The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[dilloduck]

Zimmerman was not on "watch" that night. He was carrying his gun because he has a legal carry permit. No one is mentioning what a high crime area this housing complex was. There had been many burglaries and the modus operandi of some of the criminals had been to "case" the houses before they burglarized them. Zimmerman was aware of this and he saw something so he said something and called the police. The fact that Zimmerman was hypervigilant and Martin was hypersensitive played tragically in this whole event.

As for the texts, they are only relevant if the prosecution tries to bring state of mind evidence into court for Martin. IMO

I don't see how this case can be anything but state of mind. Zimmerman has gotta prove how he felt. ( and convince the jury of it. )

 

[Luissa]

The extent to which Zimmerman followed him has not even been established yet. How can you argue this point?

Um how can you argue over the extent? He followed him, that caused the incident. If he had not followed him it would have never happened, that is a fact. Martin committed no crime, he didnt have a reason to follow him.

that incident was over the moment that Zimmerman lost him.

The incident that travon started that ended his life, is a different matter all together.

travons mindset/ anger level/ teen angst is all part of the mind set of why he attacked zimmerman.

How so? Under Florida law if Trayvon had lived it wouldn't have mattered if Zimmerman lost him?
And on who's word are we going on that he lost him? A man who can't bail out of jail due to lying?

 

[dilloduck]

Um how can you argue over the extent? He followed him, that caused the incident. If he had not followed him it would have never happened, that is a fact. Martin committed no crime, he didnt have a reason to follow him.

that incident was over the moment that Zimmerman lost him.

The incident that travon started that ended his life, is a different matter all together.

travons mindset/ anger level/ teen angst is all part of the mind set of why he attacked zimmerman.

How so? Under Florida law if Trayvon had lived it wouldn't have mattered if Zimmerman lost him?
And on who's word are we going on that he lost him? A man who can't bail out of jail due to lying?

Zimmerman will claim that Trayvon turned the tables, followed him and attacked him. Can you prove that none of that is true ?

 

[SantaFeWay]

I don't see how this case can be anything but state of mind. Zimmerman has gotta prove how he felt. ( and convince the jury of it. )

Agreed. But moods change and I don't believe the defense can use Martin's text messages from earlier that day to prove his state of mind unless the prosecution tries to admit evidence that Martin was, say, happy-go-lucky or carefree all day. Know what I mean? I don't think Martin's angry text messages hours before the incident have anything to do with what ultimately happened.

 

[dilloduck]

I don't see how this case can be anything but state of mind. Zimmerman has gotta prove how he felt. ( and convince the jury of it. )

Agreed. But moods change and I don't believe the defense can use Martin's text messages from earlier that day to prove his state of mind unless the prosecution tries to admit evidence that Martin was, say, happy-go-lucky or carefree all day. Know what I mean? I don't think Martin's angry text messages hours before the incident have anything to do with what ultimately happened.

agreed--I think that's why the defense asked for them---just in case the prosecution wants to try and use some other texts. Pre emptive.

 

[syrenn]

Um how can you argue over the extent? He followed him, that caused the incident. If he had not followed him it would have never happened, that is a fact. Martin committed no crime, he didnt have a reason to follow him.

that incident was over the moment that Zimmerman lost him.

The incident that travon started that ended his life, is a different matter all together.

travons mindset/ anger level/ teen angst is all part of the mind set of why he attacked zimmerman.

How so? Under Florida law if Trayvon had lived it wouldn't have mattered if Zimmerman lost him?
And on who's word are we going on that he lost him? A man who can't bail out of jail due to lying?

the 911 tapes bear out that zimmerman said he lost him.
The tapes bear out that zimmerman was going to meet the cops (at the mailboxes?)

Which means travon decided to hunt Zimmerman and attack.

 

[SantaFeWay]

Yes, syrenn, that's the way I understand it also.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm guessing that Luissa is using the scenario that Zimmerman scared Travon so badly that he feared for his life and anything he did after that he's not responsible for. Sorry Luissa but he had plenty of time and room to retreat.

 

[Luissa]

I'm guessing that Luissa is using the scenario that Zimmerman scared Travon so badly that he feared for his life and anything he did after that he's not responsible for. Sorry Luissa but he had plenty of time and room to retreat.

Under Florida law he doesn't have to.
And are saying if someone followed you at night you wouldn't be fearful?

 

[Oldstyle]

Not really, Zimmerman followed someone who was not committing a crime. That's all I need to know.,

Ah, since when is following someone a reason for giving them a beating? You seem to think that if someone who is being followed stops and assaults the person following them that they are somehow absolved of committing the crime of assault and battery. Zimmerman had a reason to be following Trayvon Martin. If they'd talked it out...there wouldn't have been the physical confrontation that led to the gun being used. If Trayvon Martin had felt threatened he should have done what George Zimmerman did...call the Police. He didn't DO that though...did he? Nor did he go to the apartment just down the block. No, he decided that he should physically confront the man who was following him.

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm guessing that Luissa is using the scenario that Zimmerman scared Travon so badly that he feared for his life and anything he did after that he's not responsible for. Sorry Luissa but he had plenty of time and room to retreat.

Under Florida law he doesn't have to.
And are saying if someone followed you at night you wouldn't be fearful?

If someone followed me at night I would head for somewhere safe AS I called the Police on my cell phone. Trayvon Martin did neither.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm guessing that Luissa is using the scenario that Zimmerman scared Travon so badly that he feared for his life and anything he did after that he's not responsible for. Sorry Luissa but he had plenty of time and room to retreat.

Under Florida law he doesn't have to.
And are saying if someone followed you at night you wouldn't be fearful?

ok---let's assume you're right about the law---Travon's thinking--I'm scared shitless so I'm going to track this dude down and beat the shit out of him. What is Zimmerman supposed to do under Florida Law ? Allow himself to be killed ?

 

[Luissa]

that incident was over the moment that Zimmerman lost him.

The incident that travon started that ended his life, is a different matter all together.

travons mindset/ anger level/ teen angst is all part of the mind set of why he attacked zimmerman.

How so? Under Florida law if Trayvon had lived it wouldn't have mattered if Zimmerman lost him?
And on who's word are we going on that he lost him? A man who can't bail out of jail due to lying?

the 911 tapes bear out that zimmerman said he lost him.
The tapes bear out that zimmerman was going to meet the cops (at the mailboxes?)

Which means travon decided to hunt Zimmerman and attack.

In the 911 tapes he asked the operators to call him once they got there so he could tell them where he was at. From the timeline of events he wasn't at his truck which is where he originally made the call. It is also noted on the 911 calls he had already followed Martin, then followed him again while on the phone.
And under Florida Law Martin did not have to retreat if he feared imminent danger. In one case in Florida a man got off after shooting a man who was laying on the ground.
If you can defend Zimmerman for using self defense after following an innocent minor, why can't you defend Martin for coming back after being followed by someone at night?
If one can use that excuse, why can't the other?

 

[Luissa]

I'm guessing that Luissa is using the scenario that Zimmerman scared Travon so badly that he feared for his life and anything he did after that he's not responsible for. Sorry Luissa but he had plenty of time and room to retreat.

Under Florida law he doesn't have to.
And are saying if someone followed you at night you wouldn't be fearful?

If someone followed me at night I would head for somewhere safe AS I called the Police on my cell phone. Trayvon Martin did neither.

Under Florida law he doesn't have to.. And from your answer I can assume your answer is yes. So that proves my point. Thanks.

 

[dilloduck]

How so? Under Florida law if Trayvon had lived it wouldn't have mattered if Zimmerman lost him?
And on who's word are we going on that he lost him? A man who can't bail out of jail due to lying?

the 911 tapes bear out that zimmerman said he lost him.
The tapes bear out that zimmerman was going to meet the cops (at the mailboxes?)

Which means travon decided to hunt Zimmerman and attack.

In the 911 tapes he asked the operators to call him once they got there so he could tell them where he was at. From the timeline of events he wasn't at his truck which is where he originally made the call. It is also noted on the 911 calls he had already followed Martin, then followed him again while on the phone.
And under Florida Law Martin did not have to retreat if he feared imminent danger. In one case in Florida a man got off after shooting a man who was laying on the ground.
If you can defend Zimmerman for using self defense after following an innocent minor, why can't you defend Martin for coming back after being followed by someone at night?
If one can use that excuse, why can't the other?

In that case we ended up with two men in fear of their lives----both had a right to protect themselves. Travon lost. Claiming that Zimmerman somehow started it and therefore caused it all is just BS.

 

[Luissa]

I'm guessing that Luissa is using the scenario that Zimmerman scared Travon so badly that he feared for his life and anything he did after that he's not responsible for. Sorry Luissa but he had plenty of time and room to retreat.

Under Florida law he doesn't have to.
And are saying if someone followed you at night you wouldn't be fearful?

ok---let's assume you're right about the law---Travon's thinking--I'm scared shitless so I'm going to track this dude down and beat the shit out of him. What is Zimmerman supposed to do under Florida Law ? Allow himself to be killed ?

Wouldn't he have caused the situation? Which would mean it was an imperfect self defense. He would get a lesser charge, but still face consequences.. Which is actually what I think should happen.

 

[dilloduck]

Under Florida law he doesn't have to.
And are saying if someone followed you at night you wouldn't be fearful?

If someone followed me at night I would head for somewhere safe AS I called the Police on my cell phone. Trayvon Martin did neither.

Under Florida law he doesn't have to.. And from your answer I can assume your answer is yes. So that proves my point. Thanks.

Oh Luissa. Florida law doesn't say that if your scared you can just go kill the person. It's far more detailed.

 

[dilloduck]

Under Florida law he doesn't have to.
And are saying if someone followed you at night you wouldn't be fearful?

ok---let's assume you're right about the law---Travon's thinking--I'm scared shitless so I'm going to track this dude down and beat the shit out of him. What is Zimmerman supposed to do under Florida Law ? Allow himself to be killed ?

Wouldn't he have caused the situation? Which would mean it was an imperfect self defense. He would get a lesser charge, but still face consequences.. Which is actually what I think should happen.

You scare me--I kill you--no problem---cmon Luissa

 

[Luissa]

the 911 tapes bear out that zimmerman said he lost him.
The tapes bear out that zimmerman was going to meet the cops (at the mailboxes?)

Which means travon decided to hunt Zimmerman and attack.

In the 911 tapes he asked the operators to call him once they got there so he could tell them where he was at. From the timeline of events he wasn't at his truck which is where he originally made the call. It is also noted on the 911 calls he had already followed Martin, then followed him again while on the phone.
And under Florida Law Martin did not have to retreat if he feared imminent danger. In one case in Florida a man got off after shooting a man who was laying on the ground.
If you can defend Zimmerman for using self defense after following an innocent minor, why can't you defend Martin for coming back after being followed by someone at night?
If one can use that excuse, why can't the other?

In that case we ended up with two men in fear of their lives----both had a right to protect themselves. Travon lost. Claiming that Zimmerman somehow started it and therefore caused it all is just BS.

How did he not start it? He followed an innocent minor who was unarmed, while he himself was armed.
Of course he caused it, he followed someone who had not committed a crime. So you saying he didnt cause it is BS.
If he had not followed Martin it would have never happened. That is a fact you cannot argue.

 

[Truthseeker420]

It backfired on Jodi Arias. You can't glean emotion from a few text messages. I't not a crime to text someone but it is a crime when Zimmerman was charged with assault of a police officer and his wife.