The no more states solution

[Shusha]

A third possibility for a solution to the conflict would be a "no more states" solution -- where the "occupied" territory is divided between the existing states of Israel, Jordan and Egypt.

One advantage to this might be the dispersing of the more extreme elements into a wider and more accepting population, hopefully reducing the conflict. It seems to me that many, many Arab Palestinians would be content with living in Jordan as part of the Jordanian peoples. (As with every solution, Gaza remains much more of a problem.) Another advantage might be international support for maintaining good relations between the three nations. And none of the countries will have to take on the entire population.

On the other hand, dispersal of extremist elements might turn countries like Jordan the other direction and create a larger war between Israel and Jordan.

And while many Palestinians, possibly even the majority, consider themselves to be no different than Syrians and Jordanians, this solution does prevent Palestinian self-determination.

Thoughts?

 

[Onyx]

That wouldn't be a no state solution. A no state solution would be anarchy, where both Israeli and Palestinians coexisted in a stateless society.

 

[teddyearp]

Here's my thoughts. It will not work.

Although Israel is constantly demonized for their 'blockade' of the Gaza strip, no one seems to mention nor demonize Egypt for their blockade of the portion of the Gaza strip that borders their country.

Egypt doesn't want anything to do with them.

At one time, 'Palestinians' living in the west bank were part of Jordan and even given Jordanian citizenship and passports. However, after the six day war and Arafat's creation of a new Palestinian peoples, they actually tried to take over the whole of Jordan from the Hashemite kingdom. Remember Black September?

The civil war determined if Jordan would be ruled by the Palestine Liberation Organisation or the Hashemite monarchy.[6] The war resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority Palestinian.[3] Armed conflict ended with the expulsion of the PLO leadership

Link:Black September - Wikipedia

Jordan no longer wants anything to do with them.

And Jordan isn't demonized here for that either.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A third possibility for a solution to the conflict would be a "no more states" solution -- where the "occupied" territory is divided between the existing states of Israel, Jordan and Egypt.

One advantage to this might be the dispersing of the more extreme elements into a wider and more accepting population, hopefully reducing the conflict. It seems to me that many, many Arab Palestinians would be content with living in Jordan as part of the Jordanian peoples. (As with every solution, Gaza remains much more of a problem.) Another advantage might be international support for maintaining good relations between the three nations. And none of the countries will have to take on the entire population.

On the other hand, dispersal of extremist elements might turn countries like Jordan the other direction and create a larger war between Israel and Jordan.

And while many Palestinians, possibly even the majority, consider themselves to be no different than Syrians and Jordanians, this solution does prevent Palestinian self-determination.

Thoughts?

Jordan and Egypt don't want Palestinian trouble makers.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I think Gaza returning to Egypt and the west bank to Jordan is certainingly better than a two state solution.

Since the so-called "Palestinians" are a completely made up people, however, why not a three state solution? Gaza could be one state, the west bank another, and Israel the third. That way, when Gazan terrorists lob rockets into Israel, it would be considered an act of war, and Israel would only need to contend with them on that front. If the west bank needed defining as to territorial boundaries, that would be a separate issue. I see no reason for a bifurcated state as it leads to logistical difficulties, and the clans involved are different.

 

[MJB12741]

Here's my thoughts. It will not work.

Although Israel is constantly demonized for their 'blockade' of the Gaza strip, no one seems to mention nor demonize Egypt for their blockade of the portion of the Gaza strip that borders their country.

Egypt doesn't want anything to do with them.

At one time, 'Palestinians' living in the west bank were part of Jordan and even given Jordanian citizenship and passports. However, after the six day war and Arafat's creation of a new Palestinian peoples, they actually tried to take over the whole of Jordan from the Hashemite kingdom. Remember Black September?

The civil war determined if Jordan would be ruled by the Palestine Liberation Organisation or the Hashemite monarchy.[6] The war resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority Palestinian.[3] Armed conflict ended with the expulsion of the PLO leadership

Link:Black September - Wikipedia

Jordan no longer wants anything to do with them.

And Jordan isn't demonized here for that either.

Over & over again I have said basically the same thing. Israel must stop their damn Zionist agenda of placating Palestinian demands only to be rewarded with more hatred & rocket missiles & start treating the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers do in Arab countries where there is no Palestinian or Pali supporter hatred, complaints or condemnation. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

 

[Shusha]

Here's my thoughts. It will not work.

Although Israel is constantly demonized for their 'blockade' of the Gaza strip, no one seems to mention nor demonize Egypt for their blockade of the portion of the Gaza strip that borders their country.

Egypt doesn't want anything to do with them.

At one time, 'Palestinians' living in the west bank were part of Jordan and even given Jordanian citizenship and passports. However, after the six day war and Arafat's creation of a new Palestinian peoples, they actually tried to take over the whole of Jordan from the Hashemite kingdom. Remember Black September?

The civil war determined if Jordan would be ruled by the Palestine Liberation Organisation or the Hashemite monarchy.[6] The war resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority Palestinian.[3] Armed conflict ended with the expulsion of the PLO leadership

Link:Black September - Wikipedia

Jordan no longer wants anything to do with them.

And Jordan isn't demonized here for that either.

Sure. I don't disagree. BUT Jordan is not the same as the Jordan of 1967. Jordan has had a chance to grow and develop. And it might be possible to create a semi-autonomous state of Palestine with Jordanian federal jurisdiction that would both support Palestinian independence while providing some guidance and a measure of limitation.

In addition, Israel will continue to ally itself with Jordan -- so it will be the big guys Jordan and Israel who monitor and control any bad behavior on the part of the Palestinians. That is a huge shift from 1967.

And I wholeheartedly agree no one wants anything to do with Gaza. Most understandably.

 

[Shusha]

I think Gaza returning to Egypt and the west bank to Jordan is certainingly better than a two state solution.

Since the so-called "Palestinians" are a completely made up people, however, why not a three state solution? Gaza could be one state, the west bank another, and Israel the third. That way, when Gazan terrorists lob rockets into Israel, it would be considered an act of war, and Israel would only need to contend with them on that front. If the west bank needed defining as to territorial boundaries, that would be a separate issue. I see no reason for a bifurcated state as it leads to logistical difficulties, and the clans involved are different.

Please weigh in on the "two state solution" thread that Lipush started. I'd love your input there. Both the pro-Israels and the pro-Palestine members seem to agree that is the best solution. We've even banged out a reasonable plan for territory and borders, and a few other things. Its the anti-Israel crowd that won't buy that chocolate.

 

[MJB12741]

Here's my thoughts. It will not work.

Although Israel is constantly demonized for their 'blockade' of the Gaza strip, no one seems to mention nor demonize Egypt for their blockade of the portion of the Gaza strip that borders their country.

Egypt doesn't want anything to do with them.

At one time, 'Palestinians' living in the west bank were part of Jordan and even given Jordanian citizenship and passports. However, after the six day war and Arafat's creation of a new Palestinian peoples, they actually tried to take over the whole of Jordan from the Hashemite kingdom. Remember Black September?

The civil war determined if Jordan would be ruled by the Palestine Liberation Organisation or the Hashemite monarchy.[6] The war resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority Palestinian.[3] Armed conflict ended with the expulsion of the PLO leadership

Link:Black September - Wikipedia

Jordan no longer wants anything to do with them.

And Jordan isn't demonized here for that either.

Sure. I don't disagree. BUT Jordan is not the same as the Jordan of 1967. Jordan has had a chance to grow and develop. And it might be possible to create a semi-autonomous state of Palestine with Jordanian federal jurisdiction that would both support Palestinian independence while providing some guidance and a measure of limitation.

In addition, Israel will continue to ally itself with Jordan -- so it will be the big guys Jordan and Israel who monitor and control any bad behavior on the part of the Palestinians. That is a huge shift from 1967.

And I wholeheartedly agree no one wants anything to do with Gaza. Most understandably.

Not a chance. Jordan wants nothing whatsoever to do with Palestinians. How relieved was Jordan to dump them on Israel to deal with after the 67 war.

 

[teddyearp]

Not a chance. Jordan wants nothing whatsoever to do with Palestinians. How relieved was Jordan to dump them on Israel to deal with after the 67 war.

Not meaning to split hairs, but Jordan didn't actually relinquish (in their mind if nothing else) the West Bank until 1988.

I just wish that Israel could get the control of the Temple Mount out of the hands of the Waqf without creating imagined problems. Because any 'problems' that would portend would be 'imagined'.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Ethnically cleanse the Palestinians: send them to Madagascar.

 

[montelatici]

Here's my thoughts. It will not work.

Although Israel is constantly demonized for their 'blockade' of the Gaza strip, no one seems to mention nor demonize Egypt for their blockade of the portion of the Gaza strip that borders their country.

Egypt doesn't want anything to do with them.

At one time, 'Palestinians' living in the west bank were part of Jordan and even given Jordanian citizenship and passports. However, after the six day war and Arafat's creation of a new Palestinian peoples, they actually tried to take over the whole of Jordan from the Hashemite kingdom. Remember Black September?

The civil war determined if Jordan would be ruled by the Palestine Liberation Organisation or the Hashemite monarchy.[6] The war resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority Palestinian.[3] Armed conflict ended with the expulsion of the PLO leadership

Link:Black September - Wikipedia

Jordan no longer wants anything to do with them.

And Jordan isn't demonized here for that either.

The reason Egypt isn't demonized is because the U.S. forces Egypt to maintain the blockade on behalf of Israel, or lose its U.S. aid. You weren't aware of that? Before the military coup that put the military back in charge, the only democratically elected leader of Egypt in history, Morsi, opened the border and the U.S. stopped aid to Egypt. The military, was obviously upset and overthrew the democratically elected president, with the help of the U.S. and Israel, of course.

 

[montelatici]

Here's my thoughts. It will not work.

Although Israel is constantly demonized for their 'blockade' of the Gaza strip, no one seems to mention nor demonize Egypt for their blockade of the portion of the Gaza strip that borders their country.

Egypt doesn't want anything to do with them.

At one time, 'Palestinians' living in the west bank were part of Jordan and even given Jordanian citizenship and passports. However, after the six day war and Arafat's creation of a new Palestinian peoples, they actually tried to take over the whole of Jordan from the Hashemite kingdom. Remember Black September?

The civil war determined if Jordan would be ruled by the Palestine Liberation Organisation or the Hashemite monarchy.[6] The war resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority Palestinian.[3] Armed conflict ended with the expulsion of the PLO leadership

Link:Black September - Wikipedia

Jordan no longer wants anything to do with them.

And Jordan isn't demonized here for that either.

Sure. I don't disagree. BUT Jordan is not the same as the Jordan of 1967. Jordan has had a chance to grow and develop. And it might be possible to create a semi-autonomous state of Palestine with Jordanian federal jurisdiction that would both support Palestinian independence while providing some guidance and a measure of limitation.

In addition, Israel will continue to ally itself with Jordan -- so it will be the big guys Jordan and Israel who monitor and control any bad behavior on the part of the Palestinians. That is a huge shift from 1967.

And I wholeheartedly agree no one wants anything to do with Gaza. Most understandably.

Not a chance. Jordan wants nothing whatsoever to do with Palestinians. How relieved was Jordan to dump them on Israel to deal with after the 67 war.

Jordan was a state created for its native people, the Hashemite Bedouins. Of course they want to keep their own culture, they are the native people after all. The Palestinians have to work to get their native land back from the invading Zionists under some sort of power sharing scheme with them, not try to subvert native people elsewhere.

 

[teddyearp]

The reason Egypt isn't demonized is because the U.S. forces Egypt to maintain the blockade on behalf of Israel, or lose its U.S. aid. You weren't aware of that? Before the military coup that put the military back in charge, the only democratically elected leader of Egypt in history, Morsi, opened the border and the U.S. stopped aid to Egypt. The military, was obviously upset and overthrew the democratically elected president, with the help of the U.S. and Israel, of course.

Interesting. Do have any credible source(s) that can substantiate your claim(s) that you would share with the board?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The reason Egypt isn't demonized is because the U.S. forces Egypt to maintain the blockade on behalf of Israel, or lose its U.S. aid. You weren't aware of that? Before the military coup that put the military back in charge, the only democratically elected leader of Egypt in history, Morsi, opened the border and the U.S. stopped aid to Egypt. The military, was obviously upset and overthrew the democratically elected president, with the help of the U.S. and Israel, of course.

Interesting. Do have any credible source(s) that can substantiate your claim(s) that you would share with the board?

It was part of the 1979 peace agreement. I thought everyone knew that.

 

[Hollie]

Here's my thoughts. It will not work.

Although Israel is constantly demonized for their 'blockade' of the Gaza strip, no one seems to mention nor demonize Egypt for their blockade of the portion of the Gaza strip that borders their country.

Egypt doesn't want anything to do with them.

At one time, 'Palestinians' living in the west bank were part of Jordan and even given Jordanian citizenship and passports. However, after the six day war and Arafat's creation of a new Palestinian peoples, they actually tried to take over the whole of Jordan from the Hashemite kingdom. Remember Black September?

The civil war determined if Jordan would be ruled by the Palestine Liberation Organisation or the Hashemite monarchy.[6] The war resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority Palestinian.[3] Armed conflict ended with the expulsion of the PLO leadership

Link:Black September - Wikipedia

Jordan no longer wants anything to do with them.

And Jordan isn't demonized here for that either.

The reason Egypt isn't demonized is because the U.S. forces Egypt to maintain the blockade on behalf of Israel, or lose its U.S. aid. You weren't aware of that? Before the military coup that put the military back in charge, the only democratically elected leader of Egypt in history, Morsi, opened the border and the U.S. stopped aid to Egypt. The military, was obviously upset and overthrew the democratically elected president, with the help of the U.S. and Israel, of course.

Why is it that the extreme Jew haters are relegated to goofy conspiracy theories to buttress their irrational fantasies?

 

[yiostheoy]

A third possibility for a solution to the conflict would be a "no more states" solution -- where the "occupied" territory is divided between the existing states of Israel, Jordan and Egypt.

One advantage to this might be the dispersing of the more extreme elements into a wider and more accepting population, hopefully reducing the conflict. It seems to me that many, many Arab Palestinians would be content with living in Jordan as part of the Jordanian peoples. (As with every solution, Gaza remains much more of a problem.) Another advantage might be international support for maintaining good relations between the three nations. And none of the countries will have to take on the entire population.

On the other hand, dispersal of extremist elements might turn countries like Jordan the other direction and create a larger war between Israel and Jordan.

And while many Palestinians, possibly even the majority, consider themselves to be no different than Syrians and Jordanians, this solution does prevent Palestinian self-determination.

Thoughts?

Israel occupies this land.

This land belongs to Israel.

End of B/S.

 

[montelatici]

The reason Egypt isn't demonized is because the U.S. forces Egypt to maintain the blockade on behalf of Israel, or lose its U.S. aid. You weren't aware of that? Before the military coup that put the military back in charge, the only democratically elected leader of Egypt in history, Morsi, opened the border and the U.S. stopped aid to Egypt. The military, was obviously upset and overthrew the democratically elected president, with the help of the U.S. and Israel, of course.

Interesting. Do have any credible source(s) that can substantiate your claim(s) that you would share with the board?

This is common knowledge.

http://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/Pcaab954.pdf

 

[Humanity]

Here's my thoughts. It will not work.

Although Israel is constantly demonized for their 'blockade' of the Gaza strip, no one seems to mention nor demonize Egypt for their blockade of the portion of the Gaza strip that borders their country.

Egypt doesn't want anything to do with them.

At one time, 'Palestinians' living in the west bank were part of Jordan and even given Jordanian citizenship and passports. However, after the six day war and Arafat's creation of a new Palestinian peoples, they actually tried to take over the whole of Jordan from the Hashemite kingdom. Remember Black September?

The civil war determined if Jordan would be ruled by the Palestine Liberation Organisation or the Hashemite monarchy.[6] The war resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority Palestinian.[3] Armed conflict ended with the expulsion of the PLO leadership

Link:Black September - Wikipedia

Jordan no longer wants anything to do with them.

And Jordan isn't demonized here for that either.

Sure. I don't disagree. BUT Jordan is not the same as the Jordan of 1967. Jordan has had a chance to grow and develop. And it might be possible to create a semi-autonomous state of Palestine with Jordanian federal jurisdiction that would both support Palestinian independence while providing some guidance and a measure of limitation.

In addition, Israel will continue to ally itself with Jordan -- so it will be the big guys Jordan and Israel who monitor and control any bad behavior on the part of the Palestinians. That is a huge shift from 1967.

And I wholeheartedly agree no one wants anything to do with Gaza. Most understandably.

I had not thought of this as a possible solution...

I quite like the idea though with reservations...

Creating a semi autonomous region is ok but could be a 'short term' solution as there may be a call in the future for an 'independence'...

If the semi autonomous state were within Jordan then it would be Jordan who would do the 'monitoring' ... Sure, I would expect Israel to keep an eye on things but Israel could not 'monitor' within Jordan...

 

[Sixties Fan]

Here's my thoughts. It will not work.

Although Israel is constantly demonized for their 'blockade' of the Gaza strip, no one seems to mention nor demonize Egypt for their blockade of the portion of the Gaza strip that borders their country.

Egypt doesn't want anything to do with them.

At one time, 'Palestinians' living in the west bank were part of Jordan and even given Jordanian citizenship and passports. However, after the six day war and Arafat's creation of a new Palestinian peoples, they actually tried to take over the whole of Jordan from the Hashemite kingdom. Remember Black September?

The civil war determined if Jordan would be ruled by the Palestine Liberation Organisation or the Hashemite monarchy.[6] The war resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority Palestinian.[3] Armed conflict ended with the expulsion of the PLO leadership

Link:Black September - Wikipedia

Jordan no longer wants anything to do with them.

And Jordan isn't demonized here for that either.

Sure. I don't disagree. BUT Jordan is not the same as the Jordan of 1967. Jordan has had a chance to grow and develop. And it might be possible to create a semi-autonomous state of Palestine with Jordanian federal jurisdiction that would both support Palestinian independence while providing some guidance and a measure of limitation.

In addition, Israel will continue to ally itself with Jordan -- so it will be the big guys Jordan and Israel who monitor and control any bad behavior on the part of the Palestinians. That is a huge shift from 1967.

And I wholeheartedly agree no one wants anything to do with Gaza. Most understandably.

Is anyone taking into consideration that both Egypt and Jordan took Gaza and Judea/Samaria (West Bank) in order to either annex them (Jordan) or simply dump unwanted Arabs into the area (Gaza)?

Egypt during the Peace Treaty would not take Gaza back from Israel mainly to stick Israel with the conditions which grew out of it, which turned Gaza as a weapon against Israel. Even with Israel totally withdrawing from Gaza in 2005, the reason Gaza exists continues to be clear.

Egypt has refused recently creating a Palestinian State in the Sinai Peninsula as a continuation of Gaza, considering the size of the land. I think the idea was mainly getting all Muslims from Judea, Samaria, East Jerusalem, who wanted their own Muslim State to create it in that area.
Those who wanted to live under Israel's sovereignty and would not be a threat to the country would remain in Israel, Judea and Samaria. And there are many Muslim Arabs who do want to stay
with Israel, rather than a Palestine State.

Here are the problems:

Islam and its teachings
Hamas and the PLO/PA/Fatah charters which call for the destruction of Israel
Endless donations from Qatar, EU, Iran etc in order to help the two main organizations attempt to fulfill their charters.

Solutions:
One needs to put an end to any and all money going to Hamas/Gaza and the PA which only perpetuates the conflict.

The only way Egypt and Jordan agreed to a Peace Treaty with Israel is because their economy suffered from so many attacks on Israel and nearly brought both new countries down.
-------

Neither Hamas nor the PA see anything to lose, as the leaders and their families and friends live a luxurious life paid by the Arab countries and some Western countries as well.

Hizbollah is also a problem as it is weaponized by Iran.

So, Hamas, the PA/PLO, Hizbollah, Iran, and other players in the conflict are basically the ones keeping the conflict going and the possibility of Palestine State null and void.

Arafat did not sign the Oslo Accords in order to prepare the Arabs for Peace with Israel.

Arafat did what Mohammad did. He signed treaties and then when least expected he attacked Israel, as he did from 2000 on.

In looking for a solution, one must know what Islam stands for from Mohammad to Husseini, to Arafat, to Abbas, Mashall, the Ayatollah and other leaders who do follow Islamic teachings to the letter.

One State Solution which the Arabs/Muslims will agree on, allowing Israel to continue to exit.


How can the world help to arrive to it?