The Reductio Ad Absurdum of Socialism: Venezuela

boedicca

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Quelle Surprise!

Chavez's socialist policies in Venezuela are destroying its economy:

It's a common experience in Venezuela, where the economy contracted 3.3 percent in 2009 and is expected to shrink further this year. Few business owners see a rosy future, at least in the short term.

Jose Guerra, a former Central Bank economist, says state intervention in private businesses is hitting the economy hard.

"The government is nationalizing, expropriating, or confiscating," he says. "They are not creating new wealth; this is wealth that was already created."

If that weren't bad enough, another factor is hobbling the economy — an unprecedented energy crisis.

Critics say a lack of investment, coupled with government ineptitude, left Venezuela without the electrical generation capacity it needs. The government blames a brutal drought.

Whatever the reason, cities such as San Cristobal go dark every day — sometimes for four hours or more, as the government uses rolling blackouts to save energy.

On a recent morning at Zambrano auto works, the compressors and power painters come on after a blackout. Workers have been at a standstill for an hour, says Jesus Yanis, who paints cars. He adds that he expects the power to go out again later in the day, for another two hours.

The blackouts have hurt business, Yanis says. ...


Economic Woes Threaten Chavez's Socialist Vision : NPR


Yet more proof that eventually Socialism runs out of other people's money.
 
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rightwinger

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Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto
 
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boedicca

boedicca

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Corporations are not erasing the middle class.

Big Government sucking the oxygen out of the private sector is. Most job creation comes from small businesses - Obamanomics is killing them off.

Greece and Venezuela are both emblematic of what Big Government Policies do to a country. Thinking we can do the same things and avoid a similar result is insane.
 
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boedicca

boedicca

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Socialism's goal is for everyone to fail equally, except for the elite ruling class who live well while everyone else experiences declining living standards.
 

Luissa

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I think you have to have some socialistic programs, kind of like our current system, which is not destroying the middle class. Moving manufactoring jobs to Mexico(middle class jobs) to other countries, is what is destroying this country. CEO's making 20 million a year, while paying their workers min wage, and not giving them health care, also helps. Taking bonuses, while laying off workers, is what is destroying our economy.
You guys bitch about unions, but have no problem with CEO's bleeding their companies dry so they can fly to play golf in Palm Springs.
 

Luissa

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Socialism's goal is for everyone to fail equally, except for the elite ruling class who live well while everyone else experiences declining living standards.
Yeah that is goal. :lol:

How about not letting war lords hold all the land and the rights, while the rest go poor?
And it isn't socialistic programs that are giving the elite more power in this country. It is rulngs like the Supreme Court made that are allowing it to happen, or people like siding with corporations, while they ship our jobs overseas.
 
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boedicca

boedicca

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Wrong. I don't support anyone Bleeding A Company Dry, including the Government.

The size of the Federal Government as a % of GDP has increased by 25% in one year (ObamaCare will shoot it past the 30% level). That's more bleeding than any cabal of CEOs have commited - and why the private sector is Not Creating Jobs.
 

DiamondDave

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I think you have to have some socialistic programs, kind of like our current system, which is not destroying the middle class. Moving manufactoring jobs to Mexico(middle class jobs) to other countries, is what is destroying this country. CEO's making 20 million a year, while paying their workers min wage, and not giving them health care, also helps. Taking bonuses, while laying off workers, is what is destroying our economy.
You guys bitch about unions, but have no problem with CEO's bleeding their companies dry so they can fly to play golf in Palm Springs.

I think that the government has no business in social programs/help programs... voluntary social programs set up by charities, religious organizations, etc are proper in a free society

Funny.. I don't think jobs move out because of us being a more free government system... it's exactly the opposite

So having the freedom to negotiate and get whatever compensation you can is a bad thing? Having the freedom to decide what you pay your employees is a bad thing? And if a high-priced CEO starts bringing a company down, that is part of the risk inherent in a freedom based system... But it's not for the government to dictate or limit because of some warped ideal of equalized outcome

Nobody is required to GIVE you health care in a free society, but you are more than free to make decisions, career choices, and do whatever you wish to advance yourself to negotiate what you want in compensation... and if the health care is not in the compensation package, you have the freedom to purchase it all on your own... or you have the freedom not to carry any and have a savings account to have your medical emergency fund... you have all kinds of choices in a free society
 
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boedicca

boedicca

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It is sad to see people defend socialist policies even when presented with the evidence of the vast amount of suffering they have cause in countries that are further along with the "experiment".
 
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Quelle Surprise!

Chavez's socialist policies in Venezuela are destroying its economy:

It's a common experience in Venezuela, where the economy contracted 3.3 percent in 2009 and is expected to shrink further this year. Few business owners see a rosy future, at least in the short term.

Jose Guerra, a former Central Bank economist, says state intervention in private businesses is hitting the economy hard.

"The government is nationalizing, expropriating, or confiscating," he says. "They are not creating new wealth; this is wealth that was already created."

If that weren't bad enough, another factor is hobbling the economy — an unprecedented energy crisis.

Critics say a lack of investment, coupled with government ineptitude, left Venezuela without the electrical generation capacity it needs. The government blames a brutal drought.

Whatever the reason, cities such as San Cristobal go dark every day — sometimes for four hours or more, as the government uses rolling blackouts to save energy.

On a recent morning at Zambrano auto works, the compressors and power painters come on after a blackout. Workers have been at a standstill for an hour, says Jesus Yanis, who paints cars. He adds that he expects the power to go out again later in the day, for another two hours.

The blackouts have hurt business, Yanis says. ...

Economic Woes Threaten Chavez's Socialist Vision : NPR


Yet more proof that eventually Socialism runs out of other people's money.

What?

Are you trying to say that a system which strips people of that which they've earned to redistribute it to those who did not... in effect discouraging productivity, personal innitiative and ambition is not sustainable and in practice is resulting in economy recession...

HOW IN THE HELL CAN THAT BE TRUE?

It goes against everything thats been taught as economic FACT to nearly the entire 3rd world for the best part of a last hundred years; on top of that... this completely refutes the ideas which have been advanced by the BRIGHTEST ECONOMIC MINDS IN THE WOOORRLD!

Of course it DOES correlate with basic common sense...

But it goes against the economic policy which is presently being employed to undermine and otherwise subvert the security of the Economies of the Western first world.
 
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I think you have to have some socialistic programs, kind of like our current system, which is not destroying the middle class. Moving manufactoring jobs to Mexico(middle class jobs) to other countries, is what is destroying this country. CEO's making 20 million a year, while paying their workers min wage, and not giving them health care, also helps. Taking bonuses, while laying off workers, is what is destroying our economy.
You guys bitch about unions, but have no problem with CEO's bleeding their companies dry so they can fly to play golf in Palm Springs.
Huh... So you're saying that outsourcing jobs overseas is what is destroying the middle class?

Yet... you're an advocate of socialism.

Oh man... this isn't good.

I mean here ya are declaring that Socialism is what is destroying the middle class, while you advocate for Socialism... and, one presumes you are AGAINST the destruction of the middle class.

Surely you'll agree that greedy corporations wouldn't go to all the trouble and expense of relocating their plants to overseas, if they weren't being FORCED TO DO SO.

The fact is that Corporations are comprised of human beings and human beings will, more often than not take the path of least resistance. Thus Corporations are doing the easiest thing they can to survive.

So with that being an incontrovertible trait of human nature, the only thing left to determine is WHAT has made transferring their operations overseas, easier than just keeping them here.

So... What would THAT BE?

Now some have postulated that when the cost of doing business HERE is close to or beyond the point of viability, the business will quite naturally go to the expense and trouble of moving to where the costs are less.

So since we've pretty well established that this is the reason that Corporations have taken to moving their operations overseas... all we have to decide is which of the two competing ideologies... Americanism and Socialism... lumped on MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF EXPONENTIALLY INCREASING LEVELS OF LIABILITY ONTO THE BUSINESS SECTOR IN THE NEVER ENDING PARADE OF PROGRAMS DESIGNED TO SECURE SOCIAL JUSTICE?

And I think that when we've worked our way through THAT discussion, that we'll find that what's killing the middle class is that freedom killing quest for Social Justice... OKA: SOCIALISM
 
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Old Rocks

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Wrong. I don't support anyone Bleeding A Company Dry, including the Government.

The size of the Federal Government as a % of GDP has increased by 25% in one year (ObamaCare will shoot it past the 30% level). That's more bleeding than any cabal of CEOs have commited - and why the private sector is Not Creating Jobs.
The private sector is not creating jobs because the trans-national corperations shipped our jobs overseas. And when their theivery becomes too obvious, they skip the country. Halliburton, Dubai.
 

Old Rocks

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Oh my, Pubic is back with his nonsense.

Pubic, Sudan has few taxes, and virtually no laws. Perfect country for you.
 
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boedicca

boedicca

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Yes, that's what Big Government wants you to think. They have made the cost of doing business so expensive in certain areas of the U.S., that multinationals have good reason to locate where their customers are.

There's also the aspect of markets. Given the large populations in the developing world (i.e., customers) that need jobs, countries such as China require location of domestic operations in order to sell into their markets.
 

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