The Pope takes back his Church

[Derideo_Te]

Do not make enough money at your job?
Get a second job.
Or a third.
Or steal your Granny's social security check.
I am tired of hearing you cry like a baby about it.

Who's crying? This is a time to rejoice!

[...]People are happy that a MAN with a following that adds up to several millions in our country alone, and for the first time in our lifetimes, DIRECTLY identified, challenged, and found wanting the hand basket makers that led SO many to be living a hell on this earth. Moreover, he advocates and LIVES a better way of doing things. Even those of us who live secular lives and /or prefer secular governments (which appeals to a crossover demographic, as even much of the religious amongst us prefer that our own, or heaven forbid some other brand, doesn't dictate our lives via the state) appreciate the idea that a personage with such a platform and voice landed solidly and publicly on the side of sweet reason.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...slams-trickle-down-economics.html#post8234596

LMFAO. The side of sweet reason? "In your economic vision, people don't help each other enough" is not a statement of logic. It's one of morality. Please learn the difference.

There is a "moral" basis for NOT paying people a living wage with benefits for full time work?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Who's crying? This is a time to rejoice!



http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...slams-trickle-down-economics.html#post8234596

LMFAO. The side of sweet reason? "In your economic vision, people don't help each other enough" is not a statement of logic. It's one of morality. Please learn the difference.

There is a "moral" basis for NOT paying people a living wage with benefits for full time work?

If there isn't then you don't have a moral objection to corporations not providing contraception.

 

[Trajan]

What a shame.

The nations that are the most Socialist and practice government enforced redistribution are the world poorest.

The USA became the most prosperous nation on the planet because we tried something new and different and totally aligned with the teaching of Christ

Do you seriously believe that Jesus would condone making a profit off of a sick child that bankrupts a family?

and the lord said- read the fine print......


the 1:00 minute mark

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9GE9P56tK4o#t=60]Ride On - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Who's crying? This is a time to rejoice!



http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...slams-trickle-down-economics.html#post8234596

LMFAO. The side of sweet reason? "In your economic vision, people don't help each other enough" is not a statement of logic. It's one of morality. Please learn the difference.

There is a "moral" basis for NOT paying people a living wage with benefits for full time work?

No, there is -no- moral basis for it. If you couldn't gather from what I'm saying, I'm describing applying your morals to everyone's economic actions via government as something I regard negatively. Just because your morals don't necessarily have a God figure dishing them out to you doesn't mean they're any more relevant to anyone else than Christian morals. Why is forcing me to abide by your "everybody should be forced to help everybody" moral any better than outlawing homosexual marriage?

Anyway, what I'm saying isn't that there's "good morals" behind not paying someone a "living wage". What I'm saying is **** the morals. If you own a company, offer compensation that you feel the job is worth. If you pay too little and nobody competent applies, sorry bout your luck.

What I'm saying is also, on the flip side, that your statement that all full time jobs should pay a "living wage" (which is a loaded way to put it when what you really mean is, "as much money as is necessary to appropriate the things that I feel in my heart everyone should have") -is- based purely in morality and not in logic or fact.

Why? Let's take an example.

If I hired you because I needed fries dropped in a grease basket repeatedly and you were willing to do it for 40 hours a week, I sure as **** wouldn't pay you enough to raise a family of four. Why, you ask? The reason is that cooking french fries for 40 hours a week doesn't generate enough profit to raise a family of four, and ultimately as a business owner I'm looking to be able to pay you and -still- make money for me. Thus, working for someone else, you will -never- be paid more than what your position generates economically. If you are, and it's not because of special considerations, just a routine practice of your employer. . . .you'll be out lookin for work before long.

The only reasons you could give me that an employer should pay you more than what your job is worth (and I hate to break it to you, but there's a lot of full time positions out there that don't generate nearly enough to feed a family) are based in your morals.

Based in your morals implies values that are -purely- objective. Essentially, your opinion.

Why should I be forced to live by the standards inherent to -your- opinion? What makes yours superior to mine?

And when did American liberalism stray so far from live and let live? Now it's live and let live as long as everybody's living in a manner that I find appropriate. Just as bad as the overbearing asshole portions of the Christian demographic that you folks love to demonize (except when a leader in said religion applies ancient dogma to economics, which seems to be right up your alley).

 

[Gadawg73]

I am filling up today at RaceTrac in Alpharetta, Ga. Dude in a beater 90s Civic comes up and asks me for a gallon of gas. Has 3 kids and the wife in the car.
NO

 

[Avatar4321]

You missed the point, he always wants his morals imposed on others, which is why he always whinges about other people imposing their morals whenever the discussion turns to moral issues, it saves hi from trying to justify his position.

Oh, I know, that's why I asked for some logical explanation. Of course, I didn't get one.

Only those who know how to engage in "civil discourse" deserve a response.

If we all held your standard, no one would be talking to you.

 

[Avatar4321]

Who's crying? This is a time to rejoice!



http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...slams-trickle-down-economics.html#post8234596

LMFAO. The side of sweet reason? "In your economic vision, people don't help each other enough" is not a statement of logic. It's one of morality. Please learn the difference.

There is a "moral" basis for NOT paying people a living wage with benefits for full time work?

In order for there to be a moral basis to paying people a living wage, there would have to be a living wage to pay them. There is no such thing. It's a unicorn. Some ultimate goal you've dreamed up that can never be accomplished.

Why you ask? Simple. Because everyone is different. And everyone needs a different amount of money to live. They have different needs. And if you did ever agree to the amount for a living wage, you would quickly find that the market has inflated and people can't live off that amount of money.

In my opinion, it's incredibly immoral to treat all people the same with some one size fits all government solution. People suffer when you treat them as the same rather than as individuals.

 

[Barb]

Do not make enough money at your job?
Get a second job.
Or a third.
Or steal your Granny's social security check.
I am tired of hearing you cry like a baby about it.

Who's crying? This is a time to rejoice!

[...]People are happy that a MAN with a following that adds up to several millions in our country alone, and for the first time in our lifetimes, DIRECTLY identified, challenged, and found wanting the hand basket makers that led SO many to be living a hell on this earth. Moreover, he advocates and LIVES a better way of doing things. Even those of us who live secular lives and /or prefer secular governments (which appeals to a crossover demographic, as even much of the religious amongst us prefer that our own, or heaven forbid some other brand, doesn't dictate our lives via the state) appreciate the idea that a personage with such a platform and voice landed solidly and publicly on the side of sweet reason.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...slams-trickle-down-economics.html#post8234596

LMFAO. The side of sweet reason? "In your economic vision, people don't help each other enough" is not a statement of logic. It's one of morality. Please learn the difference.

Ethics and logic are not mutually exclusive, please read a book. In the Pope's economic vision, governments shouldn't be rigged to create a permanent underclass that serve their whole lives as serfs to prop up the profits of a few privileged slackers at the top.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Who's crying? This is a time to rejoice!



http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...slams-trickle-down-economics.html#post8234596

LMFAO. The side of sweet reason? "In your economic vision, people don't help each other enough" is not a statement of logic. It's one of morality. Please learn the difference.

Ethics and logic are not mutually exclusive, please read a book. In the Pope's economic vision, governments shouldn't be rigged to create a permanent underclass that serve their whole lives as serfs to prop up the profits of a few privileged slackers at the top.

If you believed in that you would join me in fighting against government.

 

[Barb]

LMFAO. The side of sweet reason? "In your economic vision, people don't help each other enough" is not a statement of logic. It's one of morality. Please learn the difference.

Ethics and logic are not mutually exclusive, please read a book. In the Pope's economic vision, governments shouldn't be rigged to create a permanent underclass that serve their whole lives as serfs to prop up the profits of a few privileged slackers at the top.

If you believed in that you would join me in fighting against government.

I don't want to fight government - I want to make it work properly. To me, one way to achieve that is to stop electing people to the job who want it NOT to.

 

[elektra]

Who's crying? This is a time to rejoice!



http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...slams-trickle-down-economics.html#post8234596

LMFAO. The side of sweet reason? "In your economic vision, people don't help each other enough" is not a statement of logic. It's one of morality. Please learn the difference.

Ethics and logic are not mutually exclusive, please read a book. In the Pope's economic vision, governments shouldn't be rigged to create a permanent underclass that serve their whole lives as serfs to prop up the profits of a few privileged slackers at the top.

So maybe we should have term limits so that the Democrats can not prop up the profits of the slackers in Green Energy and everything else while they kill jobs for everyone else.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ethics and logic are not mutually exclusive, please read a book. In the Pope's economic vision, governments shouldn't be rigged to create a permanent underclass that serve their whole lives as serfs to prop up the profits of a few privileged slackers at the top.

If you believed in that you would join me in fighting against government.

I don't want to fight government - I want to make it work properly. To me, one way to achieve that is to stop electing people to the job who want it NOT to.

Work properly according to whom?

It is not government's job to steal from the rich to give to the poor. Even Robin Hood understood that wouldn't work, which is why he stole from the government.

 

[Barb]

LMFAO. The side of sweet reason? "In your economic vision, people don't help each other enough" is not a statement of logic. It's one of morality. Please learn the difference.

Ethics and logic are not mutually exclusive, please read a book. In the Pope's economic vision, governments shouldn't be rigged to create a permanent underclass that serve their whole lives as serfs to prop up the profits of a few privileged slackers at the top.

So maybe we should have term limits so that the Democrats can not prop up the profits of the slackers in Green Energy and everything else while they kill jobs for everyone else.

I have a better idea - lets get rid of the house republicans who killed every jobs bill that ever came to their desks to die.

 

[Barb]

If you believed in that you would join me in fighting against government.

I don't want to fight government - I want to make it work properly. To me, one way to achieve that is to stop electing people to the job who want it NOT to.

Work properly according to whom?

It is not government's job to steal from the rich to give to the poor. Even Robin Hood understood that wouldn't work, which is why he stole from the government.

Taxing those who (and what) profit most from the very systems that foster their success is not "theft," it is the dues they should pay for services rendered.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Who's crying? This is a time to rejoice!



http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...slams-trickle-down-economics.html#post8234596

LMFAO. The side of sweet reason? "In your economic vision, people don't help each other enough" is not a statement of logic. It's one of morality. Please learn the difference.

Ethics and logic are not mutually exclusive, please read a book. In the Pope's economic vision, governments shouldn't be rigged to create a permanent underclass that serve their whole lives as serfs to prop up the profits of a few privileged slackers at the top.

First off, whether a virtually free market system of economics, particularly the sort that America has traditionally used, can really be credited for harming the lower and middle class is arguable. It's less arguable to say that every other system of economics -has- shown, throughout history, that, at the very least, they don't eliminate the lower class. So, at the very least, you can't say that a system resulting in a few privelaged at the top and most people being significantly less than those few in terms of power can exclusively be attributed to American style capitalism.

In fact, what you can't help but acknowlege is that, via our economic system and the advances in technology that happened right here in this country, America created a larger middle class and a more well-off impoverished class than any form of society prior could hold a candle to.

Next, ethics and logic aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, no. I agree there. When the practical value of your morals are arguable -at best-, however, and those morals are the entire premise of your argument, then no, your argument is not one of logic. Thanks for playing

 

[Newby]

LMFAO. The side of sweet reason? "In your economic vision, people don't help each other enough" is not a statement of logic. It's one of morality. Please learn the difference.

There is a "moral" basis for NOT paying people a living wage with benefits for full time work?

No, there is -no- moral basis for it. If you couldn't gather from what I'm saying, I'm describing applying your morals to everyone's economic actions via government as something I regard negatively. Just because your morals don't necessarily have a God figure dishing them out to you doesn't mean they're any more relevant to anyone else than Christian morals. Why is forcing me to abide by your "everybody should be forced to help everybody" moral any better than outlawing homosexual marriage?

Anyway, what I'm saying isn't that there's "good morals" behind not paying someone a "living wage". What I'm saying is **** the morals. If you own a company, offer compensation that you feel the job is worth. If you pay too little and nobody competent applies, sorry bout your luck.

What I'm saying is also, on the flip side, that your statement that all full time jobs should pay a "living wage" (which is a loaded way to put it when what you really mean is, "as much money as is necessary to appropriate the things that I feel in my heart everyone should have") -is- based purely in morality and not in logic or fact.

Why? Let's take an example.

If I hired you because I needed fries dropped in a grease basket repeatedly and you were willing to do it for 40 hours a week, I sure as **** wouldn't pay you enough to raise a family of four. Why, you ask? The reason is that cooking french fries for 40 hours a week doesn't generate enough profit to raise a family of four, and ultimately as a business owner I'm looking to be able to pay you and -still- make money for me. Thus, working for someone else, you will -never- be paid more than what your position generates economically. If you are, and it's not because of special considerations, just a routine practice of your employer. . . .you'll be out lookin for work before long.

The only reasons you could give me that an employer should pay you more than what your job is worth (and I hate to break it to you, but there's a lot of full time positions out there that don't generate nearly enough to feed a family) are based in your morals.

Based in your morals implies values that are -purely- objective. Essentially, your opinion.

Why should I be forced to live by the standards inherent to -your- opinion? What makes yours superior to mine?

And when did American liberalism stray so far from live and let live? Now it's live and let live as long as everybody's living in a manner that I find appropriate. Just as bad as the overbearing asshole portions of the Christian demographic that you folks love to demonize (except when a leader in said religion applies ancient dogma to economics, which seems to be right up your alley).

Excellent post, wish I could rep you again. I've asked the same question many times, but they are incapable of answering it because there isn't a logical answer to it. The origin of ones morals shouldn't be determining whether or not they're valid or enforcible by government. They latch onto the 'separation of church and state' as the basis for why their morals are enforcable via government force while others are not. And they're beyond being able to understand ecomonic principles, reason, or logic. It's ironic since they sit in their glass houses being guilty of exactly what they accuse Christians of on a daily basis.

 

[Newby]

Oh, I know, that's why I asked for some logical explanation. Of course, I didn't get one.

Only those who know how to engage in "civil discourse" deserve a response.

If we all held your standard, no one would be talking to you.

She's a waste of time, all she knows is insults, she wouldn't know what 'civil discourse' was if it slapped her upside the head.

 

[elektra]

Ethics and logic are not mutually exclusive, please read a book. In the Pope's economic vision, governments shouldn't be rigged to create a permanent underclass that serve their whole lives as serfs to prop up the profits of a few privileged slackers at the top.

So maybe we should have term limits so that the Democrats can not prop up the profits of the slackers in Green Energy and everything else while they kill jobs for everyone else.

I have a better idea - lets get rid of the house republicans who killed every jobs bill that ever came to their desks to die.

I don't want to fight government - I want to make it work properly. To me, one way to achieve that is to stop electing people to the job who want it NOT to.

Work properly according to whom?

It is not government's job to steal from the rich to give to the poor. Even Robin Hood understood that wouldn't work, which is why he stole from the government.

Taxing those who (and what) profit most from the very systems that foster their success is not "theft," it is the dues they should pay for services rendered.

The Government does not foster success, the Government stands in the way by demanding "toll" (like a troll). When the Government demands fees and taxes upfront to start a business that is a hindrance to business. The Government is mandating expensive electrical power plants like wind and solar while taxing, fining, legislating, the inexpensive sources of power which does the opposite of "fostering success".

Congress has no business passing "Jobs bills", Congress needs to enact one transparent tax that is not a burden on society, Congress needs to quit guaranteeing 30 year loans on homes which makes it burden to find a place to live.

Congress is in the way of life, try and marry someone from another country, you will have to pay the government thousands of dollars.

Congress hinders every aspect of our lives.

 

[Gadawg73]

Ethics and logic are not mutually exclusive, please read a book. In the Pope's economic vision, governments shouldn't be rigged to create a permanent underclass that serve their whole lives as serfs to prop up the profits of a few privileged slackers at the top.

So maybe we should have term limits so that the Democrats can not prop up the profits of the slackers in Green Energy and everything else while they kill jobs for everyone else.

I have a better idea - lets get rid of the house republicans who killed every jobs bill that ever came to their desks to die.

You believe politicians create jobs?

 

[Avatar4321]

Ethics and logic are not mutually exclusive, please read a book. In the Pope's economic vision, governments shouldn't be rigged to create a permanent underclass that serve their whole lives as serfs to prop up the profits of a few privileged slackers at the top.

If you believed in that you would join me in fighting against government.

I don't want to fight government - I want to make it work properly. To me, one way to achieve that is to stop electing people to the job who want it NOT to.

So you voted against Obama? I'm alittle skeptical of that.

BTW The way the government will work properly with health care is to get the heck out of it.