RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Outcomes
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
BLUF: The term "win" or "lose" in the regards to combat gains or losses is rather an obsolete line of thought and termonology. It is an unsophisticate and crude (over symplistic) way of stating the nature of territorial control, political achivements, and battle engagements.
(COMMENT)
When you talk about accomplishments at the stratigic advvantages of a region (militarily economically, diplomatically, territrorially, etc), you are better able to discuss the degree to which the nature of territorial control, political achivements, and battlefield assessments of victories might be practically discussed.
To suggest that Israel won or lost any of the territory it is now in control of and responsible → is just as absurd as questioning the "win" • "loss" statistics as if it were a game. Anyone who (like myself) has been to Afganistan, Iraq, Vietnam, or Yemen knows better then to treat it as a game. There is no real rule book.
If you apply deeper meaning into the what our friend "toddsterpatriot" said, there is something about it that rings true. After the UN Charter (1945) became effective the monitoing of the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine fell under the responsibility of International Trusteeship System; less - of course, that which was earmarked the Jewish State and the Arab State.
The Arab League States (in particular Egypt and Jordan) took control of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, and Jersualem. The first established a Military Governship and the second Annex the territory by extending Sovereignty. Was the territory "won" or "lost"? (RHETORICAL) NO... You can see that the duration of control was temporary, not all that long. By 1988, the Irsaelis had extended - what was termed → "effective control." And while we may argue about what the meaning is for these terms, the one "fact" is that until 2006, the Arab Palestinians had no real control over the political agency of control for became segmented.
In this little description you can see why the terms "win" or "loss" are not really descriptive. An "occupation" is defined by Article 42 of the 1907 Hague Regulations (HR). It is very clear and uncomplicated.
"Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised."
(QUESTIONS)
When an Army extends over more territory than what they started with, what is that called?
When a Political Entity is offered more territory during the peace before a conflict → than it controls at the end of the conflict, what is that called?
(Ω)
The "Tinmore" question is very symplistic, too simplistic to answer.
.
Most Respectfully,
R
By the end of the war Israel had "control" of 78% of Palestine.
Leadership changes fast when invaded by a hostile country like the Zionists.
{... An Arab summit meeting in Cairo in 1964 led to the formation of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). A political umbrella organization of several Palestinian groups, the PLO thereafter consistently claimed to be the sole representative of all Palestinian people. Its first leader was Aḥmad Shuqayrī, a protégé of Egypt.
...
Several years before the creation of the PLO, a secret organization had been formed: the Palestine National Liberation Movement (Ḥarakat al-Taḥrīr al-Waṭanī al-Filasṭīnī), known from a reversal of its Arabic initials as Fatah. ...}
What was stolen was land, so currency has nothing at all to do with it.
Zionist murdered, looted, and stole hundreds of Arab villages from the native Palestinians.
{...
If one chief theme in the post-1948 pattern was embattled Israel and a second the hostility of its Arab neighbours, a third was the plight of the huge number of Arab refugees. The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab population, who either were driven out by Zionist military forces before May 15, 1948, or by the Israeli army after that date or fled for fear of violence by these forces. Many wealthy merchants and leading urban notables from Jaffa, Tel Aviv, Haifa, and Jerusalem fled to Lebanon, Egypt, and Jordan, while the middle class tended to move to all-Arab towns such as Nāblus and Nazareth. The majority of fellahin ended up in refugee camps. More than 400 Arab villages disappeared, and Arab life in the coastal cities (especially Jaffa and Haifa) virtually disintegrated.
...}
Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict | Britannica
Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict: If one chief theme in the post-1948 pattern was embattled Israel and a second the hostility of its Arab neighbors, a third was the plight of the huge number of Arab refugees. The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab...www.britannica.com
Leadership changes fast when invaded by a hostile country like the Zionists.
Especially in the 1920s.
What was stolen was land, so currency has nothing at all to do with it.
How can you steal land from a country that has no leaders and no currency?
Now, tell me more about those 100 US planes you smoked up.......
They were ready in May 1948.
Israeli Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The Arab "Palestinians", still not ready.......
Obviously the Palestinians are not ready because they were illegally invaded by Israel.
To be ready, they would need arms and an army that could defend themselves.
And the illegal occupation by Israel prevents that.
Obviously the Palestinians are not ready because they were illegally invaded by Israel.
Back in the 1920s, when the nation of Palestine was created by treaty? Sneaky Jews.
To be ready, they would need arms and an army that could defend themselves.
And they'd have to work at it. Their whining doesn't count as work.
Leadership changes fast when invaded by a hostile country like the Zionists.
{... An Arab summit meeting in Cairo in 1964 led to the formation of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). A political umbrella organization of several Palestinian groups, the PLO thereafter consistently claimed to be the sole representative of all Palestinian people. Its first leader was Aḥmad Shuqayrī, a protégé of Egypt.
...
Several years before the creation of the PLO, a secret organization had been formed: the Palestine National Liberation Movement (Ḥarakat al-Taḥrīr al-Waṭanī al-Filasṭīnī), known from a reversal of its Arabic initials as Fatah. ...}
What was stolen was land, so currency has nothing at all to do with it.
Zionist murdered, looted, and stole hundreds of Arab villages from the native Palestinians.
{...
If one chief theme in the post-1948 pattern was embattled Israel and a second the hostility of its Arab neighbours, a third was the plight of the huge number of Arab refugees. The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab population, who either were driven out by Zionist military forces before May 15, 1948, or by the Israeli army after that date or fled for fear of violence by these forces. Many wealthy merchants and leading urban notables from Jaffa, Tel Aviv, Haifa, and Jerusalem fled to Lebanon, Egypt, and Jordan, while the middle class tended to move to all-Arab towns such as Nāblus and Nazareth. The majority of fellahin ended up in refugee camps. More than 400 Arab villages disappeared, and Arab life in the coastal cities (especially Jaffa and Haifa) virtually disintegrated.
...}
Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict | Britannica
Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict: If one chief theme in the post-1948 pattern was embattled Israel and a second the hostility of its Arab neighbors, a third was the plight of the huge number of Arab refugees. The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab...
Leadership changes fast when invaded by a hostile country like the Zionists.
Especially in the 1920s.
What was stolen was land, so currency has nothing at all to do with it.
How can you steal land from a country that has no leaders and no currency?
Now, tell me more about those 100 US planes you smoked up.......
That is stupid.
Land is owned by individual property owners, not countries.
And Zionists murdered natives in order to steal their homes.
Almost no one in Israel has ever paid for their homes because they were almost all stolen from the natives.
That is trillions that need to get paid back.
Leadership changes fast when invaded by a hostile country like the Zionists.
{... An Arab summit meeting in Cairo in 1964 led to the formation of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). A political umbrella organization of several Palestinian groups, the PLO thereafter consistently claimed to be the sole representative of all Palestinian people. Its first leader was Aḥmad Shuqayrī, a protégé of Egypt.
...
Several years before the creation of the PLO, a secret organization had been formed: the Palestine National Liberation Movement (Ḥarakat al-Taḥrīr al-Waṭanī al-Filasṭīnī), known from a reversal of its Arabic initials as Fatah. ...}
What was stolen was land, so currency has nothing at all to do with it.
Zionist murdered, looted, and stole hundreds of Arab villages from the native Palestinians.
{...
If one chief theme in the post-1948 pattern was embattled Israel and a second the hostility of its Arab neighbours, a third was the plight of the huge number of Arab refugees. The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab population, who either were driven out by Zionist military forces before May 15, 1948, or by the Israeli army after that date or fled for fear of violence by these forces. Many wealthy merchants and leading urban notables from Jaffa, Tel Aviv, Haifa, and Jerusalem fled to Lebanon, Egypt, and Jordan, while the middle class tended to move to all-Arab towns such as Nāblus and Nazareth. The majority of fellahin ended up in refugee camps. More than 400 Arab villages disappeared, and Arab life in the coastal cities (especially Jaffa and Haifa) virtually disintegrated.
...}
Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict | Britannica
Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict: If one chief theme in the post-1948 pattern was embattled Israel and a second the hostility of its Arab neighbors, a third was the plight of the huge number of Arab refugees. The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab...
Leadership changes fast when invaded by a hostile country like the Zionists.
Especially in the 1920s.
What was stolen was land, so currency has nothing at all to do with it.
How can you steal land from a country that has no leaders and no currency?
Now, tell me more about those 100 US planes you smoked up.......
That is stupid.
Land is owned by individual property owners, not countries.
And Zionists murdered natives in order to steal their homes.
Almost no one in Israel has ever paid for their homes because they were almost all stolen from the natives.
That is trillions that need to get paid back.
Land is owned by individual property owners, not countries.
Yeah, but talking about the Ottoman owners is so boring.
Almost no one in Israel has ever paid for their homes because they were almost all stolen from the natives.
6 million Jews got their homes from a couple hundred thousand Palestinians? Sounds crowded.
The Ottoman invaders were rulers, not owners of individual plots of land.
Leadership changes fast when invaded by a hostile country like the Zionists.
{... An Arab summit meeting in Cairo in 1964 led to the formation of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). A political umbrella organization of several Palestinian groups, the PLO thereafter consistently claimed to be the sole representative of all Palestinian people. Its first leader was Aḥmad Shuqayrī, a protégé of Egypt.
...
Several years before the creation of the PLO, a secret organization had been formed: the Palestine National Liberation Movement (Ḥarakat al-Taḥrīr al-Waṭanī al-Filasṭīnī), known from a reversal of its Arabic initials as Fatah. ...}
What was stolen was land, so currency has nothing at all to do with it.
Zionist murdered, looted, and stole hundreds of Arab villages from the native Palestinians.
{...
If one chief theme in the post-1948 pattern was embattled Israel and a second the hostility of its Arab neighbours, a third was the plight of the huge number of Arab refugees. The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab population, who either were driven out by Zionist military forces before May 15, 1948, or by the Israeli army after that date or fled for fear of violence by these forces. Many wealthy merchants and leading urban notables from Jaffa, Tel Aviv, Haifa, and Jerusalem fled to Lebanon, Egypt, and Jordan, while the middle class tended to move to all-Arab towns such as Nāblus and Nazareth. The majority of fellahin ended up in refugee camps. More than 400 Arab villages disappeared, and Arab life in the coastal cities (especially Jaffa and Haifa) virtually disintegrated.
...}
Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict | Britannica
Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict: If one chief theme in the post-1948 pattern was embattled Israel and a second the hostility of its Arab neighbors, a third was the plight of the huge number of Arab refugees. The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab...
Leadership changes fast when invaded by a hostile country like the Zionists.
Especially in the 1920s.
What was stolen was land, so currency has nothing at all to do with it.
How can you steal land from a country that has no leaders and no currency?
Now, tell me more about those 100 US planes you smoked up.......
That is stupid.
Land is owned by individual property owners, not countries.
And Zionists murdered natives in order to steal their homes.
Almost no one in Israel has ever paid for their homes because they were almost all stolen from the natives.
That is trillions that need to get paid back.
Land is owned by individual property owners, not countries.
Yeah, but talking about the Ottoman owners is so boring.
Almost no one in Israel has ever paid for their homes because they were almost all stolen from the natives.
6 million Jews got their homes from a couple hundred thousand Palestinians? Sounds crowded.
Wrong.
The Ottoman invaders were rulers, not owners of individual plots of land.
The Palestinians had ownership of all the plots of land, including all of Israel.
There is hardly a parcel in Israel that is not actually legally owned by Arabs.
The exception would be the Old Jewish Quarter of the West Bank, where some native Jews lived.
And no, over a million Arabs were illegally displaced by Zionists.
www.researchgate.net
The Ottoman invaders were rulers, not owners of individual plots of land.
Leadership changes fast when invaded by a hostile country like the Zionists.
{... An Arab summit meeting in Cairo in 1964 led to the formation of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). A political umbrella organization of several Palestinian groups, the PLO thereafter consistently claimed to be the sole representative of all Palestinian people. Its first leader was Aḥmad Shuqayrī, a protégé of Egypt.
...
Several years before the creation of the PLO, a secret organization had been formed: the Palestine National Liberation Movement (Ḥarakat al-Taḥrīr al-Waṭanī al-Filasṭīnī), known from a reversal of its Arabic initials as Fatah. ...}
What was stolen was land, so currency has nothing at all to do with it.
Zionist murdered, looted, and stole hundreds of Arab villages from the native Palestinians.
{...
If one chief theme in the post-1948 pattern was embattled Israel and a second the hostility of its Arab neighbours, a third was the plight of the huge number of Arab refugees. The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab population, who either were driven out by Zionist military forces before May 15, 1948, or by the Israeli army after that date or fled for fear of violence by these forces. Many wealthy merchants and leading urban notables from Jaffa, Tel Aviv, Haifa, and Jerusalem fled to Lebanon, Egypt, and Jordan, while the middle class tended to move to all-Arab towns such as Nāblus and Nazareth. The majority of fellahin ended up in refugee camps. More than 400 Arab villages disappeared, and Arab life in the coastal cities (especially Jaffa and Haifa) virtually disintegrated.
...}
Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict | Britannica
Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict: If one chief theme in the post-1948 pattern was embattled Israel and a second the hostility of its Arab neighbors, a third was the plight of the huge number of Arab refugees. The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab...
Leadership changes fast when invaded by a hostile country like the Zionists.
Especially in the 1920s.
What was stolen was land, so currency has nothing at all to do with it.
How can you steal land from a country that has no leaders and no currency?
Now, tell me more about those 100 US planes you smoked up.......
That is stupid.
Land is owned by individual property owners, not countries.
And Zionists murdered natives in order to steal their homes.
Almost no one in Israel has ever paid for their homes because they were almost all stolen from the natives.
That is trillions that need to get paid back.
Land is owned by individual property owners, not countries.
Yeah, but talking about the Ottoman owners is so boring.
Almost no one in Israel has ever paid for their homes because they were almost all stolen from the natives.
6 million Jews got their homes from a couple hundred thousand Palestinians? Sounds crowded.
Wrong.
The Ottoman invaders were rulers, not owners of individual plots of land.
The Palestinians had ownership of all the plots of land, including all of Israel.
There is hardly a parcel in Israel that is not actually legally owned by Arabs.
The exception would be the Old Jewish Quarter of the West Bank, where some native Jews lived.
And no, over a million Arabs were illegally displaced by Zionists.
(PDF) Consequences of the Ottoman Land Law: Agrarian and Privatization Processes in Palestine, 1858–1918
PDF | The Land Law and other processes in nineteenth century Palestine brought about the beginning of land survey and land settlement , land... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate
The Palestinians had ownership of all the plots of land, including all of Israel.
LOL!
And no, over a million Arabs were illegally displaced by Zionists
I saw your silliness the first time.
So over 6 million Jews now live in those houses. SOUNDS CROWDED moron
www.britannica.com
The Ottoman invaders were rulers, not owners of individual plots of land.
Leadership changes fast when invaded by a hostile country like the Zionists.
{... An Arab summit meeting in Cairo in 1964 led to the formation of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). A political umbrella organization of several Palestinian groups, the PLO thereafter consistently claimed to be the sole representative of all Palestinian people. Its first leader was Aḥmad Shuqayrī, a protégé of Egypt.
...
Several years before the creation of the PLO, a secret organization had been formed: the Palestine National Liberation Movement (Ḥarakat al-Taḥrīr al-Waṭanī al-Filasṭīnī), known from a reversal of its Arabic initials as Fatah. ...}
What was stolen was land, so currency has nothing at all to do with it.
Zionist murdered, looted, and stole hundreds of Arab villages from the native Palestinians.
{...
If one chief theme in the post-1948 pattern was embattled Israel and a second the hostility of its Arab neighbours, a third was the plight of the huge number of Arab refugees. The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab population, who either were driven out by Zionist military forces before May 15, 1948, or by the Israeli army after that date or fled for fear of violence by these forces. Many wealthy merchants and leading urban notables from Jaffa, Tel Aviv, Haifa, and Jerusalem fled to Lebanon, Egypt, and Jordan, while the middle class tended to move to all-Arab towns such as Nāblus and Nazareth. The majority of fellahin ended up in refugee camps. More than 400 Arab villages disappeared, and Arab life in the coastal cities (especially Jaffa and Haifa) virtually disintegrated.
...}
Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict | Britannica
Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict: If one chief theme in the post-1948 pattern was embattled Israel and a second the hostility of its Arab neighbors, a third was the plight of the huge number of Arab refugees. The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab...
Leadership changes fast when invaded by a hostile country like the Zionists.
Especially in the 1920s.
What was stolen was land, so currency has nothing at all to do with it.
How can you steal land from a country that has no leaders and no currency?
Now, tell me more about those 100 US planes you smoked up.......
That is stupid.
Land is owned by individual property owners, not countries.
And Zionists murdered natives in order to steal their homes.
Almost no one in Israel has ever paid for their homes because they were almost all stolen from the natives.
That is trillions that need to get paid back.
Land is owned by individual property owners, not countries.
Yeah, but talking about the Ottoman owners is so boring.
Almost no one in Israel has ever paid for their homes because they were almost all stolen from the natives.
6 million Jews got their homes from a couple hundred thousand Palestinians? Sounds crowded.
Wrong.
The Ottoman invaders were rulers, not owners of individual plots of land.
The Palestinians had ownership of all the plots of land, including all of Israel.
There is hardly a parcel in Israel that is not actually legally owned by Arabs.
The exception would be the Old Jewish Quarter of the West Bank, where some native Jews lived.
And no, over a million Arabs were illegally displaced by Zionists.
(PDF) Consequences of the Ottoman Land Law: Agrarian and Privatization Processes in Palestine, 1858–1918
PDF | The Land Law and other processes in nineteenth century Palestine brought about the beginning of land survey and land settlement , land... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate
The Palestinians had ownership of all the plots of land, including all of Israel.
LOL!
And no, over a million Arabs were illegally displaced by Zionists
I saw your silliness the first time.
So over 6 million Jews now live in those houses. SOUNDS CROWDED moron
Wrong again, so consistently ignorant.
The Palestinians were almost completely rural farmers, and the Zionist had no history of farming, and lived in urban dwellings on the stolen land.
Yes.
The day the Jews invaded, who was the palestinian leader?
There were over half a dozen so called "wars", but in reality they were almost all just Israel stealing more land.
The Jews kicked a lot of Arab ass.
The exception was the Yom Kippur war of 73, when Egypt won back the Sinai.
Damn, that's some strong fucking weed you're smoking.
View attachment 500205
Sinai Peninsula | Definition, Map, History, & Facts | Britannica
Sinai Peninsula, triangular peninsula linking Africa with Asia and occupying an area of 23,500 square miles (61,000 square km). Usually regarded as being geographically part of Asia, the Sinai Peninsula is the northeastern extremity of Egypt and adjoins Israel and the Gaza Strip on the east.
