Zone1 "The more I look at the Universe, the less convinced I am that there is something benevolent going on."

[Dante]

"There was a philosopher commenting on Miracles (and I'm going to mangle the quote) but he said something like - Miracles are so unlikely, bordering on Impossible, that if you do encounter something that you cannot explain, not only from your own base of knowledge, but is unexplainable given any base of knowledge yet acquired on Earth, it's more likely that you simply discovered a new law of physics, than that there is a Divine miracle that was performed in front of you."

asked: Do you believe in God, Creator?

"The more I look at the Universe, the less convinced I am that there is something benevolent going on."

"If your concept of a Creator is someone who's all powerful and all good, that's not an uncommon pairing of powers that you might describe to a Creator, all powerful and all good and I look at disasters that afflict Earth and life on Earth; volcanoes, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, disease, pestilence, congenital birth defects -- you look at this list of ways that life is made miserable on Earth by natural causes, and I just ask - how do you deal with that."

"So philosophers rose up and said, if there is a God God is either not all powerful or not all good."

"I have no problems if as we probe the origins of things we bump up into the bearded man, if that shows up we're good to go okay not a problem there's just no evidence of it, and this is why religions are called faiths collectively, because you believe something in the absence of evidence. That's what it is that's why it's called Faith otherwise we would call all religions evidence, but we don't for exactly that reason, so I I'm I'm given what everyone describes to be the properties that would be expressed by an all powerful being in the gods that they worship I look for that in the universe and I don't find it."




I'm not sure how somebody could attack what Neil is saying here. I can see people of faith disagreeing, using arguments based on beliefs, on individual faith vs science. But I can't see them arguing against what he is saying.

People like are not a threat to people who desire faith over science. I know, because he or people like him have never changed my mind or convinced me that I am in error. They just serve up an informed and coherent set of arguments that speak to what I've come to know.

 

[Donald H]

I would approach the debate in a different way, but that would have to be a debate against the Christians' concept of a god that they try to promote from their bibles.

It's simply too ridiculous to be true, due to their beliefs have become so outdated as compared to modern science.

For one example only which should put the whole question to bed:

In the year 1900 it could be argued that a man could live in the belly of a big fish. (a whale)

And so any revised edition of their bible is impossible due to that being the owning up to the fact that it was necessary.

And so, all we need for this discussion is a brave Christian who will give us their 'is not, is nots, etc. that their churches have provided them with for the occasion!

Doesn't Neil just complicate the question when that's really not necessary?

 

[Donald H]

Fwiw, a non-Christian could present a debate on their being a god that would be much more difficult to disprove. Then Neil's talking points would be needed. The Christian god of the bibles doesn't make the cut!

 

[Manonthestreet]

Funny how things are moving apace according to prophecy.

 

[Dante]

I would approach the debate in a different way, but that would have to be a debate against the Christians' concept of a god that they try to promote from their bibles.

It's simply too ridiculous to be true, due to their beliefs have become so outdated as compared to modern science.

For one example only which should put the whole question to bed:

In the year 1900 it could be argued that a man could live in the belly of a big fish. (a whale)

And so any revised edition of their bible is impossible due to that being the owning up to the fact that it was necessary.

And so, all we need for this discussion is a brave Christian who will give us their 'is not, is nots, etc. that their churches have provided them with for the occasion!

Doesn't Neil just complicate the question when that's really not necessary?

But Neil is not debating here.

 

[Dante]

2:26
"A thousand years ago the intellectual center of the world was Baghdad. Baghdad. Europe was busy disemboweling Heretics at the time. Baghdad was open to all thought at the time, between AD 800 and 1100 around there. If you look at the advances that unfolded in that period in that location, it includes the invention of algebra. Algebra is an Arabic word. Algorithm is an Arabic word. Two thirds of the stars in the night sky that have names, have Arabic names. How does that happen just what where did the naming rights come from?"

 

[MarcATL]

My simple question is, how are we earthlings so lucky to survive w/o being blown to bits by an asteroid or any of the millions of things that can go wrong and destroy the entire earth in no time flat?

That's according to the science that DeGrasse subscribes to that is.

How are we this lucky?

 

[Cougarbear]

"There was a philosopher commenting on Miracles (and I'm going to mangle the quote) but he said something like - Miracles are so unlikely, bordering on Impossible, that if you do encounter something that you cannot explain, not only from your own base of knowledge, but is unexplainable given any base of knowledge yet acquired on Earth, it's more likely that you simply discovered a new law of physics, than that there is a Divine miracle that was performed in front of you."

asked: Do you believe in God, Creator?

"The more I look at the Universe, the less convinced I am that there is something benevolent going on."

"If your concept of a Creator is someone who's all powerful and all good, that's not an uncommon pairing of powers that you might describe to a Creator, all powerful and all good and I look at disasters that afflict Earth and life on Earth; volcanoes, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, disease, pestilence, congenital birth defects -- you look at this list of ways that life is made miserable on Earth by natural causes, and I just ask - how do you deal with that."

"So philosophers rose up and said, if there is a God God is either not all powerful or not all good."

"I have no problems if as we probe the origins of things we bump up into the bearded man, if that shows up we're good to go okay not a problem there's just no evidence of it, and this is why religions are called faiths collectively, because you believe something in the absence of evidence. That's what it is that's why it's called Faith otherwise we would call all religions evidence, but we don't for exactly that reason, so I I'm I'm given what everyone describes to be the properties that would be expressed by an all powerful being in the gods that they worship I look for that in the universe and I don't find it."




I'm not sure how somebody could attack what Neil is saying here. I can see people of faith disagreeing, using arguments based on beliefs, on individual faith vs science. But I can't see them arguing against what he is saying.

People like are not a threat to people who desire faith over science. I know, because he or people like him have never changed my mind or convinced me that I am in error. They just serve up an informed and coherent set of arguments that speak to what I've come to know.

God doesn’t need to be explained. See, what is missing is a lot of information that isn’t included in the Bible we have. You are making a hard fast conclusion when you have not a hundredth of the information the Bible doesn’t have. Some of us have more that actually agrees with science. But, you and Christians don’t want to hear.

 

[Dante]

God doesn’t need to be explained. See, what is missing is a lot of information that isn’t included in the Bible we have. You are making a hard fast conclusion when you have not a hundredth of the information the Bible doesn’t have. Some of us have more that actually agrees with science. But, you and Christians don’t want to hear.

Here's the thing: "God?"

 

[Cougarbear]

Here's the thing: "God?"

He’s the only thing that makes sense. Nothing cannot creat something. Nothing ever could. Aside from that, your atheist science has not ever give a purpose for our earth nor our universe. Why is it here and why are we here?

 

[ding]

"There was a philosopher commenting on Miracles (and I'm going to mangle the quote) but he said something like - Miracles are so unlikely, bordering on Impossible, that if you do encounter something that you cannot explain, not only from your own base of knowledge, but is unexplainable given any base of knowledge yet acquired on Earth, it's more likely that you simply discovered a new law of physics, than that there is a Divine miracle that was performed in front of you."

asked: Do you believe in God, Creator?

"The more I look at the Universe, the less convinced I am that there is something benevolent going on."

"If your concept of a Creator is someone who's all powerful and all good, that's not an uncommon pairing of powers that you might describe to a Creator, all powerful and all good and I look at disasters that afflict Earth and life on Earth; volcanoes, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, disease, pestilence, congenital birth defects -- you look at this list of ways that life is made miserable on Earth by natural causes, and I just ask - how do you deal with that."

"So philosophers rose up and said, if there is a God God is either not all powerful or not all good."

"I have no problems if as we probe the origins of things we bump up into the bearded man, if that shows up we're good to go okay not a problem there's just no evidence of it, and this is why religions are called faiths collectively, because you believe something in the absence of evidence. That's what it is that's why it's called Faith otherwise we would call all religions evidence, but we don't for exactly that reason, so I I'm I'm given what everyone describes to be the properties that would be expressed by an all powerful being in the gods that they worship I look for that in the universe and I don't find it."




I'm not sure how somebody could attack what Neil is saying here. I can see people of faith disagreeing, using arguments based on beliefs, on individual faith vs science. But I can't see them arguing against what he is saying.

People like are not a threat to people who desire faith over science. I know, because he or people like him have never changed my mind or convinced me that I am in error. They just serve up an informed and coherent set of arguments that speak to what I've come to know.

Many people misunderstand Pascal's wagers. But what Pascal was saying with his wager was that the benefit of faith in a higher power makes it worth it to believe in a higher power even if there wasn't one.

According to the principle of natural selection, if faith in a higher power didn't provide a functional advantage over no faith, it would have disappeared long ago.

Both of are saying the same thing.

I've walked both paths. I know what's what.

 

[Cougarbear]

Many people misunderstand Pascal's wagers. But what Pascal was saying with his wager was that the benefit of faith in a higher power makes it worth it to believe in a higher power even if there wasn't one.

According to the principle of natural selection, if faith in a higher power didn't provide a functional advantage over no faith, it would have disappeared long ago.

Both of are saying the same thing.

I've walked both paths. I know what's what.

If there was no purpose for the universe, the earth and mankind, they would not exist.

 

[ding]

"There was a philosopher commenting on Miracles (and I'm going to mangle the quote) but he said something like - Miracles are so unlikely, bordering on Impossible, that if you do encounter something that you cannot explain, not only from your own base of knowledge, but is unexplainable given any base of knowledge yet acquired on Earth, it's more likely that you simply discovered a new law of physics, than that there is a Divine miracle that was performed in front of you."

asked: Do you believe in God, Creator?

"The more I look at the Universe, the less convinced I am that there is something benevolent going on."

"If your concept of a Creator is someone who's all powerful and all good, that's not an uncommon pairing of powers that you might describe to a Creator, all powerful and all good and I look at disasters that afflict Earth and life on Earth; volcanoes, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, disease, pestilence, congenital birth defects -- you look at this list of ways that life is made miserable on Earth by natural causes, and I just ask - how do you deal with that."

"So philosophers rose up and said, if there is a God God is either not all powerful or not all good."

"I have no problems if as we probe the origins of things we bump up into the bearded man, if that shows up we're good to go okay not a problem there's just no evidence of it, and this is why religions are called faiths collectively, because you believe something in the absence of evidence. That's what it is that's why it's called Faith otherwise we would call all religions evidence, but we don't for exactly that reason, so I I'm I'm given what everyone describes to be the properties that would be expressed by an all powerful being in the gods that they worship I look for that in the universe and I don't find it."




I'm not sure how somebody could attack what Neil is saying here. I can see people of faith disagreeing, using arguments based on beliefs, on individual faith vs science. But I can't see them arguing against what he is saying.

People like are not a threat to people who desire faith over science. I know, because he or people like him have never changed my mind or convinced me that I am in error. They just serve up an informed and coherent set of arguments that speak to what I've come to know.

Seems like a trojan horse argument to me. God can't exist because God is a meanie.

 

[Dante]

Seems like a trojan horse argument to me. God can't exist because God is a meanie.

If that's all you got out of it then yeah. But reading with blinders on can warp reality.

 

[Dante]

If there was no purpose for the universe, the earth and mankind, they would not exist.

What is the purpose of a rock, of disease?

 

[Dante]

My simple question is, how are we earthlings so lucky to survive w/o being blown to bits by an asteroid or any of the millions of things that can go wrong and destroy the entire earth in no time flat?

That's according to the science that DeGrasse subscribes to that is.

How are we this lucky?

May as well subscribe to "There is no such thing as coincidences."

 

[Dante]

God doesn’t need to be explained.

and there we have it

 

[MarcATL]

May as well subscribe to "There is no such thing as coincidences."

How long do we got before we're toast?

 

[Dante]

He’s the only thing that makes sense.

Really? That makes sense? Maybe thousands of years ago, before we knew what we now know, which is still not much in the great scheme of things.

 

[Dante]

Many people misunderstand Pascal's wagers. But what Pascal was saying with his wager was that the benefit of faith in a higher power makes it worth it to believe in a higher power even if there wasn't one.

According to the principle of natural selection, if faith in a higher power didn't provide a functional advantage over no faith, it would have disappeared long ago.

Both of are saying the same thing.

I've walked both paths. I know what's what.

Hmm...

Depending what the faith dictates, doesn't it? Human sacrifice?