The Palestinians In Ancient History

JStone

Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
13,374
Reaction score
251
Points
0
The history of the people of the ancient Near East and the history of the Jewish People run parallel to each other. With each new people and empire to appear, the Jews were right there, from the Egyptians 3000 years ago and the Canaanites and invading Philistines originating from the Aegean [the Sea Peoples] and the later Assyrians and Babylonians and Persians and Greeks to the Romans to the Crusaders to the Ottomans...through to the British Mandate after WW I. Archaeological artifacts housed in the Cairo Museum, British Museum, Louvre and elsewhere verify those interactions with the Jews which are literally etched in stone.

The history of the Jews during Greek rule established by Alexander the Great and, subsequently, the Jews under the Roman Empire, from Herod renovating the Temple whose Western Wall remains intact today to the destruction of the Temple by Vespasian and Titus and the Jewish rebellions under Hadrian and the Hadrianic reprisals, and the development of Christianity as a Jewish sect [Jesus, after all, was a rabbi] are particularly well-documented.

Not so well-documented, however, during this vast and intensely studied span of time is the history of the civilization of the so-called Palestinian people. In fact, there is virtually no evidence of any Palestinian people interacting with the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans or any other empires over the course of millenia. This is most curious for an allegedly ancient Palestinian people with allegedly ancient roots. Hmmmmmm....
 
Last edited:
OP
JStone

JStone

Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
13,374
Reaction score
251
Points
0
Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, Sorbonne, Paris
No one had heard of a Palestinian people before the mid-1960s. They did not exist. Israel under the British Mandate until Israel' s Independence in 1948 was called Palestine. All Jews who were born there until i948 had the word « Palestine » stamped on their passports. The current Palestinians are those Arabs who, for a variety of reasons, decided to leave the land during the 1947 War of Independence, when five countries – Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq – attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.
The War Against Israel Goes On- by Guy Millière | DRZZ.fr
 

P F Tinmore

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
59,830
Reaction score
2,581
Points
1,815
Every country has a native population whose civilization predates the name of the current state.

Palestine is no exception.
 

P F Tinmore

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
59,830
Reaction score
2,581
Points
1,815
...five countries – Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq – attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel...
One of Israel's biggest lies.
 
OP
JStone

JStone

Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
13,374
Reaction score
251
Points
0
Every country has a native population whose civilization predates the name of the current state.

Palestine is no exception.
Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...
The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1948]
 

P F Tinmore

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
59,830
Reaction score
2,581
Points
1,815
The name may be new, but the people go back hundreds even thousands of years.
 
  • Thanks
Reactions: pgm
OP
JStone

JStone

Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
13,374
Reaction score
251
Points
0
The name may be new, but the people go back hundreds even thousands of years.
Apparently, not.

Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...
The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are madewithout any supporting evidence. Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.
 

P F Tinmore

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
59,830
Reaction score
2,581
Points
1,815
Jesus talked to a Canaanite woman long after they were supposed to be extinct. Names change. People come and go. They get folded into other cultures.

The core population, however, remain century after century.
 
OP
JStone

JStone

Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
13,374
Reaction score
251
Points
0
Jesus talked to a Canaanite woman long after they were supposed to be extinct. Names change. People come and go. They get folded into other cultures.

The core population, however, remain century after century.
Canaanites were not Palestinians.
 
OP
JStone

JStone

Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
13,374
Reaction score
251
Points
0
The core population, however, remain century after century.
The core, evidently, were Jews and not Palestinians.

Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...
It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history. They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places. It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others. Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten. All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books. For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.
 

P F Tinmore

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
59,830
Reaction score
2,581
Points
1,815
The core, evidently, were Jews and not Palestinians.
The Jews were only a part of Palestine's native population. They were never the only people there.
 
OP
JStone

JStone

Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
13,374
Reaction score
251
Points
0
The core, evidently, were Jews and not Palestinians.
The Jews were only a part of Palestine's native population. They were never the only people there.
Evidently, Palestine and Palestinians are a recent invention.

Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...
The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1948]
 

P F Tinmore

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
59,830
Reaction score
2,581
Points
1,815
You are hung up on names.

Did all the Vietnam people magically appear out of nowhere when the French left or were they the same people who were there since before the French came?
 
OP
JStone

JStone

Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
13,374
Reaction score
251
Points
0
You are hung up on names.
Evidently, not.

Rashid Khalidi, Profesor of Middle East history, Columbia University, professor of Middle East history and director of the Center for International Studies at the University of Chicago and advisor to various Arab groups...
There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots. As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern. Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
 

P F Tinmore

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
59,830
Reaction score
2,581
Points
1,815
You are hung up on names.
Evidently, not.

Rashid Khalidi, Profesor of Middle East history, Columbia University, professor of Middle East history and director of the Center for International Studies at the University of Chicago and advisor to various Arab groups...
There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots. As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern. Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
Are you saying that whenever a new flag is raised over city hall all the old population leaves and a whole new population moves in?
 
OP
JStone

JStone

Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
13,374
Reaction score
251
Points
0
You are hung up on names.
Evidently, not.

Rashid Khalidi, Profesor of Middle East history, Columbia University, professor of Middle East history and director of the Center for International Studies at the University of Chicago and advisor to various Arab groups...
There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots. As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern. Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
Are you saying that whenever a new flag is raised over city hall all the old population leaves and a whole new population moves in?
The learned Arab Professor of Middle East history Rashid Khalidi is saying Palestinians have no ancient history. Who are we to argue?
 

P F Tinmore

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
59,830
Reaction score
2,581
Points
1,815
You are arguing a point that is not a point.
 
OP
JStone

JStone

Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
13,374
Reaction score
251
Points
0
You are arguing a point that is not a point.
Evidently, not.

Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...
By [Arabs] bypassing the Biblical Israelites and claiming kinship with the Canaanites, it is possible to assert a historical claim antedating the biblical promise and possession put forward by the Jews. This line of argument isaccompanied by the common practice in Arab countries, in textbook, museums and exhibitions of minimizing the Jewish role in ancient history or, more frequently, presenting it in very negative terms.

In terms of scholarship as distinct from politics, there is no evidence whatsoever for the assertion that the Canaanites were Arabs.
 

P F Tinmore

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
59,830
Reaction score
2,581
Points
1,815
You are arguing a point that is not a point.
Evidently, not.

Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...
By [Arabs] bypassing the Biblical Israelites and claiming kinship with the Canaanites, it is possible to assert a historical claim antedating the biblical promise and possession put forward by the Jews. This line of argument isaccompanied by the common practice in Arab countries, in textbook, museums and exhibitions of minimizing the Jewish role in ancient history or, more frequently, presenting it in very negative terms.

In terms of scholarship as distinct from politics, there is no evidence whatsoever for the assertion that the Canaanites were Arabs.
Whether the Palestinians are Arabs or Canaanites or whatever is irrelevant. It only smokescreens the issue.
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top