SavannahMann
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One problem. The owner has said that nothing was ever stolen. So what was he stealing?
The painful truth about Ahmaud Arberry
- Thread starter KingGUERRILLA
- Start date
One problem. The owner has said that nothing was ever stolen. So what was he stealing?
KingGUERRILLA
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The owner is a victim of terroristic threatening and has reported numerous things stolen in the past just like the rest of the neighborhood who knew exactly who this thief was and recognized him on sight
The news flash for you is that it's totally irrelevant if he stole anything anyway because having fled from the first confrontation he gave everyone in the neighborhood Reasonable Suspicion to pursue
welcome to America
SavannahMann
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Not in America. But hey. Go with what you think instead of the facts. And watch the McMichaels go to Prison for violating Georgia law.
KingGUERRILLA
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how you like those videos?
you said Larry English said nothing was taken, how about now?
You people bought a fake news story about a innocent black jogger gunned down by a couple racist rednecks but it turns out the whole neighborhood was identifying this well-known local criminal and he attacked a couple honest decent hard-working men trying to take him into custody for law enforcement and got his dumb ass shot in a open and shut case of self-defense
this kid was a local Criminal who came from a family full of criminals
The only reason the McMichaels are in jail now is because the view and USA Today are more important to America's deeply perverted Society then the law of the land
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SavannahMann
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odd. He claims nothing was ever stolen. How accurate are your videos. Because the prosecutor in court said that the owner never claimed anything was stolen.
Video shows person at construction site 12 days before Ahmaud Arbery’s death
The attorney for a property owner in the Satilla Shores neighborhood has released video showing someone inside a home being built on the property less than a mile from where Ahmaud Arbery was killed.
www.news4jax.com
KingGUERRILLA
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odd. He claims nothing was ever stolen. How accurate are your videos. Because the prosecutor in court said that the owner never claimed anything was stolen.
Video shows person at construction site 12 days before Ahmaud Arbery’s death
The attorney for a property owner in the Satilla Shores neighborhood has released video showing someone inside a home being built on the property less than a mile from where Ahmaud Arbery was killed.
did you watch those videos?
SavannahMann
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odd. He claims nothing was ever stolen. How accurate are your videos. Because the prosecutor in court said that the owner never claimed anything was stolen.
Video shows person at construction site 12 days before Ahmaud Arbery’s death
The attorney for a property owner in the Satilla Shores neighborhood has released video showing someone inside a home being built on the property less than a mile from where Ahmaud Arbery was killed.
did you watch those videos?
So let’s cover Georgia law. Let’s say you see a guy. You know he stole something. You know he did. You grab him. But he didn’t steal today in your presence. Are you committing a crime?
The answer is yes. You are. He could be the biggest criminal since Al Capone. And you have no right to stop him. None.
The crime has to take place in your presence for you to have legal authority under Georgia Law to effect a Citizens arrest. What did Arbury steal on the day he died? According to the police. Nothing. According to the lawyers representing the defendants? Nothing. So what legal justification did they have in stopping him?
KingGUERRILLA
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odd. He claims nothing was ever stolen. How accurate are your videos. Because the prosecutor in court said that the owner never claimed anything was stolen.
Video shows person at construction site 12 days before Ahmaud Arbery’s death
The attorney for a property owner in the Satilla Shores neighborhood has released video showing someone inside a home being built on the property less than a mile from where Ahmaud Arbery was killed.
did you watch those videos?
So let’s cover Georgia law. Let’s say you see a guy. You know he stole something. You know he did. You grab him. But he didn’t steal today in your presence. Are you committing a crime?
The answer is yes. You are. He could be the biggest criminal since Al Capone. And you have no right to stop him. None.
The crime has to take place in your presence for you to have legal authority under Georgia Law to effect a Citizens arrest. What did Arbury steal on the day he died? According to the police. Nothing. According to the lawyers representing the defendants? Nothing. So what legal justification did they have in stopping him?
how come you dont want to talk about the videos of Larry English describing all the crimes anymore?
everybody knew the mentally challenged THEIF that kept robbing that neighborhood and they were on the lookout for him
the neighbors identified the thief running from the structure as the McMichaels gave Chase ( they recognized him as well)
When the thief attacked the McMichaels they defended themselves...it's a pretty simple concept
By Georgia law they had what's called immediate knowledge that he had committed a crime
By Georgia law entering a structure with a no trespassing sign is an automatic burglary charge
did you know that construction sites are hotbeds of theft and therefore liable to a lower criteria for a burglary charge?
SavannahMann
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odd. He claims nothing was ever stolen. How accurate are your videos. Because the prosecutor in court said that the owner never claimed anything was stolen.
Video shows person at construction site 12 days before Ahmaud Arbery’s death
The attorney for a property owner in the Satilla Shores neighborhood has released video showing someone inside a home being built on the property less than a mile from where Ahmaud Arbery was killed.
did you watch those videos?
So let’s cover Georgia law. Let’s say you see a guy. You know he stole something. You know he did. You grab him. But he didn’t steal today in your presence. Are you committing a crime?
The answer is yes. You are. He could be the biggest criminal since Al Capone. And you have no right to stop him. None.
The crime has to take place in your presence for you to have legal authority under Georgia Law to effect a Citizens arrest. What did Arbury steal on the day he died? According to the police. Nothing. According to the lawyers representing the defendants? Nothing. So what legal justification did they have in stopping him?
how come you dont want to talk about the videos of Larry English describing all the crimes anymore?
everybody knew the mentally challenged THEIF that kept robbing that neighborhood and they were on the lookout for him
the neighbors identified the thief running from the structure as the McMichaels gave Chase ( they recognized him as well)
When the thief attacked the McMichaels they defended themselves...it's a pretty simple concept
By Georgia law they had what's called immediate knowledge that he had committed a crime
By Georgia law entering a structure with a no trespassing sign is an automatic burglary charge
did you know that construction sites are hotbeds of theft and therefore liable to a lower criteria for a burglary charge?
No not even close. Let’s go back. For it to be self defense it had to be a legal attempt to engage in citizens arrest. For that to happen the people effecting the arrest had to see the crime committed. No crime was committed in their presence. Everyone knowing doesn’t cut it.
If Arbury had stopped. McMichaels and son would still go to jail for illegal imprisonment. Waving the shotgun around would have included the charge for Aggravated Assault.
So once they set off in pursuit the McMichaels were the felons. Both charges are felonies.
In Georgia everyone knows doesn’t cut it. Citizens arrest is intended to be used when you can’t wait for cops. Not for when you feel heroic. Days or weeks later.
Now about your videos. Let’s cover those shall we?
911 calls, incident reports shed light on previous issues in Glynn County neighborhood
WTOC obtained 10 incident reports and radio communication logs from at least 5 prior 911 calls in Satilla Shores, the neighborhood where Ahmaud Arbery was killed in February by armed homeowners.
www.wtoc.com
10 calls to the cops. Only one burglary reported. That was Travis. He reported a gun stolen from his truck.
This is the cops own reports. So everyone knew there were burglaries. Except the cops because they were not reported. So what is the most likely explanation?
Travis and Daddy decided that the black guy was the thief who stole the gun. They decided he was stealing everything. No proof. But everyone knew.
You see. You don’t just shout he is a thief. You have to list what was stolen. Let’s say Arbury was arrested in that day. For what? Stealing something? You can’t tell the judge everyone knew he was a thief. You have to tell the judge and later the jury what he stole. And you have to show when he stole it. Witnesses or video. Nothing like that exists.
You don’t grab a guy and say he stole money from a bank. The first question is how much. I don’t know is not an answer.
Now since I have lived in Georgia longer than you claim to be in public safety. What the hell is that anyway? What are you a mall security guard? Anyway. I have lived here for nearly thirty years. I’ve watched news and I’ve watched trials and I’ve seen Georgia Justice. Those three are going to prison.
Now. You like videos. So here we go scooter.
That is the preliminary hearing. The result as we all know was denied bond and remanded into custody until the trial. What was missing?
No mention of burglaries. No mention of thefts. Nothing which the GBI was able to tie to Arbury. But perhaps that actual cop doesn’t have your experience in Public Safety.
That one is a little long. Here is a shorter one from an actual lawyer. I am not sure he qualifies in your mind since he has limited or no experience in Mall Security.
Now I have previously posted a link to a short essay from a Georgia Attorney who specializes in Appeals and has been successful.
let me explain why that is interesting in Georgia. Appeals courts here are exceptionally reluctant to question or overturn a Trial Court Judge or a Jury Decision. Getting appeals courts to do that is possible. Just like winning the lottery is possible. It just isn’t likely. The essay I posted was from a lawyer who got decisions overturned. In Georgia.
Glynn County is famous in Georgia for the previously mentioned good old boys network. They ruled one death a suicide. A man who was right handed used his left hand to shoot himself in the head. A week after having surgery on his left shoulder. And could not lift his left arm.
That is one example. Now your extensive experience in public safety. I still have no idea what that is. I mean are you a school crossing guard? Anyway. It isn’t in Georgia. In Georgia we know those three are going to jail. Even their lawyers know it. Because half the press conferences are about how proud the lawyers are to stand beside anyone who is accused of a crime. They’re drumming up more business.
But you are convinced that they are really innocent. Let me say again what I have always said. If you are going to carry a gun you need to know what the laws are. Not what you think they are. Or what you think they should be. And if God forbid you ever use that gun. Say nothing to the police. Get a lawyer. Get a lawyer right away.
Daddy counted on the Good Old Boys network to protect them. And it might have if he didn’t release the video and get the State involved. But he did. And he’s going to prison because of it.
whutTHEYsay
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Not much of what you say is true. There is no false information except from the racist types. The McMichaels are murderers.
KingGUERRILLA
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odd. He claims nothing was ever stolen. How accurate are your videos. Because the prosecutor in court said that the owner never claimed anything was stolen.
Video shows person at construction site 12 days before Ahmaud Arbery’s death
The attorney for a property owner in the Satilla Shores neighborhood has released video showing someone inside a home being built on the property less than a mile from where Ahmaud Arbery was killed.
did you watch those videos?
So let’s cover Georgia law. Let’s say you see a guy. You know he stole something. You know he did. You grab him. But he didn’t steal today in your presence. Are you committing a crime?
The answer is yes. You are. He could be the biggest criminal since Al Capone. And you have no right to stop him. None.
The crime has to take place in your presence for you to have legal authority under Georgia Law to effect a Citizens arrest. What did Arbury steal on the day he died? According to the police. Nothing. According to the lawyers representing the defendants? Nothing. So what legal justification did they have in stopping him?
how come you dont want to talk about the videos of Larry English describing all the crimes anymore?
everybody knew the mentally challenged THEIF that kept robbing that neighborhood and they were on the lookout for him
the neighbors identified the thief running from the structure as the McMichaels gave Chase ( they recognized him as well)
When the thief attacked the McMichaels they defended themselves...it's a pretty simple concept
By Georgia law they had what's called immediate knowledge that he had committed a crime
By Georgia law entering a structure with a no trespassing sign is an automatic burglary charge
did you know that construction sites are hotbeds of theft and therefore liable to a lower criteria for a burglary charge?
No not even close. Let’s go back. For it to be self defense it had to be a legal attempt to engage in citizens arrest. For that to happen the people effecting the arrest had to see the crime committed. No crime was committed in their presence. Everyone knowing doesn’t cut it.
If Arbury had stopped. McMichaels and son would still go to jail for illegal imprisonment. Waving the shotgun around would have included the charge for Aggravated Assault.
So once they set off in pursuit the McMichaels were the felons. Both charges are felonies.
In Georgia everyone knows doesn’t cut it. Citizens arrest is intended to be used when you can’t wait for cops. Not for when you feel heroic. Days or weeks later.
Now about your videos. Let’s cover those shall we?
911 calls, incident reports shed light on previous issues in Glynn County neighborhood
WTOC obtained 10 incident reports and radio communication logs from at least 5 prior 911 calls in Satilla Shores, the neighborhood where Ahmaud Arbery was killed in February by armed homeowners.
10 calls to the cops. Only one burglary reported. That was Travis. He reported a gun stolen from his truck.
This is the cops own reports. So everyone knew there were burglaries. Except the cops because they were not reported. So what is the most likely explanation?
Travis and Daddy decided that the black guy was the thief who stole the gun. They decided he was stealing everything. No proof. But everyone knew.
You see. You don’t just shout he is a thief. You have to list what was stolen. Let’s say Arbury was arrested in that day. For what? Stealing something? You can’t tell the judge everyone knew he was a thief. You have to tell the judge and later the jury what he stole. And you have to show when he stole it. Witnesses or video. Nothing like that exists.
You don’t grab a guy and say he stole money from a bank. The first question is how much. I don’t know is not an answer.
Now since I have lived in Georgia longer than you claim to be in public safety. What the hell is that anyway? What are you a mall security guard? Anyway. I have lived here for nearly thirty years. I’ve watched news and I’ve watched trials and I’ve seen Georgia Justice. Those three are going to prison.
Now. You like videos. So here we go scooter.
That is the preliminary hearing. The result as we all know was denied bond and remanded into custody until the trial. What was missing?
No mention of burglaries. No mention of thefts. Nothing which the GBI was able to tie to Arbury. But perhaps that actual cop doesn’t have your experience in Public Safety.
That one is a little long. Here is a shorter one from an actual lawyer. I am not sure he qualifies in your mind since he has limited or no experience in Mall Security.
Now I have previously posted a link to a short essay from a Georgia Attorney who specializes in Appeals and has been successful.
let me explain why that is interesting in Georgia. Appeals courts here are exceptionally reluctant to question or overturn a Trial Court Judge or a Jury Decision. Getting appeals courts to do that is possible. Just like winning the lottery is possible. It just isn’t likely. The essay I posted was from a lawyer who got decisions overturned. In Georgia.
Glynn County is famous in Georgia for the previously mentioned good old boys network. They ruled one death a suicide. A man who was right handed used his left hand to shoot himself in the head. A week after having surgery on his left shoulder. And could not lift his left arm.
That is one example. Now your extensive experience in public safety. I still have no idea what that is. I mean are you a school crossing guard? Anyway. It isn’t in Georgia. In Georgia we know those three are going to jail. Even their lawyers know it. Because half the press conferences are about how proud the lawyers are to stand beside anyone who is accused of a crime. They’re drumming up more business.
But you are convinced that they are really innocent. Let me say again what I have always said. If you are going to carry a gun you need to know what the laws are. Not what you think they are. Or what you think they should be. And if God forbid you ever use that gun. Say nothing to the police. Get a lawyer. Get a lawyer right away.
Daddy counted on the Good Old Boys network to protect them. And it might have if he didn’t release the video and get the State involved. But he did. And he’s going to prison because of it.
your lawyer is a PC hack dirty digging for views by coddling the popular fake news narrative
nobody "waved a gun around"
if they had POINTED guns he wouldent have charged them at all
they were never able to commission a citizen's arrest they were simply pursuing the individual when he decided to attack you don't have to have anything but reasonable suspicion to pursue someone while you're holding a gun in the state of Georgia
if you walk around the corner and a woman is screaming in a foreign language while pointing at a man running away from her it's perfectly legal for you to detain him for law enforcement because you had reasonable suspicion that he had committed a crime even though you had not witnessed any crime committed
One of America's most horrible serial killers was taken into custody by a group of citizens in California who did not witness him commit a crime of any kind!
they ran him down and beat him mercilessly until the police arrived simply because they believed he was Richard Ramirez The Night Stalker from recognizing his photograph
under your cowardly interpretation of the law This Woman's rapist and the most horrible serial killer in American history would have been allowed to escape since the citizenry would now not be allowed to act unless they actually physically witnessed a crime
the vast majority of thefts in stores are not actually witnessed but the individual is detained and then determined to have been shoplifting once a search has been conducted
I have over 20 years of personal first-hand professional experience in public safety that's why I know so much more about the law than you do
KingGUERRILLA
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care to actually specifically quote a detail of my information that is false?
KingGUERRILLA
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Imagine a poor little handicapped girl repeatedly blowing on a rape Whistle While pointing at a man fleeing from her in a darkened alley
You're a big strong individual who could easily overpower this individual fleeing from the little girl but you're not allowed to touch him because you didn't actually witness him commit a crime
Later on the little girl's family asks why you let the rapist run away and you have to turn to them and say because I didn't actually see him rape your young daughter
Is this actually the Cowardly interpretation of America's laws that you people are trying to perpetrate all over modern society because you're so guilty and emotionally distraught over the fake news stories you've been reading about black victimhood in your social media Echo chamber?
Remember that the fake news media has a financial incentive to dramatize and racialize every story that comes their way because outrage creates views and Views create ad clicks and that creates Revenue
The family of the deceased also has every incentive in the world to create the most outlandish victimhood narrative because the windfall they can receive from crowdfunding websites largely outstrips any civil reward in a court of law
This has the ultimate price of degrading American society in every shape form and fashion but it throws a crap ton of money at a tiny group of individuals who are lying for profit
You're a big strong individual who could easily overpower this individual fleeing from the little girl but you're not allowed to touch him because you didn't actually witness him commit a crime
Later on the little girl's family asks why you let the rapist run away and you have to turn to them and say because I didn't actually see him rape your young daughter
Is this actually the Cowardly interpretation of America's laws that you people are trying to perpetrate all over modern society because you're so guilty and emotionally distraught over the fake news stories you've been reading about black victimhood in your social media Echo chamber?
Remember that the fake news media has a financial incentive to dramatize and racialize every story that comes their way because outrage creates views and Views create ad clicks and that creates Revenue
The family of the deceased also has every incentive in the world to create the most outlandish victimhood narrative because the windfall they can receive from crowdfunding websites largely outstrips any civil reward in a court of law
This has the ultimate price of degrading American society in every shape form and fashion but it throws a crap ton of money at a tiny group of individuals who are lying for profit
whutTHEYsay
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search NotfooledbyW posts type in Arberry
I’ve written plenty about the many falsehoods you repeated.
when I have time I’ll post a few of the specifics if you are serious about engaging in a discussion based on facts.
KingGUERRILLA
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LOL, thats what i thought.
I'll just be waiting for you to conjure up a couple "falsehoods" then
LOL
Canon Shooter
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McMichael was the initial aggressor. He armed himself and then chased Arbury, despite the fact that he (McMichael) was reacting to no crime. Arbury was the one acting in self defense. As the law is written, McMichael cannot make a legitimate claim of self defense.
The fact that you're just too dense to comprehend that doesn't make it any less true.
I have $100 that says Travis McMichael is convicted and sent to prison. Since you seem so damn sure of his innocence, I suspect you'll have no problem stepping up to the plate and taking that bet...
SavannahMann
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What they were doing is the literal definition of Aggravated Assault under Georgia law. And lawyer after lawyer say the same thing. Either they are all far more familiar with the law than you are, or they are all PC hacks. However. I think we are getting to your real objection. White guys were charged for killing a black guy. How outrageous.
Oh. So when they dismounted the car armed and called on Arbury to stop they were not attempting a citizens arrest? Ok. What were they doing? Attempted Kidnapping? Their own words to the cops are sinking them here. That is part of your problem. They told the cops what they were trying to do, and on camera. Now you want to either go back and change history or pretend they didn’t say it
Not really. But in either case it doesn’t matter. Nobody but the McMichaels were shouting and pointing. But I am confused. Were they after Arbury to detain him as you seem to indicate here or were they just standing armed in the middle of the street blocking the mans path after several attempts to cut him off according to their own statement to the police with no threat indicated?
Several things. First. The Cops put the sketch, and it was a sketch not a photograph, on the TV and news. Second. The POLICE identified the man as a suspect for the crimes.
THIRD. California and Georgia have different laws and the two cases are very different. In California in the 1980’s the Citizens arrest laws were first hand knowledge of a Misdemeanor and reasonable suspicion of a Felony. And I fail to see what the case of Richard Ramirez has to do with at most a suspected petty theft guy in Georgia.
And again I ask what the hell Public Safety is? Look Scooter. I keep pointing out lawyers and you deride them. Here is another.
GeorgiaLegalAid.org | Free, easy to understand legal information and resources
Free, easy to understand legal information from Atlanta Legal Aid Society and Georgia Legal Services Program
www.georgialegalaid.org
Citizen’s arrest
A private person can only make a citizen’s arrest if they see another person committing a crime. A citizen's arrest occurs when a citizen prevents a suspect from leaving a scene. Citizen's arrest most often happens in cases like shoplifting, when the store's manager detains the suspected offender.
So help me out here. You could be richer than Warren Buffet by being a lawyer in Georgia and explaining the laws of Georgia to the courts. Because all of them apparently have it wrong. Every single cop, every lawyer, and every Judge has it completely wrong. I mean every single one. Hell you could buy a private jet and own an island in a few months.
I don’t know what mall you are a rent a cop at. I don’t know what state you are in. I don’t know and I really don’t care. Because I live in Georgia. I live in Rural Georgia outside of Savannah. I have lived in Georgia for nearly thirty years. I have been fortunate enough to meet and know two Judges. One was a neighbor of my Wife’s family and the other shared an interest in Civil War rifles. He had a lovely collection of them.
Now Security Officer. Let’s be honest for a moment. What kind of blistering fool would listen to a Rent a Cop instead of a Lawyer where the law is concerned?
Canon Shooter
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The problem with debating with idiots like you is that, when presented a factual point, you just deny or dismiss it and act like it doesn't matter.
Take my bet, coward. But I'll even sweeten to pot: aside from the winner getting $100, the loser leaves USMB for good.
C'mon, coward, take the bet...
Canon Shooter
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Actually, this is untrue.
On May 1, Gregory McMichael told The Daily Beast that he had no direct evidence Arbery had stolen anything in the neighborhood...
You'll need to cite the specifics of the differences in criteria if you expect to come across as anything but ignorant...
KingGUERRILLA
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Whether or not he stole anything is completely irrelevant
The fact that he fled from a home that was a target of burglary gave the entire neighborhood Reasonable Suspicion to believe he had committed a crime
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