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The Right To Bear Arms

danielpalos

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You disagree, Daniel. Why do you disagree that community is not the same as the military?
Because it is irrelevant. The People are the Militia. Our Second Amendment is clear.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I wasn't talking about the militia. Please do try to actually read what is written before spewing yet another of your 5 favorite lines.
I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
Dude! I wasn't talking about the militia! Let it go.
The People are the Militia. There is no one unconnected with the Militia, only with the organized and well-regulated militia.
 

hadit

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You disagree, Daniel. Why do you disagree that community is not the same as the military?
Because it is irrelevant. The People are the Militia. Our Second Amendment is clear.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I wasn't talking about the militia. Please do try to actually read what is written before spewing yet another of your 5 favorite lines.
I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
Dude! I wasn't talking about the militia! Let it go.
The People are the Militia. There is no one unconnected with the Militia, only with the organized and well-regulated militia.
That just means that no one can be denied the right to bear arms. Is that what you're trying to say?

Think a moment about what you're saying. You're saying that only the militia has the right to bear arms, but that's not what the amendment says, is it?
 

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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You disagree, Daniel. Why do you disagree that community is not the same as the military?
Because it is irrelevant. The People are the Militia. Our Second Amendment is clear.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I wasn't talking about the militia. Please do try to actually read what is written before spewing yet another of your 5 favorite lines.
I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
Dude! I wasn't talking about the militia! Let it go.
The People are the Militia. There is no one unconnected with the Militia, only with the organized and well-regulated militia.
That just means that no one can be denied the right to bear arms. Is that what you're trying to say?

Think a moment about what you're saying. You're saying that only the militia has the right to bear arms, but that's not what the amendment says, is it?
If the Militia are the people, and only the people/militia have the right to bear arms, why do we have the biggest, most powerful military the world has ever known?

Things should change.
 

danielpalos

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You disagree, Daniel. Why do you disagree that community is not the same as the military?
Because it is irrelevant. The People are the Militia. Our Second Amendment is clear.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I wasn't talking about the militia. Please do try to actually read what is written before spewing yet another of your 5 favorite lines.
I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
Dude! I wasn't talking about the militia! Let it go.
The People are the Militia. There is no one unconnected with the Militia, only with the organized and well-regulated militia.
That just means that no one can be denied the right to bear arms. Is that what you're trying to say?

Think a moment about what you're saying. You're saying that only the militia has the right to bear arms, but that's not what the amendment says, is it?
That just means anyone can be drafted for the security of our free States.

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia
 

hadit

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You disagree, Daniel. Why do you disagree that community is not the same as the military?
Because it is irrelevant. The People are the Militia. Our Second Amendment is clear.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I wasn't talking about the militia. Please do try to actually read what is written before spewing yet another of your 5 favorite lines.
I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
Dude! I wasn't talking about the militia! Let it go.
The People are the Militia. There is no one unconnected with the Militia, only with the organized and well-regulated militia.
That just means that no one can be denied the right to bear arms. Is that what you're trying to say?

Think a moment about what you're saying. You're saying that only the militia has the right to bear arms, but that's not what the amendment says, is it?
That just means anyone can be drafted for the security of our free States.

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia
The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do, and no, you can't keep all the arms in an armory somewhere and expect the PEOPLE to go there to get them in an emergency. The PEOPLE own them and keep them at home. We've been over this, and it's obvious that you have no clue what the militia was at the time the amendment was written. And why do you keep saying the government owes me weapons?
 

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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That just means anyone can be drafted for the security of our free States.

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia
But not creating the Militia.

Note how it says that the people have the right to bear arms, but also KEEP arms. You can't ignore the "keep" part.
 

danielpalos

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That just means anyone can be drafted for the security of our free States.

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia
But not creating the Militia.

Note how it says that the people have the right to bear arms, but also KEEP arms. You can't ignore the "keep" part.
Only right wingers appeal to ignorance of the law but still want to be taken as seriously as the "gospel Truth" in border threads.

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
 

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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That just means anyone can be drafted for the security of our free States.

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia
But not creating the Militia.

Note how it says that the people have the right to bear arms, but also KEEP arms. You can't ignore the "keep" part.
Only right wingers appeal to ignorance of the law but still want to be taken as seriously as the "gospel Truth" in border threads.

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
That doesn't explain away the "keep" part.

The people have the right to keep arms, right?

They also have the right to serve in the militia, and to "bear" arms.

Keep

KEEP

KEEP

Dictionary: KEEP

keep
\ ˈkēp \
kept\ ˈkept \; keeping
Definition of keep
(Entry 1 of 2)
transitive verb
1a: to retain in one's possession or power



There's no getting around the plain language.
 

danielpalos

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That just means anyone can be drafted for the security of our free States.

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia
But not creating the Militia.

Note how it says that the people have the right to bear arms, but also KEEP arms. You can't ignore the "keep" part.
Only right wingers appeal to ignorance of the law but still want to be taken as seriously as the "gospel Truth" in border threads.

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
That doesn't explain away the "keep" part.

The people have the right to keep arms, right?

They also have the right to serve in the militia, and to "bear" arms.

Keep

KEEP

KEEP

Dictionary: KEEP

keep
\ ˈkēp \
kept\ ˈkept \; keeping
Definition of keep
(Entry 1 of 2)
transitive verb
1a: to retain in one's possession or power



There's no getting around the plain language.
No, there isn't. Right-wingers prefer to appeal to ignorance.

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia

GI's are generally issued Arms they keep and bear upon weapons qualification and necessity.
 

hadit

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
 

danielpalos

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
 

hadit

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
 

bendog

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You disagree, Daniel. Why do you disagree that community is not the same as the military?
Because it is irrelevant. The People are the Militia. Our Second Amendment is clear.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I wasn't talking about the militia. Please do try to actually read what is written before spewing yet another of your 5 favorite lines.
I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
Dude! I wasn't talking about the militia! Let it go.
The People are the Militia. There is no one unconnected with the Militia, only with the organized and well-regulated militia.
That just means that no one can be denied the right to bear arms. Is that what you're trying to say?

Think a moment about what you're saying. You're saying that only the militia has the right to bear arms, but that's not what the amendment says, is it?
If the Militia are the people, and only the people/militia have the right to bear arms, why do we have the biggest, most powerful military the world has ever known?

Things should change.
If you are the militia, you must be regulated. According to the Amendment. Trust me, you don't want that. You, and I, just want to peacefully own our guns. It's not hard. Nor is it controversial.
 

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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You disagree, Daniel. Why do you disagree that community is not the same as the military?
Because it is irrelevant. The People are the Militia. Our Second Amendment is clear.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I wasn't talking about the militia. Please do try to actually read what is written before spewing yet another of your 5 favorite lines.
I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
Dude! I wasn't talking about the militia! Let it go.
The People are the Militia. There is no one unconnected with the Militia, only with the organized and well-regulated militia.
That just means that no one can be denied the right to bear arms. Is that what you're trying to say?

Think a moment about what you're saying. You're saying that only the militia has the right to bear arms, but that's not what the amendment says, is it?
If the Militia are the people, and only the people/militia have the right to bear arms, why do we have the biggest, most powerful military the world has ever known?

Things should change.
If you are the militia, you must be regulated. According to the Amendment. Trust me, you don't want that. You, and I, just want to peacefully own our guns. It's not hard. Nor is it controversial.
I assume by "regulated" you mean well trained and functioning properly?

I am. Are you?
 

StormAl

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No, the militia is the people. The people need to be armed so the militia can be formed. The PEOPLE have the right to bear arms, not the militia.
Your substitution is a fallacy. Criminals of the People do not have a right to keep and bear Arms.

Well regulated militia of the whole and entire People (of which even You speak) have literal recourse to our Second Amendment when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union.
Not a substitution. I merely showed you that that PEOPLE have the right to bear arms, not the militia.

The right to bear arms is the right to be in the militia.

Imagine the militia having the right to be in the militia.
Complete bullshit revision of history.

Minute Men had to purchase and maintain their own firearms to be ready for militia service when needed, which was their duty.

The right of people to keep those firearms was secured and guaranteed in the bill of rights and the authority withheld from the new federal government so the people would accept the new constitution.

Read the fucking federalist papers, for fuck's sake.
That was before our federal Constitution. Our Founding Fathers specifically put this in our federal Constitution:

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Except that the federal use of calling up the organized militia for national defense is only a small part of what the militia is for. An armed population is for state defense and disasters, municipal defense, disasters, and posses, and for individual home protection. The federal use may never even happen in an average lifetime. The personal defense use will happen many times n an ordinary lifetime.
There is no appeal to ignorance of express law.

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia
. . . and disciplining the Militia

All a governor has to do is call the Militia in to organized and well-regulated.
 

danielpalos

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
 

danielpalos

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I assume by "regulated" you mean well trained and functioning properly?

I am. Are you?
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
 

frigidweirdo

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You disagree, Daniel. Why do you disagree that community is not the same as the military?
Because it is irrelevant. The People are the Militia. Our Second Amendment is clear.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I wasn't talking about the militia. Please do try to actually read what is written before spewing yet another of your 5 favorite lines.
I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
Dude! I wasn't talking about the militia! Let it go.
The People are the Militia. There is no one unconnected with the Militia, only with the organized and well-regulated militia.
That just means that no one can be denied the right to bear arms. Is that what you're trying to say?

Think a moment about what you're saying. You're saying that only the militia has the right to bear arms, but that's not what the amendment says, is it?
If the Militia are the people, and only the people/militia have the right to bear arms, why do we have the biggest, most powerful military the world has ever known?

Things should change.
If you are the militia, you must be regulated. According to the Amendment. Trust me, you don't want that. You, and I, just want to peacefully own our guns. It's not hard. Nor is it controversial.

That's not true at all. The Amendment says a well regulated militia is best for the security of a free state. It doesn't say the government has to do this.

The Bill of Rights is a government document. The Constitution can do two things, empower the government or limit the power of the government. In this case it LIMITS the power of the government by preventing them from stopping individuals having arms and preventing them stopping people going into the militia.

There's no clause in the US constitution that FORCES the US govt to do something.
 

hadit

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The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed. The militia does not bear arms, the people do,
The State has a right to organize militia. The People are the Militia. You are simply appealing to ignorance, like usual for the right-wing.
The people have the right to bear arms, full stop. The people, not the militia.
That is nothing but right wing propaganda.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
The SC agrees with it, so no. Look, you can regurgitate your talking points all day long, but it won't change reality. People can have guns, it's that simple.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Amendment 14.
 

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