The rich shall be lost in Hell

[TofuDog]

The bible WAS the first book of communism. Run by one guy, everyone has to think the same or they'll burn you in hell for all eternity, in some religions everyone wears the same thing, religious food blows, and everyone looks like they're shell shocked, just like the people in North Korea.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The bible WAS the first book of communism. Run by one guy, everyone has to think the same or they'll burn you in hell for all eternity, in some religions everyone wears the same thing, religious food blows, and everyone looks like they're shell shocked, just like the people in North Korea.

Hey.......Tofu Brains.........run by one guy? Might wanna check your Bible again. God isn't a "guy", He's light.

Next? Look up the word "eternal" sometime. It means that you've always been here, will always be here and are here now.

However....................

If you've got a beginning (i.e. birth), then you are not eternal.

Now......point of logic..........how can you be eternal if you have a starting point?

And...........if you don't like the food.......join another church.

 

[TofuDog]

I'd need to find a vegetarian church... With good weed.

 

[editec]

I'd need to find a vegetarian church... With good weed.

Here 'tis...

The Rastafari movement is a monotheistic, Abrahamic, new religious movement[1] that accepts Haile Selassie I, the former Emperor of Ethiopia, as the incarnation of God, called Jah[2] or Jah Rastafari. Haile Selassie is also seen as part of the Holy Trinity and as the returned messiah promised in the Bible.
Other characteristics of Rastafari include the spiritual use of cannabis,[3][4] rejection of western society (called "Babylon"), and various Afrocentric social and political aspirations,[3][5] such as the teachings of Jamaican publicist, organizer, and black separatist Marcus Garvey (also often regarded as a prophet), whose political and cultural vision helped inspire Leonard Howell to develop the foundations of this world view. The Rastafari movement predominantly emerged in Jamaica in the 20th century, and it proclaims Africa (also "Zion") as the original place where the body of the first man was found, which established independency among blacks.
The name Rastafari comes from "Ras" (literally "Head," an Ethiopian title equivalent to Duke), and "Tafari Makonnen", the pre-coronation name of Haile Selassie I. Rastafari is commonly called "Rastafarianism", but this term is considered derogatory and offensive by Rastas themselves.[6]

source

 

[RodISHI]

I'd need to find a vegetarian church... With good weed.

Here 'tis...

The Rastafari movement is a monotheistic, Abrahamic, new religious movement[1] that accepts Haile Selassie I, the former Emperor of Ethiopia, as the incarnation of God, called Jah[2] or Jah Rastafari. Haile Selassie is also seen as part of the Holy Trinity and as the returned messiah promised in the Bible.
Other characteristics of Rastafari include the spiritual use of cannabis,[3][4] rejection of western society (called "Babylon"), and various Afrocentric social and political aspirations,[3][5] such as the teachings of Jamaican publicist, organizer, and black separatist Marcus Garvey (also often regarded as a prophet), whose political and cultural vision helped inspire Leonard Howell to develop the foundations of this world view. The Rastafari movement predominantly emerged in Jamaica in the 20th century, and it proclaims Africa (also "Zion") as the original place where the body of the first man was found, which established independency among blacks.
The name Rastafari comes from "Ras" (literally "Head," an Ethiopian title equivalent to Duke), and "Tafari Makonnen", the pre-coronation name of Haile Selassie I. Rastafari is commonly called "Rastafarianism", but this term is considered derogatory and offensive by Rastas themselves.[6]

source

We mowed over a few hemp plants yesterday. I'm wondering who has been rolling their own and dropped some of their seeds in our backyard??

 

[mskafka]

I appreciate what you are saying Quartermass, but you must be careful. Sure, the wealthy who ignore the poor, the "it's all about me", "get a job you loser" people sicken me as well. But it is not our right to judge who is hellbound, and who isn't. Be careful making such assertions. That is not our decision.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know.......Hell is a myth.

The actual place works like this........Heaven is surrounded by fire (Gheninom), which is there to purify your soul (get rid of the sin), so that you can enter Heaven and not screw the place up.

Think of it as a "clean room" entrance.

And everyone, I mean EVERYONE (according to the Torah) will eventually get into Heaven.

Even Hitler.

 

[Quatermass]

by ABikerSailor:
"Now.........if you hold that needle's eye close to yours and look through it at a camel several yards away (like around 100), then you CAN get a camel to pass through the eye of a needle."

Isn't that rather stretching interpretation ABikerSailor, from the sublime, to the ridiculous?

by mskafka:
"..it is not our right to judge who is hellbound, and who isn't. Be careful making such assertions."

Don't forget who subscribed the Opening Post mskafka. It wasn't Quatermass, but one Jesus Christ, some 2000 odd years ago, on an earlier Messageboard.

 

[garyd]

I have seen few grosser misunderstandings of scripture in my life.

The notion that everyone who has wealth is in love with the money is ludicrous.

Let us examine the scripture you quoted in it's full context as it is found in Mark where it exists in it's most complete form.

I will to save time and space paraphrase extensively.

The Rich Young Ruler arrives and asks his question, "What must I do to inherit eternal life?"

For openers the question is in and of itself a bit bizarre. How do you inherit something? You get written into the will. And is that up to you or the person from whom you wish to inherit?

Christ however ignoring this salient point for purposes of his own now lays on him the second table of the Ten Commandments, that is those regarding your relationship with your fellow man. To which The RYR smiles and replies, "All these I have kept since my youth."

Now many moderns both within and without the church make the same mistake as the originator of this thread and automatically assume he is lying.

However the Reponse of Jesus the only begotten son of God, the same God for whom lying seems to be among the worst sins there are - at least it is preached against more than any other - is one of love!

Would the son of God respond with love to an out and out lie, knowingly and boldly told? I think not. And lets not forget that the word kept here doesn't mean 'done perfectly' but rather that these commandments are the RYR's Gold Standard and that it is them that he judges all his actions.

Why then does the rich young ruler leave saddened then? He obviously can't be a lover of money or he couldn't even make a pretense at keeping the second table of the ten commandments. No, you see money has many snares and love of wealth is the least of those and the least subtle. Because of his wealth and how he uses it he has much fame and even more prestige within the society in which he lives. I suspect in fact that those over whom he ruled thought him the best ruler they'd ever known. He cares for the widows and orphans. He strives diligently to settle legal matters with justice and fairness. He is in short as close to a paragon of vitue in these matters as a man can get, but he falters in the face of the first table of the Ten Commandments for that is indeed what Christ essentially lays before him right before the RYR leaves broken, not because he loves money but rather because he fears that absent the money, he will lose the fame and prestige and that he is not yet ready to cede.

That's why the apostles are so suprised by Christ's statement about the rich man. And why in modern terms what they ask is, essentially, in modern terminology, If this guy, a bonafide charitable superstar with all his giving can't get in how does anyone get in?

And Christ's answer, boiled down to it's essence? Man can't, but God can save any he chooses.

Now before we consign the RYr to the pit lets consider a few other things.

1. Why is the RYR with access to best Hebrew Scholars of the day hunting down this poor boy who doesn't even own his own home? There is only one logical answer, he's already asked those scholars and his conscience driven by the Holy Spirit remains unconvinced.

2. It is the Holy Spirit brought the RYR to see Jesus.

3. Almost certainly that same Spirit isn't through with him yet.

4. It is thought by some that this might have been Nicodemus.

 

[mskafka]

by mskafka:
"..it is not our right to judge who is hellbound, and who isn't. Be careful making such assertions."

Don't forget who subscribed the Opening Post mskafka. It wasn't Quatermass, but one Jesus Christ, some 2000 odd years ago, on an earlier Messageboard.[/QUOTE]


Okay, so what you are trying to convey to me is that you are a divine prophet? Is that what you are trying to say, or am I misunderstanding the point? If this is the case, then you are delusional. I believe that God talks to us, in our hearts, and our minds, in the form of conscience, and instincts. I believe that we are to hear him, instead of talking all the time. HEAR HIM! He knows what you need before you ask. Correct? That is what I've read in scripture.

Because I am far from wealthy as I work for a living, I am not trying to justify those who in my opinion have wealth beyond (in my opinion) their needs. I'm on your side. I have personal disdain for those who ignore the poor, and say: "get a job, you loser".

I am well aware of what Matthew 19:24 says. Another interpretation, as I'm well you are aware of, is that some scholars (based upon historical documents) theorize that the "eye of a needle" is not the literal eye of a needle. It referred to- a gate in the wall around ancient Jerusalem called the "Eye of the Needle," or the "Needle's Eye." The only way a camel could get through this "Eye of the Needle" was to be unloaded and crawl through on its knees. This is one hypothesis. Some question its validity.

I was a member of the Church of Christ throughout my upbringing and have recently attended the Catholic Church.

But my point, and there are more to come, is that we are mortals, and it is not our responsibility to decide who is damned and who is heaven-bound.

Now there are some people who regardless of their knowledge of the basic teachings of Christianity, thing that pretentiousness, and the "God helps those who help themselves", still sadly remain. Perhaps they have God's blessings, and perhaps they don't. But I am a mere mortal. I am not God, and I have no right to judge those who I think are heaven or hell-bound.

So again, what are you trying to convey here? I am FULLY aware of the New Testament teachings, and the arrogance that you display trying to stump me saying that this is Jesus' sayings, and not your own. You need to read more my friend. I hope and pray that you come to a better understanding.

 

[Citizen]

Simply put, judge not lest you be judged.

 

[garyd]

Yet then how are we to test every spirit as we are commanded in 1st John, or expel the immoral brother as we are old in 1st Corinthians?

 

[Quatermass]

In garyd's drunken spectacle of a post (#29) he / she, (without qualification), tells us:

by garyd: "The notion that everyone who has wealth is in love with the money is ludicrous."

Of course the rich love money. That's why they have so much of it. That's why they can never get enough of it. That's why they continue to accumulate it, even when they have amassed a great and shameless quantity of it.

the rich accumulate their wealth because it means so much to them. Because it makes them greater and happier than they could otherwise imagine.

...But then perhaps Christ was wrong when he points out in Luke:

"No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

16:13
And

"For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

12:34

Of course in the Biblical epoch, great sages of old didn't have the likes of 'garyd' to point out the err of their ways.. with rambling, incoherent, confused and dishonest offerings, full of convenient invention and foolish assumption.

But the farce continues. garyd turns his attention to the question of eternal life and asks:

by garyd: "How do you inherit something? You get written into the will. And is that up to you or the person from whom you wish to inherit? Christ however ignoring this salient point for purposes of his own now lays on him the second table of the Ten Commandments"

It should be pointed out here that garyd voices a common 'christian' notion in this question, that is the belief that Christianity is a passive philosophy, where advocates have merely to 'accept Jesus into their hearts' and they'll be 'saved in the eternal hereafter'. This is a manifestation of spiritual laziness. So of course in garyd's world, inheritance of the Kingdom of Heaven is assured already, and any idea of sin (here avarice), preventing a 'christian's' entry is incomprehensible and just wrong, even if voiced most explicitly by Jesus himself ('for purposes of his own')!