The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:

(Ω) Human Rights belong to everyone equally. (Pertaining to people.)​

(Ω) All peoples have the right of self-determination. (Pertaining to people.)​

(Ω) All "States" are equal under the law. (Pertaining to Territory.)​

I brushed over many points of importance in that Posting (supra); but, I don't think I mentioned or challenged the Idea of a Palestinian State.

For starters, a "state" is not relevant.
Then what is your reason for denying Palestinian rights?

(COMMENT)

Well, that is not entirely true. For instance, States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. This does not apply to Non-Self-Governing Territories (as an example). Being a "state" does matter. It depends on what is being claimed and by whom.

​

​

There you go again with Israel's "there never was a Palestine" shtick.​

​

​

​

I did not raise the issue of "statehood." But since you mention it, the following questions arise:

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the permanent population?​

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the defined territory for which they claim sovereignty? (Just so there is no misunderstanding, can you supply a Map of the State?)​

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the government of their "state?" ​

​

◈ What Arab Palestinian government has the capacity in drawing up and adopting the text of a negotiated treaty?​

​

​

Most Respectfully,​

R​

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:

(Ω) Human Rights belong to everyone equally. (Pertaining to people.)​

(Ω) All peoples have the right of self-determination. (Pertaining to people.)​

(Ω) All "States" are equal under the law. (Pertaining to Territory.)​

I brushed over many points of importance in that Posting (supra); but, I don't think I mentioned or challenged the Idea of a Palestinian State.

For starters, a "state" is not relevant.
Then what is your reason for denying Palestinian rights?

(COMMENT)

Well, that is not entirely true. For instance, States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. This does not apply to Non-Self-Governing Territories (as an example). Being a "state" does matter. It depends on what is being claimed and by whom.

​

​

There you go again with Israel's "there never was a Palestine" shtick.​

​

​

​

I did not raise the issue of "statehood." But since you mention it, the following questions arise:

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the permanent population?​

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the defined territory for which they claim sovereignty? (Just so there is no misunderstanding, can you supply a Map of the State?)​

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the government of their "state?" ​

​

◈ What Arab Palestinian government has the capacity in drawing up and adopting the text of a negotiated treaty?​

​

​

Most Respectfully,​

R​

I have already posted all of that stuff. You are just trying to obfuscate.

Palestine was created as a state by post war treaties in 1924. Nobody has the authority to change that.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Palestine was created as a state by post war treaties in 1924.

That is awesome!! Who was in the government of that state?
What currency did they use? What did their flag look like?

 

[MartyNYC]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:

(Ω) Human Rights belong to everyone equally. (Pertaining to people.)​

(Ω) All peoples have the right of self-determination. (Pertaining to people.)​

(Ω) All "States" are equal under the law. (Pertaining to Territory.)​

I brushed over many points of importance in that Posting (supra); but, I don't think I mentioned or challenged the Idea of a Palestinian State.

For starters, a "state" is not relevant.
Then what is your reason for denying Palestinian rights?

(COMMENT)

Well, that is not entirely true. For instance, States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. This does not apply to Non-Self-Governing Territories (as an example). Being a "state" does matter. It depends on what is being claimed and by whom.

​

​

There you go again with Israel's "there never was a Palestine" shtick.​

​

​

​

I did not raise the issue of "statehood." But since you mention it, the following questions arise:

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the permanent population?​

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the defined territory for which they claim sovereignty? (Just so there is no misunderstanding, can you supply a Map of the State?)​

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the government of their "state?" ​

​

◈ What Arab Palestinian government has the capacity in drawing up and adopting the text of a negotiated treaty?​

​

​

Most Respectfully,​

R​

I have already posted all of that stuff. You are just trying to obfuscate.

Palestine was created as a state by post war treaties in 1924. Nobody has the authority to change that.

Palestine was Britain’s fictional nickname for the British Mandate, created specifically to establish a Jewish National Home called for in the Balfour Declaration. British Mandatory Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.

 

[MartyNYC]

Palestine was created as a state by post war treaties in 1924.

That is awesome!! Who was in the government of that state?
What currency did they use? What did their flag look like?

There never was a state of palestine. Palestine was a European Christian name for centuries which Britain called the British Mandate, British Mandatory Palestine. British Mandate was created specifically for a Jewish National Home, which became Israel.

 

[Shusha]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:

(Ω) Human Rights belong to everyone equally. (Pertaining to people.)​

(Ω) All peoples have the right of self-determination. (Pertaining to people.)​

(Ω) All "States" are equal under the law. (Pertaining to Territory.)​

I brushed over many points of importance in that Posting (supra); but, I don't think I mentioned or challenged the Idea of a Palestinian State.

For starters, a "state" is not relevant.
Then what is your reason for denying Palestinian rights?

(COMMENT)

Well, that is not entirely true. For instance, States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. This does not apply to Non-Self-Governing Territories (as an example). Being a "state" does matter. It depends on what is being claimed and by whom.

​

​

There you go again with Israel's "there never was a Palestine" shtick.​

​

​

​

I did not raise the issue of "statehood." But since you mention it, the following questions arise:

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the permanent population?​

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the defined territory for which they claim sovereignty? (Just so there is no misunderstanding, can you supply a Map of the State?)​

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the government of their "state?" ​

​

◈ What Arab Palestinian government has the capacity in drawing up and adopting the text of a negotiated treaty?​

​

​

Most Respectfully,​

R​

I have already posted all of that stuff. You are just trying to obfuscate.

Palestine was created as a state by post war treaties in 1924. Nobody has the authority to change that.

Not true. States are changed all the time. Old ones are dissolved, new ones are formed. Its ridiculously common. All it takes is a defined people, who form a government, exert effective control over a territory, and draw up and sign treaties with their neighbors. Fun fact: Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon and Israel were all new States created by the partitioning of an existing State.

 

[MartyNYC]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:

(Ω) Human Rights belong to everyone equally. (Pertaining to people.)​

(Ω) All peoples have the right of self-determination. (Pertaining to people.)​

(Ω) All "States" are equal under the law. (Pertaining to Territory.)​

I brushed over many points of importance in that Posting (supra); but, I don't think I mentioned or challenged the Idea of a Palestinian State.

For starters, a "state" is not relevant.
Then what is your reason for denying Palestinian rights?

(COMMENT)

Well, that is not entirely true. For instance, States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. This does not apply to Non-Self-Governing Territories (as an example). Being a "state" does matter. It depends on what is being claimed and by whom.

​

​

There you go again with Israel's "there never was a Palestine" shtick.​

​

​

​

I did not raise the issue of "statehood." But since you mention it, the following questions arise:

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the permanent population?​

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the defined territory for which they claim sovereignty? (Just so there is no misunderstanding, can you supply a Map of the State?)​

​

◈ What do the Arab Palestinians consider the government of their "state?" ​

​

◈ What Arab Palestinian government has the capacity in drawing up and adopting the text of a negotiated treaty?​

​

​

Most Respectfully,​

R​

I have already posted all of that stuff. You are just trying to obfuscate.

Palestine was created as a state by post war treaties in 1924. Nobody has the authority to change that.

Um, palestine became the name of the British Mandate, by authority of the League of Nations at the San Remo Conference in 1920. Mandates were not states.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: There was no creation of a post-war State called Palestine in the territory under the Mandate in 1924.

​

I have already posted all of that stuff. You are just trying to obfuscate.
Palestine was created as a state by post war treaties in 1924. Nobody has the authority to change that.

(COMMENT)

Wow: If anyone is trying to render an obscure, unclear, or unintelligible answer, it is certainly NOT me.

The Treaty of Lausanne (1924)(with the Turkish Republic) was a renegotiated Treaty of Sevres (1920) (with the Ottoman Empire)...

"The Palestine Order in Council (1920) set the limits over the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied, thereinafter - described as Palestine. The treaty of Lausanne recognized that the Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title to the territory and provided support (Article 30 dealt with the Nationality issues of subjects habitually resident in the territory) for the Palestine Citizenship Order.

In a 1925 Judgement by the Permanent Court of International Justice (PICJ) equated the Government of Palestine as an institution of the British Government as the Mandate Authority. As such, there not being a State of Palestine, the British Government (acting as the Government of Palestine) was responsible for the debt incurred when the territory was under the Ottoman Empire.

There was NO obligation established with the subjects habitually resident in the territory. The subjects habitually resident in the territory were NOT a party which took part in the drawing up or adopting the treaty; nor, were they a party considered to be bound by the treaty.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

In a 1925 Judgement by the Permanent Court of International Justice (PICJ) equated the Government of Palestine as an institution of the British Government as the Mandate Authority. As such, there not being a State of Palestine, the British Government (acting as the Government of Palestine) was responsible for the debt incurred when the territory was under the Ottoman Empire.

The Mandate was a temporarily assigned administration of Palestine. It did not acquire sovereignty or territory. It had a goal and end time stated in Article 22 of the LoN Covenant. The Palestinians were citizens of Palestine not Britain.

Britain, holding the Mandate for Palestine, was responsible for Palestine's foreign affairs.

 

[MartyNYC]

In a 1925 Judgement by the Permanent Court of International Justice (PICJ) equated the Government of Palestine as an institution of the British Government as the Mandate Authority. As such, there not being a State of Palestine, the British Government (acting as the Government of Palestine) was responsible for the debt incurred when the territory was under the Ottoman Empire.

The Mandate was a temporarily assigned administration of Palestine. It did not acquire sovereignty or territory. It had a goal and end time stated in Article 22 of the LoN Covenant. The Palestinians were citizens of Palestine not Britain.

Britain, holding the Mandate for Palestine, was responsible for Palestine's foreign affairs.

Um, no. There was no entity palestine prior to Britain calling the British Mandate palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

In a 1925 Judgement by the Permanent Court of International Justice (PICJ) equated the Government of Palestine as an institution of the British Government as the Mandate Authority. As such, there not being a State of Palestine, the British Government (acting as the Government of Palestine) was responsible for the debt incurred when the territory was under the Ottoman Empire.

The Mandate was a temporarily assigned administration of Palestine. It did not acquire sovereignty or territory. It had a goal and end time stated in Article 22 of the LoN Covenant. The Palestinians were citizens of Palestine not Britain.

Britain, holding the Mandate for Palestine, was responsible for Palestine's foreign affairs.

Um, no. There was no entity palestine prior to Britain calling the British Mandate palestine.

No what?

 

[MartyNYC]

In a 1925 Judgement by the Permanent Court of International Justice (PICJ) equated the Government of Palestine as an institution of the British Government as the Mandate Authority. As such, there not being a State of Palestine, the British Government (acting as the Government of Palestine) was responsible for the debt incurred when the territory was under the Ottoman Empire.

The Mandate was a temporarily assigned administration of Palestine. It did not acquire sovereignty or territory. It had a goal and end time stated in Article 22 of the LoN Covenant. The Palestinians were citizens of Palestine not Britain.

Britain, holding the Mandate for Palestine, was responsible for Palestine's foreign affairs.

Um, no. There was no entity palestine prior to Britain calling the British Mandate palestine.

No what?

There was no palestine for 400 years of the Ottoman Empire preceding WW1. After the fall of the Ottoman Empire, Britain named the British Mandate “palestine,” an old European Christian name. Purpose of the British Mandate was implementation of the Balfour Declaration for reestablishment of the “Jewish National Home” highlighted in the preamble of the Mandate.

 

[MartyNYC]

In a 1925 Judgement by the Permanent Court of International Justice (PICJ) equated the Government of Palestine as an institution of the British Government as the Mandate Authority. As such, there not being a State of Palestine, the British Government (acting as the Government of Palestine) was responsible for the debt incurred when the territory was under the Ottoman Empire.

The Mandate was a temporarily assigned administration of Palestine. It did not acquire sovereignty or territory. It had a goal and end time stated in Article 22 of the LoN Covenant. The Palestinians were citizens of Palestine not Britain.

Britain, holding the Mandate for Palestine, was responsible for Palestine's foreign affairs.

Pay attention: There was no political entity named palestine prior to Britain naming the British Mandate by that name. Palestine had been a European Christian term. The only purpose of the British Mandate was creation of a Jewish National Home as specified in its preamble.

Jews were called palestinians in the British Mandate. Arabs rejected those names as Western inventions...

 

[P F Tinmore]

Pay attention: There was no political entity named palestine prior to Britain naming the British Mandate by that name.

Britain called it Palestine because that is what it was.



A place does not disappear just because it is under foreign rule. India was still India when it was ruled by the British. Tibet is still Tibet. Cashmere is still Cashmere. Palestine is still Palestine.

 

[MartyNYC]

Pay attention: There was no political entity named palestine prior to Britain naming the British Mandate by that name.

Britain called it Palestine because that is what it was.



A place does not disappear just because it is under foreign rule. India was still India when it was ruled by the British. Tibet is still Tibet. Cashmere is still Cashmere. Palestine is still Palestine.

There was no palestine in the Ottoman Empire, just before the British Mandate

 

[MartyNYC]

Pay attention: There was no political entity named palestine prior to Britain naming the British Mandate by that name.

Britain called it Palestine because that is what it was.



A place does not disappear just because it is under foreign rule. India was still India when it was ruled by the British. Tibet is still Tibet. Cashmere is still Cashmere. Palestine is still Palestine.

Palestine was a European Christian name, not Middle Eastern. Britain called the British Mandate by the name palestine

 

[MartyNYC]

Pay attention: There was no political entity named palestine prior to Britain naming the British Mandate by that name.

Britain called it Palestine because that is what it was.



A place does not disappear just because it is under foreign rule. India was still India when it was ruled by the British. Tibet is still Tibet. Cashmere is still Cashmere. Palestine is still Palestine.

Maps are Western creations and palestine is a Western name. What do the ancient Middle Eastern texts say?

 

[MartyNYC]

Pay attention: There was no political entity named palestine prior to Britain naming the British Mandate by that name.

Britain called it Palestine because that is what it was.



A place does not disappear just because it is under foreign rule. India was still India when it was ruled by the British. Tibet is still Tibet. Cashmere is still Cashmere. Palestine is still Palestine.

Israel or Judea are the correct historical Middle Eastern names of the country. Not palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[MartyNYC]

Israel and Judea, not palestine. Palestine was a Roman name.