CDZ The Party of Trump will be Gone some Day, what then?

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

The problem is Trump is blaming China for losses of American Manufacturing jobs because white guys in corner offices like him decided it would be cheaper to do manufacuting there.

IMHO the problem is, Trump is not treated as an intrepid warrior for doing what Obama and Bush43 and Clinton were all afraid to do;

Exactly blame China, since the trade war is about something far, far bigger than "losses of American Manufacturing jobs": https://www.voltairenet.org/article197864.html

In fact, when "white guys in corner offices like Trump decide its cheaper to do manufacuting there" it really has very little to do with this one reality, called BRICs nations.

Yes BRICs nations is a group which China leads, and they are into their 2nd decade of vehemently trying to destroy the USD and I reiterate that that is more colossal than mfg. jobs that have been shipped overseas.

 

[Decus]

I didn't vote for Trump but do support him and it has to do with his approach to China, (among other issues) who to this point has chosen to unilaterally claim territory in Tibet, on the border with India and more importantly, islands far from its coast in the China Sea. Incarcerating a million or more of its citizens, bullying neighboring countries, and exploiting Africa are further examples of unacceptable actions.

Okay. None of that has anything to do with us. If the Chinese are willing to expend their resources in Africa or the South CHINA Sea, it's not our problem.

The problem is Trump is blaming China for losses of American Manufacturing jobs because white guys in corner offices like him decided it would be cheaper to do manufacuting there.

View attachment 299679

I didn't vote for Trump but do support him and it has to do with his approach to China, (among other issues) who to this point has chosen to unilaterally claim territory in Tibet, on the border with India and more importantly, islands far from its coast in the China Sea. Incarcerating a million or more of its citizens, bullying neighboring countries, and exploiting Africa are further examples of unacceptable actions.

Okay. None of that has anything to do with us. If the Chinese are willing to expend their resources in Africa or the South CHINA Sea, it's not our problem.

The problem is Trump is blaming China for losses of American Manufacturing jobs because white guys in corner offices like him decided it would be cheaper to do manufacuting there.

View attachment 299679

My post went on to say:

"The fact that China has manipulated its currency to facilitate its growth as an exporter and flood the world with cheap and poor quality goods is further reason to push back against an increasingly dictatorial Chinese attitude."

As you pointed out the issues of Chinese mistreatment of their citizens and others are not our problem.

.

 

[JoeB131]

Is it really that irredeemable and unforgivable that the Republican Party decided to compete for Southern votes after Jim Crow was buried?

Yes, absolutely. the Racists in the South should have been shamed and shunned.

 

[JoeB131]

IMHO the problem is, Trump is not treated as an intrepid warrior for doing what Obama and Bush43 and Clinton were all afraid to do;

Exactly blame China, since the trade war is about something far, far bigger than "losses of American Manufacturing jobs": https://www.voltairenet.org/article197864.html

In fact, when "white guys in corner offices like Trump decide its cheaper to do manufacuting there" it really has very little to do with this one reality, called BRICs nations.

Yes BRICs nations is a group which China leads, and they are into their 2nd decade of vehemently trying to destroy the USD and I reiterate that that is more colossal than mfg. jobs that have been shipped overseas.

Again, you can say that, but it only shows you are kind of confused.

The funny thing is, the White Guys in Corner Offices aren't moving factories to China anymore. China has become to expensive. They are opening factories in Vietnam and Malaysia now.

If we can't compete with China in the trade war because our quality sucks and our costs are too high, that's on us. Protectionism won't make us fix our problems.

 

[Polishprince]

Is it really that irredeemable and unforgivable that the Republican Party decided to compete for Southern votes after Jim Crow was buried?

Yes, absolutely. the Racists in the South should have been shamed and shunned.

The Democrat Party didn't shame and shun any southerners, after or before the Civil Rights Act was passed. Fulbright, Gore Sr., Byrd, etc., all remained loyal Dems for life.

Did the D's make a mistake with their Southern strategy as well, competing for votes, and putting forth Liberal Candidates like Bill Clinton for the voters' consideration?

 

[JoeB131]

The Democrat Party didn't shame and shun any southerners, after or before the Civil Rights Act was passed. Fulbright, Gore Sr., Byrd, etc., all remained loyal Dems for life.

But they did shun Jim Crow and segregation, but Nixon lapped that stuff right up.

Did the D's make a mistake with their Southern strategy as well, competing for votes, and putting forth Liberal Candidates like Bill Clinton for the voters' consideration?

They didn't run on segregation being a good thing.. that's the point you don't seem to get.

 

[Polishprince]

The Democrat Party didn't shame and shun any southerners, after or before the Civil Rights Act was passed. Fulbright, Gore Sr., Byrd, etc., all remained loyal Dems for life.

But they did shun Jim Crow and segregation, but Nixon lapped that stuff right up.

Did the D's make a mistake with their Southern strategy as well, competing for votes, and putting forth Liberal Candidates like Bill Clinton for the voters' consideration?

They didn't run on segregation being a good thing.. that's the point you don't seem to get.

The Republicans were against Jim Crow as well.

Nixon was against segregation bigly. Never changed.

That's why the Republicans decided to compete for Southern votes, the D's largely abandoned Jim Crow after the Bipartisan Civil Rights Act was passed.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The Democrat Party didn't shame and shun any southerners, after or before the Civil Rights Act was passed. Fulbright, Gore Sr., Byrd, etc., all remained loyal Dems for life.

But they did shun Jim Crow and segregation, but Nixon lapped that stuff right up.

Did the D's make a mistake with their Southern strategy as well, competing for votes, and putting forth Liberal Candidates like Bill Clinton for the voters' consideration?

They didn't run on segregation being a good thing.. that's the point you don't seem to get.

The Republicans were against Jim Crow as well.

Nixon was against segregation bigly. Never changed.

That's why the Republicans decided to compete for Southern votes, the D's largely abandoned Jim Crow after the Bipartisan Civil Rights Act was passed.

Nixon made some bad choices and used the EO to try and force them. Nixon made bad choices which had nothing to do with nor were supported by tne Republican Party or most of the sitting republicans. He unwisely manipulated the economy by breezing all price increases. Actually, it wasn't such a bad idea but the ones that make billions from increasing the cost of living prices above the actual cost of living index went completely crazy. They had been raising the cost of living prices for the last 10 years because the laws that kept them from doing that had been weakened under the Kennedy and Johnson administration. Under Eisenhower and back, they would have either been fined into bankruptzy or spent some quality time with a wife named bubba.

Those protections that were in place that we had for well over 100 years were slowly trashed. This is why the dollar of 1956 was worth more than it is today. Each family had more disposable income than we have today. Nixon tried to bring back the old days where the economy was better but didn't have the tools to do it and he wasn't any Eisenhower.

 

[Correll]

We work to get the Republican Party back to the days it was a Grand Old Party without the aid of the John Birch Society that has hijacked it as of late. BTW, I saw the same bunch hijack the Tea Party as well and you see where the Tea Party is today.

With all due respect, Daryl, the GOP's problem is not the Birch Society, it's the 40% of the electorate standing behind Trump exactly for his misogyny, vulgarity, and his racism. They are the ones keeping the GOP afloat, and they are the ones who are on a sugar high these years. What are you, working to set up an honorable party, going to do with them? They aren't suddenly going to find reason and decency, along with a media environment catering to same. How are you going to achieve that?

For if you don't, you would have to make significant inroads with minorities, suburban voters, and progressive urban dwellers, and that looks exceedingly unlikely. So, whence are the voters for that honorable party, valuing Americans of all strands of life, going to come?

You blame us for not making inroads into minority vote, in the same post you smear us as racist.


YOu ever think about what such vile tactics are doing to this country?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

We work to get the Republican Party back to the days it was a Grand Old Party without the aid of the John Birch Society that has hijacked it as of late. BTW, I saw the same bunch hijack the Tea Party as well and you see where the Tea Party is today.

With all due respect, Daryl, the GOP's problem is not the Birch Society, it's the 40% of the electorate standing behind Trump exactly for his misogyny, vulgarity, and his racism. They are the ones keeping the GOP afloat, and they are the ones who are on a sugar high these years. What are you, working to set up an honorable party, going to do with them? They aren't suddenly going to find reason and decency, along with a media environment catering to same. How are you going to achieve that?

For if you don't, you would have to make significant inroads with minorities, suburban voters, and progressive urban dwellers, and that looks exceedingly unlikely. So, whence are the voters for that honorable party, valuing Americans of all strands of life, going to come?

You blame us for not making inroads into minority vote, in the same post you smear us as racist.


YOu ever think about what such vile tactics are doing to this country?

OE is wrong about what is happening. I pointed out the similarities of what created the JBS in 1958. I also pointed out one of the founding members was Fred Trump. That means that Rump was raised in a JBS household. If you know anything about the JBS you would know that that is not a traditional home. I also pointed out the methods used by Rump are right out of the playbook that was used against Eisenhower. You can use the claim that the JBS is about smaller government, citizens rights and more but in the end, it's about only about a select group that gets those rights. All others are considered communists and socialists and traitors. Taking a lead from the 50s, one of the methods was to pick specific groups so that all the ills could be placed on them. In the 50s it was Communists and Brown People. Both turned out to be a bust. Senator MacCarthy ended his career after ruining many lives when the Senate finally had enough and made in a pariah. He quietly didn't run for office again. When the JBS was formed, the MacCarthy plank continued. And it is the base for what we see in Trumps way of operation.

Democrats are, for the most part, not Communists nor even Socialists. Brown People (non white) are not destroying America. The list goes on and on. The difference is, in the 50s, the American Public were informed well enough to see through the ruse. Today, the American People are mostly ill informed. I can fact check and find that both sides have their harbringers of doom news outlets and two of the worst are still Foxnews and MSNBC. Then there are the so called "Online" news sources. I go by ABCNews and CBSNews along with BBCNews and PBS. When those 4 agree you can be pretty sure that it's correctly reported. Case in point, when CBSNews reported that the Iranians did, in fact, shoot down the Ukranian Airliner, they backed it up with a speech made by an Iranian Representative verifying it. Meanwhile, Foxnews was still using opinion pieces. But according to the party of Trump, CBSNews is fake news. Every time CBSNews and ABCNews has dropped the ball, they have ran a retraction. Foxnews rarely runs retractions nor does MSNBCNews. And, of course, the various so called "Online News Sources" NEVER run retractions. This makes it tough to trust any of the news outlets. But I trust the 4 that I previously mentioned to get me the most accurate and least biased. And am informed enough to not pay any attention to the "Fake News" hate speech.

When you understand that the methods used are not anything new then you start becoming informed. And that is the last thing that either of the extremists on both the right and the left want you to be. But this is the first time that the JBS has had their representative sitting in the Presidents Position. And I know, you party of Trumpers will deny it and Trump will deny it but the same thing was tried when Goldwater ran and the Republicans found a whole host of JBSers claiming not to be JBSers sitting on the Staffs before those people were sent packing. It's like putting the word Social in the name of a Fascist doesn't make it socialism. it's still Fascism. A pig by any other name is still a pig.

For the first time in history, we have had a taste (more than just a taste) of what happens when an extreme group takes over our government. We need to do something to turn the clock back to a time before it was fashionable to blame others for our own problems rather than face our own problems.

This is describing the time from 1953 to 1960. All the really great things this nation enjoys today came from this time period. It's one thing to invent it. Another to use it in war. But it's another thing to start using it in peace. Even going to the moon was owned by this time period. And today, many of those great programs like Dams are falling apart and we don't have the resources to either replace nor repair them.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

Again, you can say that, but it only shows you are kind of confused...

If this is true, then wouldn't it mean you are the one confused? By thinking the Trump is the problem via the China trade war?? Since the real problem, IYHO, is the opening of factories in Vietnam and Malaysia now.

If you're correct there, then all of this has nothing to do with how we can't compete with China in the trade war because our quality sucks and our costs are too high. Trump is totally hallucinating then, about the effectiveness of China to pilfer us for 1/2-Billion $$$ annually as well as mega cybercrime China rapes our Trade relations with. Yes, that's all on us.

Protectionism won't make us fix our problems ---problems that Trump is hallucinating about. True?

 

[Polishprince]

No, the John Birch Society was born. BTW, one of the founding members was, guess who, Fred Trump. Now, does the party of Trump make more sense now?

I hope that when Trump goes out of office, the Birchers return to the JBS party where this is accepted behavior.

Do you have a link on this claim? I had never heard that the late Fred Trump was one of the founders of the Birch Society in the1950's.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

No, the John Birch Society was born. BTW, one of the founding members was, guess who, Fred Trump. Now, does the party of Trump make more sense now?

I hope that when Trump goes out of office, the Birchers return to the JBS party where this is accepted behavior.

Do you have a link on this claim? I had never heard that the late Fred Trump was one of the founders of the Birch Society in the1950's.

John Birch Society, AJ Webberman
on Fred Trump KKK, Sioux Nation Stand Off​

Opperman interviewed a person that was raised as a JBS. The person says it a lot better than I can.

Trump stayed in contact with and even hired many of the modern Who's Who of the old JBS and American Nazi Party. Of course, they all would swear those days were over and they were staunch conservatives. They aren't. There is a reason many of Trumps actions is compared with old style Fascism.
Trumpism, Pt. 2: The Making of an American Fascist - It's Going Down

There are just too much information on Fred Trump to not believe he wasn't a JBS member from the very beginning much like the Koch Brothers.

 

[Correll]

We work to get the Republican Party back to the days it was a Grand Old Party without the aid of the John Birch Society that has hijacked it as of late. BTW, I saw the same bunch hijack the Tea Party as well and you see where the Tea Party is today.

With all due respect, Daryl, the GOP's problem is not the Birch Society, it's the 40% of the electorate standing behind Trump exactly for his misogyny, vulgarity, and his racism. They are the ones keeping the GOP afloat, and they are the ones who are on a sugar high these years. What are you, working to set up an honorable party, going to do with them? They aren't suddenly going to find reason and decency, along with a media environment catering to same. How are you going to achieve that?

For if you don't, you would have to make significant inroads with minorities, suburban voters, and progressive urban dwellers, and that looks exceedingly unlikely. So, whence are the voters for that honorable party, valuing Americans of all strands of life, going to come?

You blame us for not making inroads into minority vote, in the same post you smear us as racist.


YOu ever think about what such vile tactics are doing to this country?

OE is wrong about what is happening. I pointed out the similarities of what created the JBS in 1958. I also pointed out one of the founding members was Fred Trump. That means that Rump....

Stopped reading here. You want to make a point, make it. YOu want to just pepper the boards with partisan spin bullshit, do it with someone else.


Go back and try again. Or not. Whatever.

 

[Olde Europe]

OE is wrong about what is happening. I pointed out the similarities of what created the JBS in 1958. I also pointed out one of the founding members was Fred Trump. That means that Rump was raised in a JBS household. If you know anything about the JBS you would know that that is not a traditional home. I also pointed out the methods used by Rump are right out of the playbook that was used against Eisenhower. You can use the claim that the JBS is about smaller government, citizens rights and more but in the end, it's about only about a select group that gets those rights. All others are considered communists and socialists and traitors. Taking a lead from the 50s, one of the methods was to pick specific groups so that all the ills could be placed on them. In the 50s it was Communists and Brown People. Both turned out to be a bust. Senator MacCarthy ended his career after ruining many lives when the Senate finally had enough and made in a pariah. He quietly didn't run for office again. When the JBS was formed, the MacCarthy plank continued. And it is the base for what we see in Trumps way of operation.

I am not disputing the similarities, Daryl. I am disputing that the Birch Society is the problem. Rather, the problem is the sheer number of folks who would fall for, and come out to vote for the GOP attracted by, the Bircher crap. I would posit, if a bigger than completely insignificant number of them stays home, the GOP is doomed at the federal level, not least because there is very little by way of voter pools to make up for that loss elsewhere in the U.S. electorate.

All told, I find your focus on the JBS misguided, and so do I find your apparent hope someone in the GOP stand up and draw a bright red line between the GOP and the JBS. Not only does such line cut right through the core of the GOP, there is also no one of the stature to draw it so that it would be widely respected. Remember when Priebus issued his post mortem, or autopsy? When folks came out maintaining the GOP needs to stop being "the stupid party"? That lasted for a news cycle, or two, and then the whole thing was quickly buried in either case. As I said, the problem are the GOP voters (at least large parts), and even more so the GOP primary voters. If you can't beat the racism, the nativism, the misogyny, the Bircherism out of them, if you can't change the conservative media environment so that catering to the basest Bircherist impulses is no longer their very business model, the GOP will have to be Bircherist to cater to them.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

We work to get the Republican Party back to the days it was a Grand Old Party without the aid of the John Birch Society that has hijacked it as of late. BTW, I saw the same bunch hijack the Tea Party as well and you see where the Tea Party is today.

With all due respect, Daryl, the GOP's problem is not the Birch Society, it's the 40% of the electorate standing behind Trump exactly for his misogyny, vulgarity, and his racism. They are the ones keeping the GOP afloat, and they are the ones who are on a sugar high these years. What are you, working to set up an honorable party, going to do with them? They aren't suddenly going to find reason and decency, along with a media environment catering to same. How are you going to achieve that?

For if you don't, you would have to make significant inroads with minorities, suburban voters, and progressive urban dwellers, and that looks exceedingly unlikely. So, whence are the voters for that honorable party, valuing Americans of all strands of life, going to come?

You blame us for not making inroads into minority vote, in the same post you smear us as racist.


YOu ever think about what such vile tactics are doing to this country?

OE is wrong about what is happening. I pointed out the similarities of what created the JBS in 1958. I also pointed out one of the founding members was Fred Trump. That means that Rump....

Stopped reading here. You want to make a point, make it. YOu want to just pepper the boards with partisan spin bullshit, do it with someone else.


Go back and try again. Or not. Whatever.

Why, because history disagrees with your fantasy world? I took a good look at Trumps formative years and his Fathers history. And his actions are explained. What isn't explained is your actions. But then again, it's a tradition to lie about being a JBS member so I get it. Even if you don't know you are, your actions are right down that line. So get over it. If you don't like it, rejoin the real GOP but you already insulted all of them and they probably don't want you back. But in the very near future, The GOP is going to be in charge of the Republican Party and having to rebuild a very fractured party while you are left in the wind. At the same time, the Extremists in the Democrat Party will not have anyone to counter their actions. Thanks a friggin lot for selling America down the pike. But some of us don't accept that.

But the first thing to fix a problem is to realize there is a problem. You seem to lack that.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

OE is wrong about what is happening. I pointed out the similarities of what created the JBS in 1958. I also pointed out one of the founding members was Fred Trump. That means that Rump was raised in a JBS household. If you know anything about the JBS you would know that that is not a traditional home. I also pointed out the methods used by Rump are right out of the playbook that was used against Eisenhower. You can use the claim that the JBS is about smaller government, citizens rights and more but in the end, it's about only about a select group that gets those rights. All others are considered communists and socialists and traitors. Taking a lead from the 50s, one of the methods was to pick specific groups so that all the ills could be placed on them. In the 50s it was Communists and Brown People. Both turned out to be a bust. Senator MacCarthy ended his career after ruining many lives when the Senate finally had enough and made in a pariah. He quietly didn't run for office again. When the JBS was formed, the MacCarthy plank continued. And it is the base for what we see in Trumps way of operation.

I am not disputing the similarities, Daryl. I am disputing that the Birch Society is the problem. Rather, the problem is the sheer number of folks who would fall for, and come out to vote for the GOP attracted by, the Bircher crap. I would posit, if a bigger than completely insignificant number of them stays home, the GOP is doomed at the federal level, not least because there is very little by way of voter pools to make up for that loss elsewhere in the U.S. electorate.

All told, I find your focus on the JBS misguided, and so do I find your apparent hope someone in the GOP stand up and draw a bright red line between the GOP and the JBS. Not only does such line cut right through the core of the GOP, there is also no one of the stature to draw it so that it would be widely respected. Remember when Priebus issued his post mortem, or autopsy? When folks came out maintaining the GOP needs to stop being "the stupid party"? That lasted for a news cycle, or two, and then the whole thing was quickly buried in either case. As I said, the problem are the GOP voters (at least large parts), and even more so the GOP primary voters. If you can't beat the racism, the nativism, the misogyny, the Bircherism out of them, if you can't change the conservative media environment so that catering to the basest Bircherist impulses is no longer their very business model, the GOP will have to be Bircherist to cater to them.

think about what you just typed. In the past, there were captains of the GOP that fought on a daily basis to keep the ultra right wing groups from controlling the Republican Party. I used Fred Trump as an example. He was a member of both the KKK and the American National Nazi Party at one time. The GOP worked hard to keep them out of the GOP although they were right wing as well. But a bit too far right wing. In order to put the GOP back together, those types of groups needs to be told to go pound sand. As it is right now, they are influencing the Party of Trump as is the JBS. These are extremist right wing groups. And the largest of all of the 3 is the JBS organization. One of the main problems is, a person can be a card carrying member to any of these 3 but will deny it in public. It's been that way for a very long time. Imagine the shock when during the Goldwater Campaign when they found out that the campaign was infiltrated by these groups and what they had to do to get rid of them. Goldwater was NOT a KKK, White Supremacist, JBS or Nazi member but the fact that he was supported by them pretty well destroyed him in the 1964 Presidential Election. Johnson got a lot of Mileage out of that one. Even though the KKK and others supported Goldwater, He publicly denounced them. You will note that Trump has not publicly denounce the extremist right wing groups unless cornered. I am not saying Goldwater would have made a good President but I think he would have kept us out of Vietnam and done wonders for the economy being a staunch Fiscal Conservative.

My pick between Goldwater and Eisenhower would still be Eisenhower but Goldwater, for the time, wouldn't have been a bad pick..

 

[Correll]

We work to get the Republican Party back to the days it was a Grand Old Party without the aid of the John Birch Society that has hijacked it as of late. BTW, I saw the same bunch hijack the Tea Party as well and you see where the Tea Party is today.

With all due respect, Daryl, the GOP's problem is not the Birch Society, it's the 40% of the electorate standing behind Trump exactly for his misogyny, vulgarity, and his racism. They are the ones keeping the GOP afloat, and they are the ones who are on a sugar high these years. What are you, working to set up an honorable party, going to do with them? They aren't suddenly going to find reason and decency, along with a media environment catering to same. How are you going to achieve that?

For if you don't, you would have to make significant inroads with minorities, suburban voters, and progressive urban dwellers, and that looks exceedingly unlikely. So, whence are the voters for that honorable party, valuing Americans of all strands of life, going to come?

You blame us for not making inroads into minority vote, in the same post you smear us as racist.


YOu ever think about what such vile tactics are doing to this country?

OE is wrong about what is happening. I pointed out the similarities of what created the JBS in 1958. I also pointed out one of the founding members was Fred Trump. That means that Rump....

Stopped reading here. You want to make a point, make it. YOu want to just pepper the boards with partisan spin bullshit, do it with someone else.


Go back and try again. Or not. Whatever.

Why, because history disagrees with your fantasy world? I took a good look at Trumps formative years and his Fathers history. And his actions are explained. What isn't explained is your actions. But then again, it's a tradition to lie about being a JBS member so I get it. Even if you don't know you are, your actions are right down that line. So get over it. If you don't like it, rejoin the real GOP but you already insulted all of them and they probably don't want you back. But in the very near future, The GOP is going to be in charge of the Republican Party and having to rebuild a very fractured party while you are left in the wind. At the same time, the Extremists in the Democrat Party will not have anyone to counter their actions. Thanks a friggin lot for selling America down the pike. But some of us don't accept that.

But the first thing to fix a problem is to realize there is a problem. You seem to lack that.

Well, thanks for not talking like a baby, for one post in a row.


Not sure what your point there was, other than to restate your assertion.


My point stands. People like you smear us as racist, 24/7, and then have the unmitigated gall to blame us for failing to make inroads into the minority vote.


With the media and pop culture constantly soaked in lies from the left, our ability to be heard, is very limited.


There is really not much we can do about that. You people are successfully tearing this country apart.


IT is good for your partisan and political agenda, but bad for everyone els and the country as a whole.

 

[Papageorgio]

When Clinton won his second term, the GOP was declared dead. When Bush defeated Kerry the Democratic Party was declared dead. After Obama won there was a poster on this board that claimed the next GOP President hadn't been born yet.

So I am of the thinking that both parties will continue to trade off power and continue to BS most voters and stay in power.

 

[Olde Europe]

think about what you just typed. In the past, there were captains of the GOP that fought on a daily basis to keep the ultra right wing groups from controlling the Republican Party. I used Fred Trump as an example. He was a member of both the KKK and the American National Nazi Party at one time. The GOP worked hard to keep them out of the GOP although they were right wing as well. But a bit too far right wing. In order to put the GOP back together, those types of groups needs to be told to go pound sand. As it is right now, they are influencing the Party of Trump as is the JBS. These are extremist right wing groups. And the largest of all of the 3 is the JBS organization. One of the main problems is, a person can be a card carrying member to any of these 3 but will deny it in public. It's been that way for a very long time. Imagine the shock when during the Goldwater Campaign when they found out that the campaign was infiltrated by these groups and what they had to do to get rid of them. Goldwater was NOT a KKK, White Supremacist, JBS or Nazi member but the fact that he was supported by them pretty well destroyed him in the 1964 Presidential Election. Johnson got a lot of Mileage out of that one. Even though the KKK and others supported Goldwater, He publicly denounced them. You will note that Trump has not publicly denounce the extremist right wing groups unless cornered. I am not saying Goldwater would have made a good President but I think he would have kept us out of Vietnam and done wonders for the economy being a staunch Fiscal Conservative.

My pick between Goldwater and Eisenhower would still be Eisenhower but Goldwater, for the time, wouldn't have been a bad pick..

"think about what you just typed."​

Are you trying to suggest I didn't think about my text before I hit "Post", and to hurt my feelings?

"In order to put the GOP back together, those types of groups needs to be told to go pound sand."​

Look, Daryl, if you want to avoid at all costs a careful assessment of what the GOP has become, and make it all the doings of "outside" groups taking over, there is no point discussing the matter, because that's patently not true. The Republican party establishment went to considerable lengths to prevent the emergence of Trump in the driver's seat, to no avail. The Republican primary voters decided otherwise, in a contest involving a host of traditional GOP candidates. That means, the Republican party has a problem with its "base", and that remains so even if you find a "Bircher", secret or overt, at the top. Removing him won't change the Bircherism at the "base".

You also carefully avoid acknowledging and integrating into your argument the fact that there are no public intellectuals of the stature of Buckley with any influence in the GOP. There just aren't. Whoever dares to speak out against Trump is being declared a RINO, and relegated to the sidelines - if they are lucky, that is.

Also, you fail to incorporate that we are living in a completely different media environment compared to 60 years ago. Back then, roughly speaking, you had to influence / convince a dozen prominent conservative writers or editors to see the light. These days you'd have to sway or shut down the "Bircher", nativist, nationalist, clickbait swamp reaching from Fox via Breitbart down to thousands of bloggers, along with talk radio, all of which cater to, and derive their income from, catering to the basest of rightarded impulses by, generally, any Other they care to find on any given day. Swaying them, while absolutely necessary to get the "base" in line, looks damn nigh on impossible to me, and I see nothing from you to convince me otherwise.

You may, of course, muse about the choice between Goldwater and Eisenhower - neither is on offer, nor any candidate of their quality for 2020. And if there were one, (s)he wouldn't stand a chance against Trump, and maybe not even against Pence, the Christer bigot. Because the problem is the "base" the GOP carefully cultivated and shaped into its current form over decades.