U2Edge
Gold Member
- Sep 15, 2012
- 5,342
- 1,259
- 130
- Thread starter
- #161
[
Wait a minute. Now you want to argue that the Iraq War was necessary because we needed to take out Saddam BEFORE he amassed WMD's?
lol, doesn't that make the argument that invading North Korea was/is necessary BEFORE North Korea gets nukes?
You think it was wrong to wait until, if ever, Saddam got, for example, nuclear WMD's,
but, you think it's perfectly fine to wait until North Korea gets nukes, which they probably already have.
That's funny.
Want to talk about Iran now? And their nuclear program, and why invading Iran should be considered necessary by someone like you???
Here is a little lesson for you to explain what makes Iraq different from the other cases. I've mentioned these all before, but since you don't remember, don't comprehend or didn't read it to begin with, here they are:
1. Saddam's Iraq invaded and attack four different countries while Saddam was in power!
North Korea by contrast has not invaded another country since 1950, plus it was done just after Korea was divided between North and South.
2. Saddam annexed Kuwait, the first leader to annex another country since Adolf Hitler did it in the 1940s!
North Korea has never annexed another country!
3. Saddam fired Ballistic Missiles at multiple different countries.
North Korea has never fired Ballistic Missiles at any country!
4. Saddam has used WMD more times than any leader since World War I on foreign countries and his own people.
North Korea has WMD, but has never used it!
5. Saddam's Iraq sits in close proximity to much of the worlds vital energy supply. The seizure and sabotage of such energy supply could cause a devastating economic Depression.
North Korea is hundreds if not thousands of miles from any major energy resources.
6. Saddam's Iraq was in violation of 15 UN Security Council Resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules of the United Nations which allow for the use of force to bring about compliance.
North Korea is not in violation of any UN Security Council Resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules of the United Nations.
7. Saddam's Iraq has violated multiple times and in multiple way the 1991 Ceasefire Agreement for the Gulf War. This Ceasefire agreement authorized UN members to use military force if Saddam violated the agreement. The Ceasefire agreement required Iraq to abandon its WMD programs, both weapons and the ability to produce such weapons, as well as paying reperations to Kuwait for the demage they did to the country. Saddam's Iraq failed to do either.
While North Korea has violated the Korean War ceasefire, there is no authorization for military force from UN members to bring about compliance with the ceasefire or to rectify any violations. In addition, North Korea is not required under the cease fire to not have any particular types of weapons.
8. Saddam's Iraq has had all kinds of different types of WMD and has used them multiple times killing thousands of people. North Korea, has WMD, but has never used them. France, the United Kingdom, China, Russia, Israel, Syria, and many other countries around the world also have WMD. Simply having WMD is not the reason for taking military action against another country. Its the having WMD, using it, especially in ways that grossly violate human rights, which make it a serious threat to the international community requiring military action. Again, the key here is Saddam's behavior plus WMD weapons or past WMD capability as well as the means to produce it again which make military action a necessity.
9. Saddam's Iraq was under a large sanctions and weapons embargo in order to contain him. This sanctions and weapons embargo began to collapse allow Saddam to sell oil in the black market and obtain weapons and materials for WMD freely.
North Korea has never been under such a sanctions and weapons embargo and receives large scale aid from China and Russia in addition to buying weapons. They often receive food aid from the United States, South Korea and Japan.
10. Saddam's Iraq was ordered to disband all of its WMD programs in 1991 by the UN. It was also ordered to destroy all stocks of WMD, Chemical, Biological. It was under no circumstances allowed to develop Nuclear related energy or actual weapons. North Koreas was never placed under such restrictions and its possession of chemical and biological weapons is not in violation of any UN security Council resolutions passed under chapter VII rules, just as the United Kingdom and France are not violation of any UN security council resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules. of the UN.
11. It is Saddam's passed behavior plus possession of WMD or WMD related programs or the potential for build WMD which make make regime removal NECESSARY unlike with North Korea or Iran! North Korea has actually had nuclear weapons since 1994 and has had chemical and biological weapons since the 1970s. Its only in recent years that they have exploded nuclear devices for test purposes.
12. Finally war with North Korea would likely mean war with China with all the costly consequences that would entail. In addition Seoul South Korea has a population of 10 million people within artillery range of the DMZ. Millions of people would become casualties within the first few months of any conflict.
None of that makes the case that war was necessary. You can repeat bullshit as many times as you like but it's still bullshit.
It explains why Saddam's Iraq is a far different situation than North Korea. Apparently, you didn't read it.
Because of Iraq's brutal invasion, occupation and annexation of Kuwait in 1990, the United States and other countries, then UN, passed a number of resolutions against Iraq sanctioning them and ordering them to get out, and threatening military action if they failed to comply. Iraq failed to comply and the 1991 Gulf War started. Iraq's forces were defeated and pushed out. Saddam's actions and potention future actions were a grave threat to the global economy given that much of the worlds energy supplies is in Kuwait and northern Saudi Arabia and the sudden loss of that supplies would cause a world collapsing Economic Depression. A ceasefire was signed in which Iraq agreed to multiple conditions. In lieu of actually removing Saddam in 1991, the coalition put a large scale sanctions and weapons embargo in place to contain him and also launched limited military strikes year after year, and place a no fly zone in the north and a no fly zone in the south of Iraq. This was the containment strategy and was done in the hopes that it could succeed as the only alternative to it was invading Iraq and removing Saddam. But after 12 years, the strategy had failed, and the key components of containment, the sanctions and the weapons embargo had fallen apart. Saddam was not able to sell billions of dollars worth of oil on the black market and could begin rebuilding the huge military force that he once had at the end of the 1980s. With containment option gone, the only option to deal with Saddam was invasion and regime removal. Waiting to do that would only allow Saddam to grow stronger and would mean a far more costly invasion. So the decision to invade and remove Saddam was made in early 2003 as it remained the only effective way to deal with Saddam, plus doing in now rather than later would save lives and cost less money. That briefly explains why removing Saddam had become a necessity. My last post explained why North Korea is a completely different situation from Iraq!