The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Toddsterpatriot]

Israel stole Jerusalem and the West Bank from Palestine,

Palestine? Sweet!!!

Who were the elected leaders of this "Palestine" you speak of?
What was their currency? Who was in charge of their central bank?
What were the interest rates on their debt the day before their land was stolen?

You have any links to back you up?
Besides that cloud of bong smoke you keep pulling your info from?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The creation of Poland was the recognition of the right of indigenous, and was not taken by any of the participants in WWII.

But some of the land previously belonged to Germany, right?
Poland was invaded in WWII, right? That means they participated, right?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

What did they win and who did they win it from?

Already told you.

More territory. From Mandate land held by no other nation.

And they kicked a bunch of Arab ass.

The British Mandate for Palestine was not land owned by the British, but land owned by Palestine.
The British were just under mandate to help protect and administer for the Palestinian Arabs.

The British Mandate for Palestine was not land owned by the British

I never said it was owned by the British. Did you?

but land owned by Palestine.

No such country.

The British were just under mandate to help protect and administer for the Palestinian Arabs.

And the Palestinian Jews.

 

[Rigby5]

How is that relevant?
Clearly Israel had the latest US weapons

In 1948? Are you drunk again?

YES in 1948.
The US sent about 20 B-17 bombers, which were only a few years old, flown from Florida to Palestine.
About 50 p-51 Mustangs, about the best fighter in the world at the time, were sent in crates.
And after being re-gunned in Czechoslovakia, the M-4 Sherman tanks were also about the best in the world.
All the latest WWII weapons just recently use by the US armed forces.
Also artillery, machineguns, rifles, pistols, etc.
In comparison, the Arabs had more like WWI relics because the British and French had blocked them from getting weapons.

The US sent about 20 B-17 bombers,

The US government? I don't believe you.

About 50 p-51 Mustangs, about the best fighter in the world at the time, were sent in crates.

50? Sent by the US government? I don't believe you.

In comparison, the Arabs had more like WWI relics

Plus, you said they only sent a couple of dozen troops.

Just like the heavy water the US government sent to Israel to make nuclear weapons, of course middle men were used to hide direct involvement by the US government.
But clearly none of these illegal weapons would have reached Israel unless the US government was responsible.
All arms to everyone else was blocked.
Only the Zionists arms got through.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War

Where does it say that Israel won that war?

In the beginning where it says Result: Israeli victory. It also says Palestinian Arab defeat..

let me guess, you’re going to twist the word ‘victory’ and claim it doesn’t mean ‘to win’... right Tinmore ?

This article needs additional citations for verification.

Wow, that was an act of desperation Tinmore. Really??

How about this:

“Another factor that contributed to the 1948 defeat”

Why the Arabs were defeated

Historians argue the reasons behind Arab losses against Israel in 1948.

www.aljazeera.com

This article comes from your favourite source, Al Jazeera. The entire article is based on why the Arabs lost and Israel won.

From the same article :


The forces of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Transjordan suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of the Israeli military......

The forces of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Transjordan suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of the Israeli military......

What did Egypt lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Lebanon lose?
What did Transjordan/Iraq lose?

They did not meet their goals . You don’t have to lose territory to lose a war .
You lost the argument Tinmore, again.
Nice duck BTW

Turn it around. What did Israel win and from whom?

They survived and held most of their territory against 5 Arab Armies.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War

Where does it say that Israel won that war?

In the beginning where it says Result: Israeli victory. It also says Palestinian Arab defeat..

let me guess, you’re going to twist the word ‘victory’ and claim it doesn’t mean ‘to win’... right Tinmore ?

This article needs additional citations for verification.

Wow, that was an act of desperation Tinmore. Really??

How about this:

“Another factor that contributed to the 1948 defeat”

Why the Arabs were defeated

Historians argue the reasons behind Arab losses against Israel in 1948.

www.aljazeera.com

This article comes from your favourite source, Al Jazeera. The entire article is based on why the Arabs lost and Israel won.

From the same article :


The forces of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Transjordan suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of the Israeli military......

The forces of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Transjordan suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of the Israeli military......

What did Egypt lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Lebanon lose?
What did Transjordan/Iraq lose?

They did not meet their goals . You don’t have to lose territory to lose a war .
You lost the argument Tinmore, again.
Nice duck BTW

Turn it around. What did Israel win and from whom?

They met their goals, which was to repel the Arab armies . Simple as that.

That wasn't the question.

You keep posting under the false premise that Israel had to physically win something in order to win the war . Wars are won or lost based on goals that are met or not. I provided several links already to back up my statement that Israel win the 1948 war, you have provided Nothing but ducks and dancing !

Holy obfuscation, Batman.

Yet another duck by Tinmore. What’s the record for ducks by one poster in one thread? It must be Tinmore.
Whenever he loses an argument, he tries to retreat by accusing the other poster is ducking .
I’m still waiting for just one link to contradict what I posted Tinmore . Just one..

No, you just are trying to move away from my questions.

I have answered everything you have asked me and provided several links. You have provided NOTHING . Just ducking and dancing. Now you are accusing me of exactly what you are doing , trying to retreat when you know you lost ..

What did Egypt lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Lebanon lose?
What did Transjordan/Iraq lose?

Their goal was to eliminate the Jews and conquer the lands they failed both objectives.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Just like the heavy water the US government sent to Israel to make nuclear weapons, of course middle men were used to hide direct involvement by the US government.

Oh. Middle men. So you don't have any actual proof.

All arms to everyone else was blocked.

So the Arabs were even dumber than I first thought.
They sent a few dozen soldiers with crappy old weapons.
What a bunch of morons.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But clearly none of these illegal weapons would have reached Israel unless the US government was responsible.

Illegal?

 

[Rigby5]

The creation of Poland was the recognition of the right of indigenous, and was not taken by any of the participants in WWII.

But some of the land previously belonged to Germany, right?
Poland was invaded in WWII, right? That means they participated, right?

No, Poland essentially did not participate in WWII.
The partition between German and Russia of what used to be Poland, actually happened before WWII.
And Poland most definitely did not invade, and then later try to annex the land they had captured.
That is what is illegal.
Borders can change after wars, but only due to the rights of the indigenous natives, not a gain by conquest.
The 1967 invasion of the West Bank by Israel is totally and completely illegal and can then never be recognized by anyone.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War

Where does it say that Israel won that war?

In the beginning where it says Result: Israeli victory. It also says Palestinian Arab defeat..

let me guess, you’re going to twist the word ‘victory’ and claim it doesn’t mean ‘to win’... right Tinmore ?

This article needs additional citations for verification.

Wow, that was an act of desperation Tinmore. Really??

How about this:

“Another factor that contributed to the 1948 defeat”

Why the Arabs were defeated

Historians argue the reasons behind Arab losses against Israel in 1948.

www.aljazeera.com

This article comes from your favourite source, Al Jazeera. The entire article is based on why the Arabs lost and Israel won.

From the same article :


The forces of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Transjordan suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of the Israeli military......

The forces of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Transjordan suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of the Israeli military......

What did Egypt lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Lebanon lose?
What did Transjordan/Iraq lose?

They did not meet their goals . You don’t have to lose territory to lose a war .
You lost the argument Tinmore, again.
Nice duck BTW

Turn it around. What did Israel win and from whom?

They met their goals, which was to repel the Arab armies . Simple as that.

That wasn't the question.

You keep posting under the false premise that Israel had to physically win something in order to win the war . Wars are won or lost based on goals that are met or not. I provided several links already to back up my statement that Israel win the 1948 war, you have provided Nothing but ducks and dancing !

Holy obfuscation, Batman.

Yet another duck by Tinmore. What’s the record for ducks by one poster in one thread? It must be Tinmore.
Whenever he loses an argument, he tries to retreat by accusing the other poster is ducking .
I’m still waiting for just one link to contradict what I posted Tinmore . Just one..

No, you just are trying to move away from my questions.

I have answered everything you have asked me and provided several links. You have provided NOTHING . Just ducking and dancing. Now you are accusing me of exactly what you are doing , trying to retreat when you know you lost ..

What did Egypt lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Lebanon lose?
What did Transjordan/Iraq lose?

What did Egypt lose?

They got their ass kicked.

What did Syria lose?

They got their ass kicked.

What did Lebanon lose?

They got their ass kicked.

What did Transjordan/Iraq lose?

They got their ass kicked.

How is that relevant?
Clearly Israel had the latest US weapons, while the Arab states had old surplus that was decades obsolete.

Not in 1948 dumb ass.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The creation of Poland was the recognition of the right of indigenous, and was not taken by any of the participants in WWII.

But some of the land previously belonged to Germany, right?
Poland was invaded in WWII, right? That means they participated, right?

No, Poland essentially did not participate in WWII.
The partition between German and Russia of what used to be Poland, actually happened before WWII.
And Poland most definitely did not invade, and then later try to annex the land they had captured.
That is what is illegal.
Borders can change after wars, but only due to the rights of the indigenous natives, not a gain by conquest.
The 1967 invasion of the West Bank by Israel is totally and completely illegal and can then never be recognized by anyone.

No, Poland essentially did not participate in WWII.

Getting invaded doesn't count? Why not?

The partition between German and Russia of what used to be Poland, actually happened before WWII.

But that's illegal!!

And Poland most definitely did not invade

They did not invade. But they sure got some formerly German land. Right?

Borders can change after wars,

German didn't freely give up the Polish land they took.
Armed conflict was needed to get the Germans to leave. The same conflict that gave Poland
some land that WAS Germany. Does Poland know that land was illegally stolen? LOL!

but only due to the rights of the indigenous natives, not a gain by conquest.

The indigenous Germans in much of Eastern Europe were deported after WWII.

The 1967 invasion of the West Bank by Israel is totally and completely illegal and can then never be recognized by anyone.

Why?

 

[Rigby5]

Just like the heavy water the US government sent to Israel to make nuclear weapons, of course middle men were used to hide direct involvement by the US government.

Oh. Middle men. So you don't have any actual proof.

All arms to everyone else was blocked.

So the Arabs were even dumber than I first thought.
They sent a few dozen soldiers with crappy old weapons.
What a bunch of morons.

No, it is called being bribed by the US.
The Arab nations were not really allowed to have significant arms because the French and British had been invading them for so long, they did not want them to have any significant arms.

{...

War History Online proudly presents this Guest Piece from Christopher Stuttard​

Prior to and during 1947, the Jewish paramilitary group, the Haganah (precursor to the Israeli Defense Forces), had been procuring weapons in the build-up to the “Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel,” otherwise known as Israeli independence from Britain and Palestine.


Under the leadership of Israel’s founding father, David Ben-Gurion, the underground operatives of the Haganah had been manufacturing and stockpiling small arms in what Benny Morris dubbed: “a massive, covert arms acquisition campaign in the West.”

By late September 1947, they had an arsenal of rifles, sub-machine guns, mortars, and light machine guns. These weapons numbered in the thousands. However, the problem the fledgling force faced was a distinct lack of heavy weaponry, aircraft, and armored units.

Solution​

Enter the curious case of Charles “Charlie” Thompson Winters. Born February 10, 1913, in Brookline, Massachusetts, Charlie Winters procured four B-17 Flying Fortresses with the bold plan of retrofitting them and delivering them to the newly created Israeli AirForce.

Along with Al Schwimmer and Herman “Hank” Greenspun, Winters was essential in the creation of the Israeli Air Force and a major contributor to the course of the first Arab-Israeli war in 1948.

In 1948, Winters was running a freight service between Miami, Florida and the Caribbean, mainly transporting fruit and vegetables. He used his piloting skills and export license to deliver three B-17 bombers to Israel.

Taking off from Miami, the B-17s refueled in Puerto Rico as they would do in a normal produce delivery.

Then, instead of heading to the Caribbean with their usual cargo, the heavy bombers were piloted to the Azores and then to Žatec in former Czechoslovakia. Winters flew one of the aircraft himself.
...}

The CIA smuggled many more with similar methodology.
None could have happened without the knowledge and assistance of the US government.

 

[Rigby5]

What did they win and who did they win it from?

Already told you.

More territory. From Mandate land held by no other nation.

And they kicked a bunch of Arab ass.

The British Mandate for Palestine was not land owned by the British, but land owned by Palestine.
The British were just under mandate to help protect and administer for the Palestinian Arabs.

The British Mandate for Palestine was not land owned by the British

I never said it was owned by the British. Did you?

but land owned by Palestine.

No such country.

The British were just under mandate to help protect and administer for the Palestinian Arabs.

And the Palestinian Jews.

Wrong.
Palestine legally existed in 1920 by the Allies and Axis powers signing the Treaty of San Remo and Treaty of Sevres.

There were not to be any Jewish involvement in the government of Palestine.
The Jews agreed to that in 1920, in exchange for facilitated immigration.
There also were only about 70k Jews and 70k Christians in Palestine in 1920.
Over 90% of the population was Moslem Arabs.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Just like the heavy water the US government sent to Israel to make nuclear weapons, of course middle men were used to hide direct involvement by the US government.

Oh. Middle men. So you don't have any actual proof.

All arms to everyone else was blocked.

So the Arabs were even dumber than I first thought.
They sent a few dozen soldiers with crappy old weapons.
What a bunch of morons.

No, it is called being bribed by the US.
The Arab nations were not really allowed to have significant arms because the French and British had been invading them for so long, they did not want them to have any significant arms.

{...

War History Online proudly presents this Guest Piece from Christopher Stuttard​

Prior to and during 1947, the Jewish paramilitary group, the Haganah (precursor to the Israeli Defense Forces), had been procuring weapons in the build-up to the “Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel,” otherwise known as Israeli independence from Britain and Palestine.


Under the leadership of Israel’s founding father, David Ben-Gurion, the underground operatives of the Haganah had been manufacturing and stockpiling small arms in what Benny Morris dubbed: “a massive, covert arms acquisition campaign in the West.”

By late September 1947, they had an arsenal of rifles, sub-machine guns, mortars, and light machine guns. These weapons numbered in the thousands. However, the problem the fledgling force faced was a distinct lack of heavy weaponry, aircraft, and armored units.

Solution​

Enter the curious case of Charles “Charlie” Thompson Winters. Born February 10, 1913, in Brookline, Massachusetts, Charlie Winters procured four B-17 Flying Fortresses with the bold plan of retrofitting them and delivering them to the newly created Israeli AirForce.

Along with Al Schwimmer and Herman “Hank” Greenspun, Winters was essential in the creation of the Israeli Air Force and a major contributor to the course of the first Arab-Israeli war in 1948.

In 1948, Winters was running a freight service between Miami, Florida and the Caribbean, mainly transporting fruit and vegetables. He used his piloting skills and export license to deliver three B-17 bombers to Israel.

Taking off from Miami, the B-17s refueled in Puerto Rico as they would do in a normal produce delivery.

Then, instead of heading to the Caribbean with their usual cargo, the heavy bombers were piloted to the Azores and then to Žatec in former Czechoslovakia. Winters flew one of the aircraft himself.
...}

The CIA smuggled many more with similar methodology.
None could have happened without the knowledge and assistance of the US government.

The Arab nations were not really allowed to have significant arms because the French and British had been invading them for so long, they did not want them to have any significant arms.

You convinced me. The Arabs were morons.

Enter the curious case of Charles “Charlie” Thompson Winters. Born February 10, 1913, in Brookline, Massachusetts, Charlie Winters procured four B-17 Flying Fortresses with the bold plan of retrofitting them and delivering them to the newly created Israeli AirForce.

That was awesome!!!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Palestine legally existed in 1920 by the Allies and Axis powers signing the Treaty of San Remo and Treaty of Sevres.

You're lying.

There were not to be any Jewish involvement in the government of Palestine.

What government of Palestine?

 

[Rigby5]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War

Where does it say that Israel won that war?

In the beginning where it says Result: Israeli victory. It also says Palestinian Arab defeat..

let me guess, you’re going to twist the word ‘victory’ and claim it doesn’t mean ‘to win’... right Tinmore ?

This article needs additional citations for verification.

Wow, that was an act of desperation Tinmore. Really??

How about this:

“Another factor that contributed to the 1948 defeat”

Why the Arabs were defeated

Historians argue the reasons behind Arab losses against Israel in 1948.

www.aljazeera.com

This article comes from your favourite source, Al Jazeera. The entire article is based on why the Arabs lost and Israel won.

From the same article :


The forces of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Transjordan suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of the Israeli military......

The forces of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Transjordan suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of the Israeli military......

What did Egypt lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Lebanon lose?
What did Transjordan/Iraq lose?

They did not meet their goals . You don’t have to lose territory to lose a war .
You lost the argument Tinmore, again.
Nice duck BTW

Turn it around. What did Israel win and from whom?

They met their goals, which was to repel the Arab armies . Simple as that.

That wasn't the question.

You keep posting under the false premise that Israel had to physically win something in order to win the war . Wars are won or lost based on goals that are met or not. I provided several links already to back up my statement that Israel win the 1948 war, you have provided Nothing but ducks and dancing !

Holy obfuscation, Batman.

Yet another duck by Tinmore. What’s the record for ducks by one poster in one thread? It must be Tinmore.
Whenever he loses an argument, he tries to retreat by accusing the other poster is ducking .
I’m still waiting for just one link to contradict what I posted Tinmore . Just one..

No, you just are trying to move away from my questions.

I have answered everything you have asked me and provided several links. You have provided NOTHING . Just ducking and dancing. Now you are accusing me of exactly what you are doing , trying to retreat when you know you lost ..

What did Egypt lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Lebanon lose?
What did Transjordan/Iraq lose?

What did Egypt lose?

They got their ass kicked.

What did Syria lose?

They got their ass kicked.

What did Lebanon lose?

They got their ass kicked.

What did Transjordan/Iraq lose?

They got their ass kicked.

How is that relevant?
Clearly Israel had the latest US weapons, while the Arab states had old surplus that was decades obsolete.

Not in 1948 dumb ass.

Yes in 1948.
The US ensured that the Zionists got the latest US weapons that the US military had used only a few years before that.

 

[Rigby5]

Just like the heavy water the US government sent to Israel to make nuclear weapons, of course middle men were used to hide direct involvement by the US government.

Oh. Middle men. So you don't have any actual proof.

All arms to everyone else was blocked.

So the Arabs were even dumber than I first thought.
They sent a few dozen soldiers with crappy old weapons.
What a bunch of morons.

No, it is called being bribed by the US.
The Arab nations were not really allowed to have significant arms because the French and British had been invading them for so long, they did not want them to have any significant arms.

{...

War History Online proudly presents this Guest Piece from Christopher Stuttard​

Prior to and during 1947, the Jewish paramilitary group, the Haganah (precursor to the Israeli Defense Forces), had been procuring weapons in the build-up to the “Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel,” otherwise known as Israeli independence from Britain and Palestine.


Under the leadership of Israel’s founding father, David Ben-Gurion, the underground operatives of the Haganah had been manufacturing and stockpiling small arms in what Benny Morris dubbed: “a massive, covert arms acquisition campaign in the West.”

By late September 1947, they had an arsenal of rifles, sub-machine guns, mortars, and light machine guns. These weapons numbered in the thousands. However, the problem the fledgling force faced was a distinct lack of heavy weaponry, aircraft, and armored units.

Solution​

Enter the curious case of Charles “Charlie” Thompson Winters. Born February 10, 1913, in Brookline, Massachusetts, Charlie Winters procured four B-17 Flying Fortresses with the bold plan of retrofitting them and delivering them to the newly created Israeli AirForce.

Along with Al Schwimmer and Herman “Hank” Greenspun, Winters was essential in the creation of the Israeli Air Force and a major contributor to the course of the first Arab-Israeli war in 1948.

In 1948, Winters was running a freight service between Miami, Florida and the Caribbean, mainly transporting fruit and vegetables. He used his piloting skills and export license to deliver three B-17 bombers to Israel.

Taking off from Miami, the B-17s refueled in Puerto Rico as they would do in a normal produce delivery.

Then, instead of heading to the Caribbean with their usual cargo, the heavy bombers were piloted to the Azores and then to Žatec in former Czechoslovakia. Winters flew one of the aircraft himself.
...}

The CIA smuggled many more with similar methodology.
None could have happened without the knowledge and assistance of the US government.

The Arab nations were not really allowed to have significant arms because the French and British had been invading them for so long, they did not want them to have any significant arms.

You convinced me. The Arabs were morons.

Enter the curious case of Charles “Charlie” Thompson Winters. Born February 10, 1913, in Brookline, Massachusetts, Charlie Winters procured four B-17 Flying Fortresses with the bold plan of retrofitting them and delivering them to the newly created Israeli AirForce.

That was awesome!!!

The Arabs were not morons, but simply had no interest in war, with anyone, much less bucking what the US wanted.

And the fact Charles Winters was not prosecuted for his obvious violations of law and treaty, proves the US government was involved secretly.

 

[Rigby5]

Palestine legally existed in 1920 by the Allies and Axis powers signing the Treaty of San Remo and Treaty of Sevres.

You're lying.

There were not to be any Jewish involvement in the government of Palestine.

What government of Palestine?

What do you think the British Mandate for Palestine was, if not to help the Palestinians for a government?

There certainly was no possible legitimacy for a Zionist government since the Zionists were all illegal immigrants without any historic ties to the Mideast at all.
Ashkenazi come from Poland and Russia, not the Mideast.
They have no more Mideast DNA than Hitler did.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Arabs were not morons, but simply had no interest in war, with anyone, much less bucking what the US wanted.

And they still invaded.

That's like Rigby level stupid.

You never answered by questions about the Palestinian government/central bank etc.

Still looking for the answers? Avoiding the questions? What?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Palestine legally existed in 1920 by the Allies and Axis powers signing the Treaty of San Remo and Treaty of Sevres.

You're lying.

There were not to be any Jewish involvement in the government of Palestine.

What government of Palestine?

What do you think the British Mandate for Palestine was, if not to help the Palestinians for a government?

There certainly was no possible legitimacy for a Zionist government since the Zionists were all illegal immigrants without any historic ties to the Mideast at all.
Ashkenazi come from Poland and Russia, not the Mideast.
They have no more Mideast DNA than Hitler did.

What do you think the British Mandate for Palestine was, if not to help the Palestinians for a government?

Homeland for the Jews. It was in all the papers.

There certainly was no possible legitimacy for a Zionist government since the Zionists were all illegal immigrants

You ran away before without showing any were illegal immigrants. Why?