The pre-mortal existence

[onefour1]

When Jesus came upon a man who was blind from his birth, the disciples asked the Lord a question. This is recorded in the gospel of John.

John 9:1-3
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

For the Apostles to believe that the blind man could have sinned in order that he was born blind, they must have believed that the man existed before he was born. Jesus did not teach them that their belief in a pre-mortal life was wrong but simple stated that the man did not sin but that he was born blind so that the works of God could be made manifest.

The word of the Lord came unto the prophet Jeremiah saying:

Jeremiah 1:5
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

In this verse Jeremiah was called and chosen to be a prophet before God ever formed him in the belly and before he came forth out of the womb.

The Lord spoke in this manner to Job:

Job 38:1-7
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

In this verse the Lord tells us that at the time when He created the earth, that the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy.

In Proverbs we read about wisdom and how its delights were with the sons of men on God's earth.

Proverbs 8:22-31
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

In Ecclesiastes we read that when man dies his spirit will return unto God:

Ecclesiastes 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The Book of Revelation tells us that Michael and his angels who fought against the dragon in the war in heaven eventually came down to earth and had to rely upon the blood of the atonement to overcome Satan and died a mortal death.

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

You only need the blood of the lamb if you are a sinner and you are mortal. You only die if you are a mortal. Michael and his angels were sons of God who fought in the war in heaven. They eventually came to this earth as mortal men and overcame Satan by the blood of the Lamb and loved not their lives unto the death.

Angels are not separate beings from mankind but are those who have come or will come to this earth as mortal men. We all existed before coming to this earth and we all were valiant in the war in heaven. Those who sided with Satan were denied the opportunity to receive a body in this world. Our life in the pre-mortal existence is also known as our first estate. We all were successful in our first estate. Satan and his followers were not successful and are mentioned by Jude:

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Ephesians 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You've misinterpreted scripture or you're being taught false doctrine. Are you a Mormon?

 

[whoisit]

We are the fallen angels, is this posible? Of course it is and there are many verses that point in that direction. Didn't God say in the end days knowledge will be increased? Both the old and new testiments have verses that could be saying we are the those who followed lucifer then agreed to take on mortal bodies to get back with God.

But if anyone is certain they have the truth and have figured out the bible then he or she is among 500 other different sects of Chrisitanity that think they too have all the answers and the truth. This is why christiasn kill eah other because of their fals pride although 99.99% of us have never followed all the ruels because its impossible.

 

[onefour1]

You've misinterpreted scripture or you're being taught false doctrine. Are you a Mormon?

I believe you are gravely mistaken. Yes, I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

[onefour1]

We are the fallen angels, is this posible? Of course it is and there are many verses that point in that direction. Didn't God say in the end days knowledge will be increased? Both the old and new testiments have verses that could be saying we are the those who followed lucifer then agreed to take on mortal bodies to get back with God.

But if anyone is certain they have the truth and have figured out the bible then he or she is among 500 other different sects of Chrisitanity that think they too have all the answers and the truth. This is why christiasn kill eah other because of their fals pride although 99.99% of us have never followed all the ruels because its impossible.

Fallen angels were denied the privilege of receiving bodies of flesh and bones. Fort his reason many of them attempt to possess our bodies. Jesus cast out the evil spirits from one man who was possessed of evil spirits.

Mark 5:1-12
1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.
14 And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.
15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
16 And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.
17 And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.
18 And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.
19 Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.

If you have a body, you can rest assure that you were among the righteous in the war in heaven.

 

[whoisit]

Too tired to get into this now. I can tell by your reply already this is goign nowhere anyway, but I have a worried mind from real bad news this month about a wayward granddaughter. I'm spending too much time online. America left God and he has left us and things are bad for the young here in Sodom and Gomorrah Babalon hellhole.

 

[onefour1]

I'm sorry to hear about your granddaughter. I hope things go well for you. May the Lord bless you in your life.

 

[whoisit]

The youth in this nation has never been so bad off in so many ways. Blacks,whites,chinese ,latinios all are in a nation that has turned on them.

But I do hope we can debate the subject of the thread tomorrow or whenever. I'm not sure but it makes sense in some ways. Its the closest thing to truth 'imo' I've found yet.

 

[Campbell]

You've misinterpreted scripture or you're being taught false doctrine. Are you a Mormon?

He's as fucked up as any human I've ever read anything from.

 

[onefour1]

The reason modern Christendom cannot accept the doctrine of pre-mortal existence is due to a false doctrine known as Ex Nihilo Creation. The video series that I have found that shows the fallacies of this false doctrine best, can be found here:



For the full video series go to this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWsQiyc832k&index=1&list=PLbpyH--hzXKWn2jm8BClH9MxxLwwWnAea

 

[HaShev]

We are the fallen angels, is this posible? Of course it is and there are many verses that point in that direction.

In the Judaic precept yes, because
malakh(angel) means reflective messenger.
And yes it warned those who'd follow the first fallen arch(top)messenger would fall with him, even the NT accounts 1/3 the messengers would fall for the first fallen one and that 1/3 The Fish would perish in the sea(Rome), in which case the early sect did die in Rome's territory and they were and are called the fish which were lured by the serpent (false prophet) and his bride(the church=Eve the second bride of Adam=man )

So yes the teachers of this compiled image made a god are the fallen messengers teaching another message then the Torah. If he was Moshiach you'd all be feeding off the Torah not pagan mythology and Egyptian and Babylonian mysticsm.

 

[onefour1]

All those who were valiant in the pre-mortal existence come to earth and receive a body. This is a blessing from God. Those who were not valiant cannot receive a body and for this reason they at times attempt to possess the bodies of those who were valiant. The resurrection of the dead is the continuation of the body united with the spirit. Jesus Christ himself was resurrect as will all those who have a body in this life. All will be blessed with immortality. After Jesus was crucified he was resurrected on the third day:

Luke 24:36-41
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Not only was Jesus resurrected but he became immortal. In other words, he would never die again.

Revelation 1:18
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Through the resurrection of Jesus, all those who come to this life and receive a body will be resurrected and receive immortality.

Acts 24:15
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

1 Corinthians 15:22
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:53-54
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

From this we see that mankind who receive bodies in this life will receive the free gift of resurrection unto immortality to live forever in their bodies. But those who rebelled against God in his presence in their first estate will never receive a bodily temple that their spirit may dwell in.

 

[onefour1]

It stands to reason that if God, who is all powerful, all knowing, and an all loving being, were an ex nihilo creator, and was capable of creating us out of absolute nothingness, then he should have created us to be perfect. If God is truly all powerful in the sense that he can create out of absolute nothingness, then certainly he would have had the power to create us perfect. If he is all knowing, then he certainly would have known how to do it. And if God is an all loving being, then he certainly would have made us perfect out of love for us. So why didn't he make us perfect? Why does he allow evil in the world? Why, with God's foreknowledge, would he create Satan and allow evil in the universe?

If ex nihilo creation were a true principle, then God could have created all of us with a perfect knowledge and understanding of right and wrong. He could have given all of us a heart that would only desire to do that which is good continually. He could have given our free will but with the character traits he created us with, we would only desire to choose to do the right. With God's total control in deciding what we should be like when creating us, he could have and should have created us all to be perfect. So why didn't He do it?

The reason is because ex nihilo creation is a false concept about God.

 

[tyroneweaver]

You've misinterpreted scripture or you're being taught false doctrine. Are you a Mormon?

Ya and if you can prove to me from the Bible God is triune, I'll join your church.

 

[onefour1]

Revelation in these latter-days teaches us that man was not created ex nihilo but existed as intelligences that were not created or made and neither indeed can be.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Abraham 3:18
18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

Modern revelation also reveals that the elements are eternal as well, and that spirit and element inseparably connected receive a fullness of joy.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:33-34
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;
34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.

What these verses are telling us is that we have, in one form or another, always existed as intelligences. There was never a time in the infinite past that we did not exist. At some point God took us as intelligence and combined us with spiritual matter and we became spirit beings having the same image and likeness as God. That process is procreation. All of us are his children. We all have a divine heritage. We receive more joy by being organized with the elements.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:7
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

Acts 17:27-29
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

As eternal beings that have always existed, God did not create us ex nihilo but created us by organizing our eternal intelligence with spirit matter and then afterward on this earth with physical matter originating from the dust of the earth.

Moses 3:7
7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.

Genesis 3:19
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Because of the eternal nature of man, it was not possible for God to create man ex nihilo. But man in his eternal state was not perfect. It was God's desire that man should become like God. God is a being of perfect free will. Nobody tells God what to do. This means that in order for God to be perfect, he must choose to be good continually. Thus for mankind to become like God, they too must have free will and learn to choose good over evil. God is who he is because of his internal character and not because someone is forcing him to be that way. For man to become more like God, we too must develop our inner character through free will and a change of heart. Thus free will is an essential component in God's plan of salvation.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

3 Nephi 12:48
48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:30-31
30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.
31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.

Because man could not be created out of nothing and a part of man is eternal in nature, God could not simply create man to be perfect. He has to teach mankind through faith and free will to choose good over evil. This is the reason that evil exists on earth and why Lucifer rebelled against the Father. It is because free will is an eternal principle and man is not, in his current state, perfect. Imperfect man has been placed on this earth and had his pre-mortal existence memory covered for awhile. This is so that he will make choices of his own volition and not rely on the pure knowledge that he had before of God's true nature and existence when in his pre-mortal life. Mankind is here to become more like God by learning to choose good over evil in and of themselves.

Doctrine and Covenants 59:23
23 But learn that he who doeth the works of righteousness shall receive his reward, even peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come.

 

[Ozone]

''doctrines'' and ''covenants'' are why people should avoid religion. just sayin'