The Morality Of Murder

[Diuretic]

Ayer was much worse than Rudolf. Eric killed people, but Ayers was more ambitious he was aiding in the enslavement of the human race. We were engaged in a life and death struggle with communism and Ayer was a terrorist for the other side. I remember when the US was a fascist state that should be burned to ground so that something better could be built. Do you remember when killing the pigs was an act of justice?

The thing about Ayers and Obama is the evidence we have indicates that Obama is morally akin to Ayers. Just because Ayers is not bombing now does not doesn’t mean that he is any less an enemy of freedom.

Hello, communism isn't about enslavement.

 

[editec]

Ayer was much worse than Rudolf. Eric killed people, but Ayers was more ambitious he was aiding in the enslavement of the human race.

Enslavement of the human race?

That human race he was pissed about being bombed was Viet Nam.

Given that we lost that war against the Viet Namanese people, but now Viet Nam is a most favored trading partner, I'd have to suggest that you truly do not understand what you're talking about as it regards the politic of that time.

Or are you suggesting that our government now trades with the slavers running Viet Nam?

 

[PeterS]

In other words is it morally right to kill people in the defense of freedom?

Can a society that is moral be free? Here is the question: is it moral for society to control the body of one person in order to save the life of another? If the answer is yes then a society that is moral is not free...

 

[editec]

Freedom and society are mutually exclusive.

Laws, even just laws, are an infringement on freedom.

I am of the opinion the reason we were all indoctinated into thinking ourselves living in the land of the free and home of the brave is because we are enslaved, and the truly brave are generally considered criminals by people who are self regulating slaves.

 

[PeterS]

Freedom and society are mutually exclusive.

Laws, even just laws, are an infringement on freedom.

I am of the opinion the reason we were all indoctinated into thinking ourselves living in the land of the free and home of the brave is because we are enslaved, and the truly brave are generally considered criminals by people who are self regulating slaves.

So freedom can only exist in a state of anarchy? Humm...

 

[Diuretic]

Freedom and society are mutually exclusive.

Laws, even just laws, are an infringement on freedom.

I am of the opinion the reason we were all indoctinated into thinking ourselves living in the land of the free and home of the brave is because we are enslaved, and the truly brave are generally considered criminals by people who are self regulating slaves.

Let's play a word game. We'll call it "freedom and..."

Freedom and starvation.
Freedom and dead from lack of medical care.
Freedom and killed by someone who wanted our stuff.
Freedom and killed by a wild animal.
Freedom and died of thirst.
Freedom and died of exposure.
Freedom and died of boredom because of no internet.

There's nothing wrong with society. I do feel for you as you live in a kleptocracy but, although it's not your fault, it's bad luck that your society has been taken over by thieves. You really should have been paying attention.

Anyway, society is the best form of living for humans. We're naturally social animals, just ask Aristotle.

 

[Diuretic]

So freedom can only exist in a state of anarchy? Humm...

I'm glad you mentioned that! Anarchy is actually the aim of humanity. The perfect society indeed.

 

[PeterS]

Ayer was much worse than Rudolf. Eric killed people, but Ayers was more ambitious he was aiding in the enslavement of the human race. We were engaged in a life and death struggle with communism and Ayer was a terrorist for the other side. I remember when the US was a fascist state that should be burned to ground so that something better could be built. Do you remember when killing the pigs was an act of justice?

The thing about Ayers and Obama is the evidence we have indicates that Obama is morally akin to Ayers. Just because Ayers is not bombing now does not doesn’t mean that he is any less an enemy of freedom.

Rudolf killed because government would not control the body of women. If your position is that Ayers sought to use government for the purpose of slavery how are the two [Rudolf and Ayers] any different at all?

 

[PeterS]

I'm glad you mentioned that! Anarchy is actually the aim of humanity. The perfect society indeed.

Both the radical left and the reactionary right seek anarchy. Are the two positions the same?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Was Scooter Libby a domestic terrorists and traitor when he released the names of a Covert CIA Agent which resulted in the closing down of an active on-going CIA Operation?

His sentence was communted. Was he guilty?

He never did what you claim he did. In fact he was never even charged with doing it. The person that released the name was Armitage. You could at least get your facts straight.

 

[Diuretic]

Both the radical left and the reactionary right seek anarchy. Are the two positions the same?

I wish I knew, I really do. But I just had an idea thinking about that question.

I actually suspect the radical left and the reactionary right don't want anarchism. I always get the feeling that at the two extremes of the spectrum that they're all about total control. My response is usually, fuck off and leave me alone. I hate controllers.

Anarchism is anathema to the controllers. I think the people who really understand anarchism are the ones who have no time at all for conventional politics such as we all suffer under in developed nations.

 

[editec]

So freedom can only exist in a state of anarchy? Humm...

Not even then, probably.

Living in continuous fear of future enslavement isn't exactly freedom, either is it?

Total Individual freedom can really only exist in total solitude.

The moment tw people find any modus vivendi, they have agreed to limit their freedom.

Robinson Crusoe was only completely free until Friday showed up.

I'm free..
Free fallin'

That song is one hell of a lot deeper than just a song about lost love, methinks.​

 

[Diuretic]

And then there's freedom from. Cheer up, it's got two sides!

Freedom from starvation.
Freedom from disease (well relatively anyway)
Freedom from savage beasts ripping you apart as you're toddling along in the undergrowth (just stay out of the subway late at night).
Freedom from marauding tribes (cos your maurauding tribe will kick the other marauding tribes' arses but you are peaceful so all is well).
Freedom from privation because if it hits the fan for you someone else wil be there to help.

And lastly, freedom from boredom cos Al Gore invented the internet so you could log into USMB and be royally entertained at no cost

 

[editec]

Let's play a word game. We'll call it "freedom and..."

Freedom and starvation.
Freedom and dead from lack of medical care.
Freedom and killed by someone who wanted our stuff.
Freedom and killed by a wild animal.
Freedom and died of thirst.
Freedom and died of exposure.
Freedom and died of boredom because of no internet.

There's nothing wrong with society. I do feel for you as you live in a kleptocracy but, although it's not your fault, it's bad luck that your society has been taken over by thieves. You really should have been paying attention.

Anyway, society is the best form of living for humans. We're naturally social animals, just ask Aristotle.

Exactly.

Mankind is a SOCIAL SPECIES.

At least part of the problem this society is currently having is that we have been telling ourselves that a sane society is ALL about the rights of the individual.

Now that completely nuts, obviously since we are a nation of laws, and one hell of a lot of laws, and we have the prison populations to prove it.

We used to, in my opinion, have a fairly rational approach to indisidual freedoms and the state, but the master class has been foisting a lie on us for decades now, that FREEDOM means the rights of corporations to be unregulated while the individuals in this society are some of the heavily personally regualted people on earth.

It's an interesting juxtoposition of conflicting realities, but it's one that many people (mostly on the right) don't really seem to notice.

 

[wayne]

Enslavement of the human race?

That human race he was pissed about being bombed was Viet Nam.

Given that we lost that war against the Viet Namanese people, but now Viet Nam is a most favored trading partner, I'd have to suggest that you truly do not understand what you're talking about as it regards the politic of that time.

Or are you suggesting that our government now trades with the slavers running Viet Nam?

There is only one true communist country left in the world and that is North Korea.

 

[Diuretic]

Exactly.

Mankind is a SOCIAL SPECIES.

At least part of the problem this society is currently having is that we have been telling ourselves that a sane society is ALL about the rights of the individual.

Now that completely nuts, obviously since we are a nation of laws, and one hell of a lot of laws, and we have the prison populations to prove it.

We used to, in my opinion, have a fairly rational approach to indisidual freedoms and the state, but the master class has been foisting a lie on us for decades now, that FREEDOM means the rights of corporations to be unregulated while the individuals in this society are some of the heavily personally regualted people on earth.

It's an interesting juxtoposition of conflicting realities, but it's one that many people (mostly on the right) don't really seem to notice.

You're exactly right. It was a pretty calculated move and it worked brilliantly.

I mean, look at the trash that people write here about universal health care. They've been conned, poor bastards. I does me best to try and point it out but frankly they can live with it if all they can come up with is a spray about "soclaised medicine." Kool Aid? Forget about drinking it, it's in their veins. "False consciousness" doesn't even begin to explain it. I reckon it's anal implants - as in head up arse.

 

[Diuretic]

There is only one true communist country left in the world and that is North Korea.

Take your point Wayne but I prefer "Stalinist totalitarian state" and a nightmare that makes Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty-Four" look like "Utopia".

 

[wayne]

Take your point Wayne but I prefer "Stalinist totalitarian state" and a nightmare that makes Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty-Four" look like "Utopia".

Why would anyone prefer hell? Have you had to live in a constant state of fear? I have and I will tell you that death is preferable.

 

[Diuretic]

Why would anyone prefer hell? Have you had to live in a constant state of fear? I have and I will tell you that death is preferable.

I wouldn't like to live in N. Korea, flew near it once (normal flight) at night - no lights on the ground, whereas S. Korea was well lit up.

But N. Korea isn't the desirable model. And communism isn't supposed to be totalitarian.

 

[wayne]

I wouldn't like to live in N. Korea, flew near it once (normal flight) at night - no lights on the ground, whereas S. Korea was well lit up.

But N. Korea isn't the desirable model. And communism isn't supposed to be totalitarian.

But, totalitarian is the only way it will work. Don’t believe the propaganda: People do not work for the glory of work; they work to make a living. And, any system that over looks that basic fact is doomed to eventually fail.