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The reason Conservatives lie so much

tshrimp

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Right.
Who is doing that?
My 'due process' is going on 40 years now.
Here you go.
  • California — Allows family members to petition the court
  • Colorado (went into effect on January 1, 2020)
  • Connecticut — The first state to adopt a red flag law, Connecticut adopted the law in 1999. A state’s attorney or any two police officers may file a complaint.
  • Delaware
  • District of Columbia
  • Florida
  • Hawaii (went into effect on January 1, 2020) — In addition to law enforcement and family or household members, medical professionals, educators or colleagues may file a petition.
  • Illinois
  • Indiana
  • Maryland — In addition to law enforcement and family or household members, medical professionals are allowed to file petitions.
  • Massachusetts
  • Nevada (went into effect on January 1, 2020)
  • New Jersey
  • New Mexico (goes into effect on July 1 ,2020)
  • New York — In addition to law enforcement and family or household members, school administrators or their designees may file a petition.
  • Oregon
  • Rhode Island
  • Vermont
  • Virginia (goes into effect on July 1 ,2020)
  • Washington

One reason red flag laws are controversial is because, in some states, the person that is the subject of the order has no knowledge of the petition or order. Therefore, there is no ability to defend himself or herself against the accusation prior to the property being confiscated and losing the rights to purchase or possess firearms.

A person who has not committed a crime has his or her guns confiscated, seemingly in violation of the constitutional right to due process. There is typically a full hearing within 21 days, at which the subject of the order may present his or her own evidence or respond to any evidence presented.

There is also a concern regarding the opportunity for these petitions to be abused or “weaponized” by former partners or family members. Some states, like Rhode Island, have created penalties for providing false evidence. In addition, the subject of the order is presumed to be guilty and forced to go to court to prove his or her innocence.
Guilty until proven innocent is not the way the US legal system is supposed to work.

And let's not forget the NJ doctor who had a man's guns taken away because he left a bad review.
 

Smokin' OP

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Here you go.



Guilty until proven innocent is not the way the US legal system is supposed to work.

And let's not forget the NJ doctor who had a man's guns taken away because he left a bad review.
In the United States, a red flag law is a gun control law that permits police or family members to petition a state court to order the temporary removal of firearms from a person who may present a danger to others or themselves. A judge makes the determination to issue the order based on statements and actions made by the gun owner in question.
Refusal to comply with the order is punishable as a criminal offense. After a set time, the guns are returned to the person from whom they were seized unless another court hearing extends the period of confiscation.

Sounds like enough 'due process' to me.

Guilty until proven innocent is always the way the legal system has always worked.
DCF will remove a child from a home based on what a relative is saying.

A Shore-area lawyer and surgeon are asking a judge to keep guns out of the hands of a former patient in a test of New Jersey's new "red flag" law.

James Maggs, a Wall-based attorney for Dr. Matthew Kaufman and The Plastic Surgery Center in Shrewsbury, told state Superior Court Judge Paul X. Escandon Thursday that he received an increasingly agitated phone call from Alfred Conti, telling him he knew where they lived.

Why did he say that?
Was he going to bring the Dr. lunch?

Conti, 56, of Middletown, has said Kaufman performed surgery on his neck, but he remained in pain. Eventually, he was dismissed from the practice because, Maggs said, he became aggressive with the staff.

Aggressive to the Dr. and his staff?
Then got kicked out?

Sounds like a threat to me.
NOT because of a bad 'review'.
 

Mac1958

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Opposing Authoritarian Ideological Fundamentalism.
Most of them know they're lying, but they don't care because they're about power.
I'm not sure. I have several Trumpster clients, and when I look in their eyes, I see literal, abject fear. Many of them set meetings to come in and talk after Biden won. They are dead terrified that the commies are coming, that we're going to be Venezuela, that they're going to be sent to "camps" (?) and they're fucking panicked. I have to talk them down. It seems to work, but who knows what they're thinking 24 hours later, after another round of Tucker and Breitbart.

Now, is it possible that pundits and people in and close to politics know this is a scam, a Kabuki Theater? Yeah, I think that's definitely possible, especially the elected officials. But the rank & file? No, I think they believe all of it, and they're acting out because they're living in 24/7 fear.

I say it all the time: Trying to communicate with these people is like trying to communicate with a wild-eyed jihadi on the streets of Damascus.
 

tshrimp

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In the United States, a red flag law is a gun control law that permits police or family members to petition a state court to order the temporary removal of firearms from a person who may present a danger to others or themselves. A judge makes the determination to issue the order based on statements and actions made by the gun owner in question.
Refusal to comply with the order is punishable as a criminal offense. After a set time, the guns are returned to the person from whom they were seized unless another court hearing extends the period of confiscation.

Sounds like enough 'due process' to me.

Guilty until proven innocent is always the way the legal system has always worked.
DCF will remove a child from a home based on what a relative is saying.

A Shore-area lawyer and surgeon are asking a judge to keep guns out of the hands of a former patient in a test of New Jersey's new "red flag" law.

James Maggs, a Wall-based attorney for Dr. Matthew Kaufman and The Plastic Surgery Center in Shrewsbury, told state Superior Court Judge Paul X. Escandon Thursday that he received an increasingly agitated phone call from Alfred Conti, telling him he knew where they lived.

Why did he say that?
Was he going to bring the Dr. lunch?

Conti, 56, of Middletown, has said Kaufman performed surgery on his neck, but he remained in pain. Eventually, he was dismissed from the practice because, Maggs said, he became aggressive with the staff.

Aggressive to the Dr. and his staff?
Then got kicked out?

Sounds like a threat to me.
NOT because of a bad 'review'.
Exactly. Like I said, guns taken without due process. We don’t live in the days of Minority Report. And guilty until proven innocent is NOT the way it has always worked. Burden of proof is on the accuser...unless it is the red flag law where guns are taken away first and then you have to fight to get them back. That is not due process.
 
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Smokin' OP

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Exactly. Like I said, guns taken without due process. We don’t live in the days of Minority Report. And guilty until proven innocent is NOT the way it has always worked. Burden of proof is on the accuser...unless it is the red flag law where guns are taken away first and then you have to fight to get them back. That is not due process.
BS.
The moron was threatening the Dr. and his staff, his 'due process' ran the gamut as soon as he started threatening people.
' Burden of proof is on the accuser'?
That would be the cops showing up at his door.

Same thing with workplace shootings, they make threats, then come back and shoots everyone, you gonna give him his guns back, THEN take him to court?
 

j-mac

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The goal of every "conservative" is to dominate society and every individual in it. It appears that they believe that they are, for some reason, entitled to do so and substitute their own judgment for that of others. They also believe that they are somehow qualified for this role, more qualified than all of their fellow citizens who don't agree with them. It's no surprise that many of them probably believe the shit they spew while the more cynical among them don't, but do recognize that their fellow "conservatives' " gullibility is a powerful tool to help them achieve their objective of dominance. There is nothing like having an army of easily-manipulated useful idiots behind you.
The goal of every "liberal progressive" is to dominate society and every individual in it. It appears that they believe that they are, for some reason, entitled to do so and substitute their own judgment for that of others. They also believe that they are somehow qualified for this role, more qualified than all of their fellow citizens who don't agree with them. It's no surprise that many of them probably believe the shit they spew while the more cynical among them don't, but do recognize that their fellow "liberal progressives" gullibility is a powerful tool to help them achieve their objective of dominance. There is nothing like having an army of easily-manipulated useful idiots behind you.

This is the reality of your statement.
 

Lesh

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In the United States, a red flag law is a gun control law that permits police or family members to petition a state court to order the temporary removal of firearms from a person who may present a danger to others or themselves. A judge makes the determination to issue the order based on statements and actions made by the gun owner in question.
Refusal to comply with the order is punishable as a criminal offense. After a set time, the guns are returned to the person from whom they were seized unless another court hearing extends the period of confiscation.

Sounds like enough 'due process' to me.

Guilty until proven innocent is always the way the legal system has always worked.
DCF will remove a child from a home based on what a relative is saying.

A Shore-area lawyer and surgeon are asking a judge to keep guns out of the hands of a former patient in a test of New Jersey's new "red flag" law.

James Maggs, a Wall-based attorney for Dr. Matthew Kaufman and The Plastic Surgery Center in Shrewsbury, told state Superior Court Judge Paul X. Escandon Thursday that he received an increasingly agitated phone call from Alfred Conti, telling him he knew where they lived.

Why did he say that?
Was he going to bring the Dr. lunch?

Conti, 56, of Middletown, has said Kaufman performed surgery on his neck, but he remained in pain. Eventually, he was dismissed from the practice because, Maggs said, he became aggressive with the staff.

Aggressive to the Dr. and his staff?
Then got kicked out?

Sounds like a threat to me.
NOT because of a bad 'review'.
You couldn’t have picked a more perfect thread to debunk right wing lies on
 

MarcATL

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I'm not sure. I have several Trumpster clients, and when I look in their eyes, I see literal, abject fear. Many of them set meetings to come in and talk after Biden won. They are dead terrified that the commies are coming, that we're going to be Venezuela, that they're going to be sent to "camps" (?) and they're fucking panicked. I have to talk them down. It seems to work, but who knows what they're thinking 24 hours later, after another round of Tucker and Breitbart.

Now, is it possible that pundits and people in and close to politics know this is a scam, a Kabuki Theater? Yeah, I think that's definitely possible, especially the elected officials. But the rank & file? No, I think they believe all of it, and they're acting out because they're living in 24/7 fear.

I say it all the time: Trying to communicate with these people is like trying to communicate with a wild-eyed jihadi on the streets of Damascus.
The reason why I don't believe the rank and file is because they've always held these false beliefs, most of which have been proven to be false. Yet they keep returning to the well to gulp up these false beliefs.

They seek it out, so no, they aren't rubes, they're willing participants and they are dangerous.
 

buckeye45_73

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Nut jobs have been claiming 'They are a commin' fer my guns for 30 years now' when are they coming for mine?

Keep sending those checks to the NRA, Wayne needs a new pair of shoelaces.
So the left is pro gun? That's new to me........so what is the position on guns? I can't wait to hear this one.......
 

Smokin' OP

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So the left is pro gun? That's new to me........so what is the position on guns? I can't wait to hear this one.......
Yes, most own guns and have years/decades.
We just are able to hit what we aim at.
We don't need 60 rounds of ammo to wound a turtle.
 

buckeye45_73

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Yes, most own guns and have years/decades.
We just are able to hit what we aim at.
We don't need 60 rounds of ammo to wound a turtle.
Oh so it's just limiting clip size? You do know that the 2nd amendment was put in place for one reason...........and it wasn't hunting.........
 

Smokin' OP

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Oh so it's just limiting clip size? You do know that the 2nd amendment was put in place for one reason...........and it wasn't hunting.........
Yes.
In my book, if you need more than 5 rounds to kill something, it deserves to live, and you need an elementary shooting lesson.

'and it wasn't hunting.........'
Yes, it was.
They had hunters in mind when they put the 2nd amendment in place, hunter/farmers.
Who else was going to shoot the weapon?

Who do you think was their first, second, or third choice?
A blacksmith, a printer, an innkeeper, a tavern keeper or a baker.
 

buckeye45_73

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Yes.
In my book, if you need more than 5 rounds to kill something, it deserves to live, and you need an elementary shooting lesson.

'and it wasn't hunting.........'
Yes, it was.
They had hunters in mind when they put the 2nd amendment in place, hunter/farmers.
Who else was going to shoot the weapon?

Who do you think was their first, second, or third choice?
A blacksmith, a printer, an innkeeper, a tavern keeper or a baker.
Dipshit, the 2nd amendment wasn't put in for hunting.........you really don't know anything about that period do you? It's in the Bill of Rights........notice what the rest of the Bill of Rights do........try and think of a common thread......I know you can......

And none of them had to do with professions, hobbies, ect.......
 

Smokin' OP

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Dipshit, the 2nd amendment wasn't put in for hunting.........you really don't know anything about that period do you? It's in the Bill of Rights........notice what the rest of the Bill of Rights do........try and think of a common thread......I know you can......

And none of them had to do with professions, hobbies, ect.......
Who do you think the militia consisted of, moron?
Were they hunting deer, hogs, squirrels, birds?
No, idiot.......................they were hunting HUMANS.
 

buckeye45_73

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Who do you think the militia consisted of, moron?
Were they hunting deer, hogs, squirrels, birds?
No, idiot.......................they were hunting HUMANS.
They consisted of regular folks in the area........to defend them selves, their property and the area from horrible people...........
 

Smokin' OP

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They consisted of regular folks in the area........to defend them selves, their property and the area from horrible people...........
Correct, the farmers were the prevalent occupation in those times, and they did hunt for their families.
 

tshrimp

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BS.
The moron was threatening the Dr. and his staff, his 'due process' ran the gamut as soon as he started threatening people.
' Burden of proof is on the accuser'?
That would be the cops showing up at his door.

Same thing with workplace shootings, they make threats, then come back and shoots everyone, you gonna give him his guns back, THEN take him to court?
Ignore the Dr. example. Although I would like to get back to that as some point, as that conversation was captured. Let's focus on the Red Flag law.

With Red Flag laws guns are taken away first and then you have to fight to get them back. That is not due process....period (and not an Obama "period"). With this law you don't have to commit any crime at all, yet you can have a loss of your rights. You have to fight to get that right back without having even committed a crime. What other rights are you okay with being taken away BEFORE a crime is committed? BTW...I have a good movie I think you would like.


Edit:
This guy supports you. He also took guns without due process as well.
1632236321993.png
 
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