The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[elektra]

Nagasaki and Hiroshima, sad events in World War II, the responsibility for their destruction rests squarely on the Japanese. From the Japanese mother packing fuses in bombs to her Japanese husband off to his job as prison guard tormenting Anerican prisoners, to the leadership in Tokoyo, the blame for destroying Nagasaki and Hiroshima only rests in the hands of the entirety of the Japanese people.


2 bombs, our two biggest bombs, ended the war. Nothing evil or murderous, simply two bombs.

If I was president I would of prayed to develop at least one earlier, to drop on Germany.

War is hell, a hell that must be fought, a hell that progressively gets worst the longer War continues.

20th century War certainly lived up to the hype and displayed our technological advances as only a War can.

I thank all the Americans still living that fought that war, this nemorial day I will take my boys to shake their hands, the very few of which are still alive.

 

[gipper]

P@triot Open Bolt Mushroom

At least the war criminals McNamara and LeMay aren’t as dumb as you guys.

Chris Hedges: The Lie of American Innocence​

Our hypocrisy on war crimes makes a rules-based world, one that abides by international law, impossible.​

by Chris Hedges

Civilians in every war since have been considered legitimate targets. In the summer of 1965, then-Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara called the bombing raids north of Saigon that left hundreds of thousands of dead an effective means of communication with the government in Hanoi. McNamara, six years before he died, unlike most war criminals, had the capacity for self-reflection. Interviewed in the documentary, “The Fog of War,” he was repentant, not only about targeting Vietnamese civilians but about the aerial targeting of civilians in Japan in World War II, overseen by Air Force General Curtis LeMay.

“LeMay said if we’d lost the war, we’d all have been prosecuted as war criminals,” McNamara said in the film. “And I think he’s right…LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose, and not immoral if you win?”

LeMay, later head of the Strategic Air Command during the Korean War, would go on to drop tons of napalm and firebombs on civilian targets in Korea which, by his own estimate, killed 20 percent of the population over a three-year period.
Chris Hedges: The Lie of American Innocence

 

[elektra]

P@triot Open Bolt Mushroom

At least the war criminals McNamara and LeMay aren’t as dumb as you guys.

Chris Hedges: The Lie of American Innocence​

Our hypocrisy on war crimes makes a rules-based world, one that abides by international law, impossible.​

by Chris Hedges

Civilians in every war since have been considered legitimate targets. In the summer of 1965, then-Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara called the bombing raids north of Saigon that left hundreds of thousands of dead an effective means of communication with the government in Hanoi. McNamara, six years before he died, unlike most war criminals, had the capacity for self-reflection. Interviewed in the documentary, “The Fog of War,” he was repentant, not only about targeting Vietnamese civilians but about the aerial targeting of civilians in Japan in World War II, overseen by Air Force General Curtis LeMay.

“LeMay said if we’d lost the war, we’d all have been prosecuted as war criminals,” McNamara said in the film. “And I think he’s right…LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose, and not immoral if you win?”

LeMay, later head of the Strategic Air Command during the Korean War, would go on to drop tons of napalm and firebombs on civilian targets in Korea which, by his own estimate, killed 20 percent of the population over a three-year period.
Chris Hedges: The Lie of American In

Chris Hedges is a lousy reporter and a worst person. A plagerist, fired, good for nothing person.

 

[gipper]

Chris Hedges is a lousy reporter and a worst person. A plagerist, fired, good for nothing person.

Typical.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Typical.

Ya we shoulda just let the Germans have Europe and Russia right? And we should have let North Korea have South Korea Right? You are a MORON incapable of independent thought.

 

[gipper]

Ya we shoulda just let the Germans have Europe and Russia right? And we should have let North Korea have South Korea Right? You are a MORON incapable of independent thought.

Typical ignorance of a statist warmongering dupe.

 

[elektra]

Typical.

I know, very typical of revisionists, plagiarism and then they are fired

 

[gipper]

I know, very typical of revisionists, plagiarism and then they are fired

Says the guy who believes the lying government.

 

[elektra]

Says the guy who believes the lying government.

There is much to believe and not to believe, this one is easy when all you can cite is has been hacks.

I actually wish you had more to offer, that is what makes things interesting. But when you link to the obvious idiots then all you deserve is scorn.

 

[Open Bolt]

At least the war criminals McNamara and LeMay aren’t as dumb as you guys.

Attacks on military targets are not war crimes. Telling the truth is not dumb.

 

[Open Bolt]

We were fighting a foreign military, not women, children and the elderly; not unarmed civilians.

That's why we dropped the atomic bombs on military targets.

So, over 100,000 civilians in a civilian city

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets.

was 'revenge' for a military attack on a military base that wasn't even in the United States? Can you find a military or political leader of the day who expressed the notion that it was an act of revenge? As for dropping a second atom bomb on behalf of other nations, good luck finding any shred of evidence that our motivation was thus?

The motivation for dropping the atomic bombs was the hope that doing so would further the cause of making Japan surrender to us.

 

[Open Bolt]

The bombs never should have been dropped. Just accept their surrender and go home. Imagine the thousands of lives saved on both sides, had that been done.

That would have cost the entire human race once the US and USSR got to the Cuban Missile Crisis without the example of Hiroshima to deter them from launching all their nukes at each other.

They tried to surrender many times.

That is incorrect. Japan did not try to surrender until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

You seem to think the Japanese people deserved it for the minor event that was Pearl Harbor. Most warlike of you.

If minor events are no big deal to you, then why are you complaining about the minor events at Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

The wanton massacring of civilians is a war crime.

That's why we dropped the atomic bombs on military targets.

By summer 1945 the only conditions they asked was not to harm the emperor. Truman agreed to that after he cold bloodedly massacred Japanese women and children at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

That is incorrect. Japan did not offer to surrender until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

Their post-atomic-bomb condition was a request that Hirohito retain unlimited dictatorial power as Japan's living deity.

Truman did not agree, and told them that Hirohito would be subordinate to MacArthur.

That’s as I thought. Americans like you believe mass murdering Japanese civilians by the hundreds of thousands was warranted because the Imperial Japanese government, of which the Japanese people had no control, attacked Pearl Harbor killing about 2000 US servicemen.

Attacks on military targets are not murder.

And while Pearl Harbor was unforgivable, don't forget the Bataan Death March.

 

[DudleySmith]

And while Pearl Harbor was unforgivable, don't forget the Bataan Death March.

Gipper and and the feces fetishist hate the U.S. and think the wrong people won both world wars, is all.

 

[Open Bolt]

No, they didn't.

Actually yes they did. Japan outright rejected the Potsdam Proclamation.

The "condition" in question was the retention of the emperor.

That was only asked for after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

And what they asked for was that Hirohito retain unlimited dictatorial power as Japan's living deity.

The "conditions" were exactly those that Truman agreed to after incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians and subjecting many, many more to radiation poisoning.

Mr. Truman certainly did not agree. He told Japan that Hirohito was going to be subordinate to MacArthur.

If the scumbag fdr weren't dead set on basking in the sea of civilian blood he had so long dreamed of, an end to the war might have been negotiated before the loss of American life at Iwo Jima, Okinawa, and the slaughter of an unconscionable number of civilians.

Except, it was Japan, not FDR or Truman, who needlessly prolonged the war.

This is something most Americans just can’t accept, even though it’s true.

Well, that's because it isn't true.

It’s been proven a thousand times, but you aren’t man enough to accept it. I get it.

Your falsehoods have never been proven.

It isn't even possible to prove a falsehood.

The truth is hardly anti American.

The trouble is, there is nothing true in what you say.

Besides why are you proud of your government for committing history’s greatest war crime?

Bombing military targets is in no way a war crime.

Why would you support the mass murdering of defenseless civilians?

Wartime strikes on military targets are not murder.

 

[Open Bolt]

That wasn’t merely hindsight. Eisenhower made the same argument in 1945.

Ike's 1945 opposition was pretty feeble.

Ike only voiced his opposition to a single person (his immediate superior Stimson).

Ike only voiced his opposition to Stimson on July 27, after the final orders to drop the atomic bombs had already been sent out to the military and Stimson had left the Potsdam conference to head back to Washington. Stimson was not back in the same room with Truman until after Hiroshima had already been bombed, so even if Ike had managed to be convincing, he was too late to stop the bombing of Hiroshima.

Ike was spectacularly unconvincing. By Ike's own account, Stimson all but called him an idiot.

 

[Open Bolt]

Our real history and the real truth is that fdr provoked the Japanese to attack us.

That's OK. Japan balanced it out by provoking the US into dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

[Open Bolt]

We didn't have a fifth bomb or a fourth bomb.

Atomic bomb number three was only a few days away from being dropped when Japan surrendered.

Had the war continued, we would have had atomic bombs number four, five, and six (maybe even seven) in September.

Numbers seven (if not already in September), eight, nine, and ten were due in October.

Atomic bombs number eleven through fifteen were due in November.

From December onward, atomic bomb production was really going to take off.

That was the point, we didn't have Bombs 3 and 4 until the END of 1945.

Bomb number three was only a few days away from being dropped when Japan surrendered.

Bomb number four would have been ready early in September.

After destroying Kokura Arsenal (and maybe hitting somewhere in Tokyo to give the Emperor a front row seat to a mushroom cloud) they were going to start saving up bombs and then use them all at once to clear the beaches when we invaded.

 

[Open Bolt]

I have quoted (many times) prominent US military leaders of that time who said that the bomb was unnecessary and immaterial to ending the war. Are they "revisionist historians"?

Who cares if the atomic bombs were necessary or material??

Japan was refusing to surrender so we kept attacking them.

If fdr were interested in protecting American lives he would have pursued the possibility of ending the war much sooner

Unfortunately there was no such possibility for him to pursue.

rather than ignoring MacArthur's 40-page communique informing him of Japanese overtures toward ending the war (again, under the exact same terms that Truman eventually accepted anyway).

The trouble is, it is hard not to ignore imaginary things that have never existed. Most people only pay attention to reality.

= empty speculation

Not at all. The facts just lead to a conclusion that you are wrong.

We will never know what might have happened because fdr rejected any possibility of peace out of hand. He had no interest in peace and so all those American servicemen, and all those civilians in Japan were bound to die to satisfy another bloodthirsty leftist like all the rest throughout history.

Except, it was Japan, not FDR, who rejected any possibility of peace out of hand.

Maybe nothing would have come from pursuing the many well-known overtures to an earlier peace, but we will never know.

Since the supposed overtures never existed, it can easily be concluded that nothing would ever come of them.

He most certainly did.

No he didn't.

MacArthur penned a 40-page letter to fdr himself outlining the peace overtures that he personally had learned of. This was even before Yalta. The scumbag fdr tossed it aside saying “MacArthur is our greatest general and our poorest politician.” Human life - of American servicemen or civilians anywhere - meant nothing more to him than a political game piece.

Fake news. Never happened.

The terms sought were exactly the ones Truman eventually accepted anyway.

Except Japan didn't seek those terms until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

And Truman didn't accept them. He refused to let Hirohito retain unlimited dictatorial power.

Yes, that's right. The only term insisted upon as a deal-breaker was the retention of the emperor.

That offer came only after both atomic bombs had already been dropped. Before then Japan was refusing to surrender.

And what Japan insisted on was that Hirohito retain unlimited dictatorial power as Japan's living deity.

Guess what Truman agreed to

Not that. Truman told Japan that Hirohito would be subordinate to MacArthur.

after incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians anyway?

The atomic bombs were dropped before Japan made any surrender offers.

And they were dropped on military targets.

The record is quite clear: From the perspective of an overwhelming number of key contemporary leaders in the US military, the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was not a matter of military necessity. American intelligence had broken the Japanese codes, knew the Japanese government was trying to negotiate surrender through Moscow, and had long advised that the expected early August Russian declaration of war, along with assurances that Japan’s Emperor would be allowed to stay as a powerless figurehead, would bring surrender long before the first step in a November US invasion, three months later, could begin.

Fake news. Mr. Truman never received any such advice.

Also, US intelligence knew no such thing. They had no idea what sort of game Japan was playing.

 

[Open Bolt]

Dropping two a-bombs on a defenseless nation is a war crime.

Wartime strikes on military targets are not war crimes. An example of a war crime is the peacetime attack on Pearl Harbor.

Japan was far from defenseless. They had millions of soldiers and thousands of kamikazes waiting to pounce on our guys when we invaded.

If you had any intelligence, you would know why Truman did it and it wasn’t to end the war. The war was already over.

The war was not over. Japan was still refusing to surrender when we dropped the atomic bombs on them.

You’re not informed. The Japanese tried to surrender several times. All ignored by the blood thirsty FDR and Dirty Harry.

Fake news. Never happened.

Japan didn't try to surrender until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

Unconditional surrender resulted in thousands of needless deaths, thanks to the two assholes in the White House.

Unconditional surrender was dropped when we issued the Potsdam Proclamation, which was a list of generous surrender terms.

Funny thing...after Truman mass murdered thousands of defenseless Japanese women and children with the two bombs,

Wartime strikes on military targets are not murder. An example of murder would be the peacetime attack on Pearl Harbor.

he agreed to the only condition Japan had asked for, that the US not hang Hirohito.

What Japan asked for after the atomic bombs were dropped was that Hirohito retain unlimited dictatorial power as Japan's living deity.

Truman told them that Hirohito would be subordinate to MacArthur.

Take it from me, they tried several times to surrender.

Japan did not try to surrender until after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

It’s clear the Japanese wanted to surrender, well before the two bombs.

If that's true, then it was their bad for not actually doing so.

Their only condition was the emperor. Truman refused and committed his war crime, then accepted their only condition.

Wartime strikes against military targets are not war crimes. An example of a war crime is the peacetime attack against Pearl Harbor.

And no, Truman never agreed to let Hirohito retain unlimited dictatorial power. He made Hirohito subordinate to MacArthur.

These facts are undeniable.
An intelligent person would question the use of the bombs based on these facts.

The trouble is, they are not facts. And as falsehoods, it is actually quite easy to deny them.

Even Secretary of War Henry Stimson, said: “the true question was not whether surrender could have been achieved without the use of the bomb but whether a different diplomatic and military course would have led to an earlier surrender. A large segment of the Japanese cabinet was ready in the spring of 1945 to accept substantially the same terms as those finally agreed on.” In other words, Stimson knew that the US had unnecessarily prolonged the war.

It was Japan that unnecessarily prolonged the war. The US had no control over Japan's refusal to surrender.

You’re not man enough to accept the truth.

The truth is Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets.

Imagine had the war ended early in 1945. Imagine the numbers of Americans who would have lived.

Actually that would have led to the extinction of the human race once the US and USSR got to the Cuban Missile Crisis without the example of Hiroshima to restrain them.

In essence, this means your beloved FDR and Truman were traitors.

No it doesn't. They had no control over the fact that Japan was refusing to surrender.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I have asked repeatedly for a link to this 40 page letter of Mac's he has never provided it. Nor any links to any supposed peace offers from the Big6