The New Communism: Healthcare

[Barb]

Such an old song, such a tired dance. It was BS then, its BS repackaged now:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0NWqvRidlk]YouTube - Ronald Reagan on Universal Healthcare[/ame]

 

[Barb]

Such an old song, such a tired dance. It was BS then, its BS repackaged now:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0NWqvRidlk]YouTube - Ronald Reagan on Universal Healthcare[/ame]

 

[editec]

PC asks:

What kind of thinking would encourage the demise of our senior citizens in order to save the state medical costs?

The same kind of thinking that refuses to insure pre-existing conditions to save the insurance companies medical costs, actually.

This rationing scare tactic isn't going to work because far too many Amnerican already know that their HC is rationed, already.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The reason is that most do not face serious health crisises.

Of course Canada faces a serious health crisis. You think costs are only going up in the US?

The reference was to the disease, cancer.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC asks:

What kind of thinking would encourage the demise of our senior citizens in order to save the state medical costs?

The same kind of thinking that refuses to insure pre-existing conditions to save the insurance companies medical costs, actually.

This rationing scare tactic isn't going to work because far too many Amnerican already know that their HC is rationed, already.

No where is the childlike view of the world of liberals more evident than this inane post.

Should life insurance companies offer life insurance to those on their deathbed?

Should auto insurance companies offer same to those calling from the site of the accident?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Such an old song, such a tired dance. It was BS then, its BS repackaged now:

YouTube - Ronald Reagan on Universal Healthcare

Let's check.

If an American and a Canadian both discovered that they had cancer, would the odds be better that the American would rush off to Canada, or that the Canadian would hurry to America.

So much for your argument.

 

[driveby]

PC asks:

What kind of thinking would encourage the demise of our senior citizens in order to save the state medical costs?

The same kind of thinking that refuses to insure pre-existing conditions to save the insurance companies medical costs, actually.

This rationing scare tactic isn't going to work because far too many Amnerican already know that their HC is rationed, already.

And you think the government will cover them ? .....

 

[Toro]

Such an old song, such a tired dance. It was BS then, its BS repackaged now:

YouTube - Ronald Reagan on Universal Healthcare

Let's check.

If an American and a Canadian both discovered that they had cancer, would the odds be better that the American would rush off to Canada, or that the Canadian would hurry to America.

So much for your argument.

That's a good question. About 0.8% of Canadians go across the US border for all medical treatments.

About 10-15 years ago, citizens of New York and Michigan near the border of Ontario were buying fraudulent Ontario Health cards for $3000 a pop so they could go across the border to receive treatment for expensive procedures and treatments they couldn't afford in the US or their insurance would not cover. The problem was becoming so rampant, the government of Ontario changed the health card to give it security features similar to drivers licenses.

Another question is how many Americans fly outside of the country for treatments which they cannot afford to pay in America?

 

[Agnapostate]

Some of us used to be under the mistaken impression that communism was a type of socialism (and thus necessitated the collective ownership of the means of production as a precondition) that involved distribution of assigned labor, goods, and services according to abilities and needs. Clearly, we were wrong.

 

[Barb]

Such an old song, such a tired dance. It was BS then, its BS repackaged now:

YouTube - Ronald Reagan on Universal Healthcare

Let's check.

If an American and a Canadian both discovered that they had cancer, would the odds be better that the American would rush off to Canada, or that the Canadian would hurry to America.

So much for your argument.

My mother tried that argument (not specific to cancer, why narrow it down to that?). Funny thing, later in the same conversation she admitted that she (like many Americans living on fixed incomes) buy their prescription drugs from Canada

 

[PoliticalChic]

Such an old song, such a tired dance. It was BS then, its BS repackaged now:

YouTube - Ronald Reagan on Universal Healthcare

Let's check.

If an American and a Canadian both discovered that they had cancer, would the odds be better that the American would rush off to Canada, or that the Canadian would hurry to America.

So much for your argument.

That's a good question. About 0.8% of Canadians go across the US border for all medical treatments.

About 10-15 years ago, citizens of New York and Michigan near the border of Ontario were buying fraudulent Ontario Health cards for $3000 a pop so they could go across the border to receive treatment for expensive procedures and treatments they couldn't afford in the US or their insurance would not cover. The problem was becoming so rampant, the government of Ontario changed the health card to give it security features similar to drivers licenses.

Another question is how many Americans fly outside of the country for treatments which they cannot afford to pay in America?

I have read extensively on the subject and have yet to find indicia of Americans going "...across the border to receive treatment for expensive procedures and treatments they couldn't afford in the US." I'd appreciate links.

The same for the 0.8% figure. Thank you.

I have seen this in a speech by John C. Goodman, Center for Policy Analysis: " Medical tourism: hospitals in India, Singapore and Thailand are competing worldwide for patients. They have lower costs, and high quality, with doctors board-certified in the United States, and publicize their error rates, mortality rates, infection rates, etc. "
Seems an excellent idea, as wealthy Arabs do so, as well as North Americans and Europeans. I actually tried to invest in Apollo Hospitals, India, based on my research, but found it only possible through pink sheets.

Not sure what your point is about this, unless you see this as a weakness of the US healthcare system.
I see it as an intelligent response by the healthcare consumer, and proof of my point re: behavior of liberty-exercising American.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Some of us used to be under the mistaken impression that communism was a type of socialism (and thus necessitated the collective ownership of the means of production as a precondition) that involved distribution of assigned labor, goods, and services according to abilities and needs. Clearly, we were wrong.

Playing dumb?

Communism in theory and Communism in practice.

 

[Political Junky]

Such an old song, such a tired dance. It was BS then, its BS repackaged now:

YouTube - Ronald Reagan on Universal Healthcare

Let's check.

If an American and a Canadian both discovered that they had cancer, would the odds be better that the American would rush off to Canada, or that the Canadian would hurry to America.

So much for your argument.

That's a good question. About 0.8% of Canadians go across the US border for all medical treatments.

About 10-15 years ago, citizens of New York and Michigan near the border of Ontario were buying fraudulent Ontario Health cards for $3000 a pop so they could go across the border to receive treatment for expensive procedures and treatments they couldn't afford in the US or their insurance would not cover. The problem was becoming so rampant, the government of Ontario changed the health card to give it security features similar to drivers licenses.

Another question is how many Americans fly outside of the country for treatments which they cannot afford to pay in America?

I don't know the numbers, but people regularly fly to India, South American countries, and others for surgery at a fraction of the cost that they'd pay here in the US.

 

[Agnapostate]

Playing dumb?

Communism in theory and Communism in practice.

Considering the general role of welfare state policies in sustaining macroeconomic stabilization and general efficiency in the capitalist economy, they're ultimately supportive of the arrangement wherein the means of production are privately owned. The "communist" epithet is a mere absurdity used only for the purpose of ideological warfare. It's unfortunately even worse than the typically misapplied "socialist" label too.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Let's check.

If an American and a Canadian both discovered that they had cancer, would the odds be better that the American would rush off to Canada, or that the Canadian would hurry to America.

So much for your argument.

That's a good question. About 0.8% of Canadians go across the US border for all medical treatments.

About 10-15 years ago, citizens of New York and Michigan near the border of Ontario were buying fraudulent Ontario Health cards for $3000 a pop so they could go across the border to receive treatment for expensive procedures and treatments they couldn't afford in the US or their insurance would not cover. The problem was becoming so rampant, the government of Ontario changed the health card to give it security features similar to drivers licenses.

Another question is how many Americans fly outside of the country for treatments which they cannot afford to pay in America?

I don't know the numbers, but people regularly fly to India, South American countries, and others for surgery at a fraction of the cost that they'd pay here in the US.

Or England, Canada, and other parts of the world.

It seems that many folks find it to be a good idea.

Some time back I read a paper about exactly that, and the doctors were well trained, many in the United States, and went back to India and opened hospitals.
In the article, the patient spent the majority of recovery in a luxury hotel, and still came out well ahead financially.

So, I guess it's another reason not to turn healthcare over to the government.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Such an old song, such a tired dance. It was BS then, its BS repackaged now:

YouTube - Ronald Reagan on Universal Healthcare

Let's check.

If an American and a Canadian both discovered that they had cancer, would the odds be better that the American would rush off to Canada, or that the Canadian would hurry to America.

So much for your argument.

My mother tried that argument (not specific to cancer, why narrow it down to that?). Funny thing, later in the same conversation she admitted that she (like many Americans living on fixed incomes) buy their prescription drugs from Canada

I narrowed it down to cancer because there is ample evidence that nowhere else on earth has the survival rate for cancers that the United States has.

I found mixed results when I tried to find same for the various forms of heart disease.

As you have used and anecdotal, let me throw in one:
"Holmes (see video below) was diagnosed with brain cancer, with her vision deteriorating rapidly, but was placed on the treatment waiting lists common to health care in socialist countries. While the average wait time for many procedures can run 18 months or more, Holmes actually made out pretty good by only having to wait 6 months for surgery for her brain tumor.

Rather than wait like a good little subject, she came to the States and got the health care she needed within three weeks. You know, the United States health care system liberals claim is so broken it must be replaced with a government system…you know, kinda like the one in Canada."
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/06/where-can-americans-go-for-treatment-under-govt-health-care/

Has mom seen this:
"If you think all drugs from Canada are cheaper than U.S. drugs, think again. In the United States, generic drugs--roughly half of all prescriptions--are often cheaper than both Canadian brand-name drugs and Canadian generic drugs, according to a study by the Food and Drug Administration."

Or this:
"While some foreign drug manufacturers submit their products to FDA for approval, the imported drugs arriving through the mail, through private express couriers, or by passengers arriving at ports of entry are often unapproved drugs that may not be subject to any reliable regulatory oversight. FDA cannot assure the safety of drugs purchased from such sources."
Study: U.S. Generic Drugs Cost Less Than Canadian Drugs

Also, there was in interesting article in City Journal on the subject:
"He tells me stories of other people whom his British Columbia–based company, Timely Medical Alternatives, has helped—people like the elderly woman who needed vascular surgery for a major artery in her abdomen and was promised prompt care by one of the most senior bureaucrats in the government, who never called back. “Her doctor told her she’s going to die,” Baker remembers. So Timely got her surgery in a couple of days, in Washington State. Then there was the eight-year-old badly in need of a procedure to help correct her deafness. After watching her surgery get bumped three times, her parents called Timely.
The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care by David Gratzer, City Journal Summer 2007

Very, very best wishes to you mom.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Playing dumb?

Communism in theory and Communism in practice.

Considering the general role of welfare state policies in sustaining macroeconomic stabilization and general efficiency in the capitalist economy, they're ultimately supportive of the arrangement wherein the means of production are privately owned. The "communist" epithet is a mere absurdity used only for the purpose of ideological warfare. It's unfortunately even worse than the typically misapplied "socialist" label too.

Pahnyamaya, Tovaritch

 

[sparky]

so lemme get this straight here

50 millon of us can't cut the HC mustard, probably about the same are underinsured and would find out they can't from some catastrphic incident, the highest % of personal bankrupcy is HC realted, we've more poverty than any other 1st world nation

and anyone who points out that the capitalist HC system we have is crumbling with socialist fixes creeping in is a communist?

anyone who consideres the fact that what comes around goes around (meaning we could be next in line) is labeled a childlike liberal?

look, i don't know what you people consider the Amercan ideology, but i would think it's that everyone gets a fair shot at the brass ring here

when any system in any country moves the goal posts enough so the upper echelon literally holds the masses economic hostage, and the middle class sucks what does it matter what form of governance it has?

it sucks to live there just the same....

 

[PoliticalChic]

so lemme get this straight here

50 millon of us can't cut the hc mustard, probably about the same are underinsured and would find out they can't from some catastrphic incident, the highest % of personal bankrupcy is hc realted, we've more poverty than any other 1st world nation

and anyone who points out that the capitalist hc system we have is crumbling with socialist fixes creeping in is a communist?

anyone who consideres the fact that what comes around goes around (meaning we could be next in line) is labeled a childlike liberal?

Look, i don't know what you people consider the amercan ideology, but i would think it's that everyone gets a fair shot at the brass ring here

when any system in any country moves the goal posts enough so the upper echelon literally holds the masses economic hostage, and the middle class sucks what does it matter what form of governance it has?

It sucks to live there just the same....

welcome-to-our-country, borat!

 

[Political Junky]

Let's check.

If an American and a Canadian both discovered that they had cancer, would the odds be better that the American would rush off to Canada, or that the Canadian would hurry to America.

So much for your argument.

My mother tried that argument (not specific to cancer, why narrow it down to that?). Funny thing, later in the same conversation she admitted that she (like many Americans living on fixed incomes) buy their prescription drugs from Canada

I narrowed it down to cancer because there is ample evidence that nowhere else on earth has the survival rate for cancers that the United States has.

I found mixed results when I tried to find same for the various forms of heart disease.

As you have used and anecdotal, let me throw in one:
"Holmes (see video below) was diagnosed with brain cancer, with her vision deteriorating rapidly, but was placed on the treatment waiting lists common to health care in socialist countries. While the average wait time for many procedures can run 18 months or more, Holmes actually made out pretty good by only having to wait 6 months for surgery for her brain tumor.

Rather than wait like a good little subject, she came to the States and got the health care she needed within three weeks. You know, the United States health care system liberals claim is so broken it must be replaced with a government system…you know, kinda like the one in Canada."
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/06/where-can-americans-go-for-treatment-under-govt-health-care/

Has mom seen this:
"If you think all drugs from Canada are cheaper than U.S. drugs, think again. In the United States, generic drugs--roughly half of all prescriptions--are often cheaper than both Canadian brand-name drugs and Canadian generic drugs, according to a study by the Food and Drug Administration."

Or this:
"While some foreign drug manufacturers submit their products to FDA for approval, the imported drugs arriving through the mail, through private express couriers, or by passengers arriving at ports of entry are often unapproved drugs that may not be subject to any reliable regulatory oversight. FDA cannot assure the safety of drugs purchased from such sources."
Study: U.S. Generic Drugs Cost Less Than Canadian Drugs

Also, there was in interesting article in City Journal on the subject:
"He tells me stories of other people whom his British Columbia–based company, Timely Medical Alternatives, has helped—people like the elderly woman who needed vascular surgery for a major artery in her abdomen and was promised prompt care by one of the most senior bureaucrats in the government, who never called back. “Her doctor told her she’s going to die,” Baker remembers. So Timely got her surgery in a couple of days, in Washington State. Then there was the eight-year-old badly in need of a procedure to help correct her deafness. After watching her surgery get bumped three times, her parents called Timely.
The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care by David Gratzer, City Journal Summer 2007

Very, very best wishes to you mom.

Gratzer is a nutjob. He was made to look like a fool at a House hearing recently. He got very defensive.