merely irrelevant in this context. Our Second Amendment is clear.

What point are you trying to make with our Fourteenth Amendment?
That states cannot make laws that are unconstitutional. The Second Amendment is clear, the people have the right to bear arms.
The People are the Militia. You cannot ignore that legal fact.
The militia is the people. People have the right to bear arms, not the militia.
The People are the Militia. Well regulated militia of the People may not be infringed when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union.
The militia is the people.
 

hadit

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We're not talking about the Illinois state constitution. Stop quoting it as if it's relevant.
Did you forget your own right wing propaganda?

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.

This is a State's sovereign right secured by our Second Amendment:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.
How does Illinois' constitution effect people in Texas?
 

hadit

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
You disagree with the 14th Amendment, Daniel? Why is that?

I do not really agree with Daniel on this one, but the 14 amendment does not automatically "incorporate" all the restrictions in the bill of rights to also apply against the states, cities, or other individuals.
The courts have to individually decide to "incorporate" them.
But I believe Heller or McDonald finally accomplished that.
The right to bear arms now is a protected individual right.
Protected as an individual right by FedGov against States under the 14th Amendment, yes.

The 14th Amendment is a clumsy POL in my opinion. It really screws up all else.
Our Second Amendment is more relevant. There are no Individual or singular terms in our Second Amendment.
There aren't any in the First Amendment either, yet you claim it applies to you individually.
Our First Amendment does not claim only well regulated militia of the People are necessary and therefore, only they can petition for redress of grievances.
There are no individual terms in the First Amendment. You're assuming it applies to you as an individual. IOW, the lack of individual terms in the Second is not sufficient to say it does not apply individually, and thus has the SC ruled.
 

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
You disagree with the 14th Amendment, Daniel? Why is that?
I don't disagree with it; your usage of it is merely irrelevant in this context. Our Second Amendment is clear.

What point are you trying to make with our Fourteenth Amendment?
That states cannot make laws that are unconstitutional. The Second Amendment is clear, the people have the right to bear arms.
The People are the Militia. You cannot ignore that legal fact.
The people also have the right to be secure in their homes, persons, papers....etc. (4th Amendment)

Are you also arguing that the 4th Amendment only protects collective rights? If so, your logic fall to pieces and you NEVER EXPLAIN OR JUSTIFY YOUR BULLSHIT. YOU JUST KEEP REPEATING YOUR BULLSHIT!
 

danielpalos

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
You disagree with the 14th Amendment, Daniel? Why is that?
I don't disagree with it; your usage of it is merely irrelevant in this context. Our Second Amendment is clear.

What point are you trying to make with our Fourteenth Amendment?
That states cannot make laws that are unconstitutional. The Second Amendment is clear, the people have the right to bear arms.
The People are the Militia. You cannot ignore that legal fact.
The militia is the people. People have the right to bear arms, not the militia.
The People are the Militia. Well regulated militia of the People may not be infringed when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union.
The militia is the people.
The People are the Militia.
 

danielpalos

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We're not talking about the Illinois state constitution. Stop quoting it as if it's relevant.
Did you forget your own right wing propaganda?

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected.

This is a State's sovereign right secured by our Second Amendment:

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.
How does Illinois' constitution affect people in Texas?
States' rights.
 

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