The Misunderstood Supremacy Clause

Wrong. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land.

The Supremacy clause is designed to note that when state laws conflict with federal laws on the matter so legislated, the federal law governs. However, if the federal law is out of bounds, itself, the supremacy clause doesn’t save it.

Yes Constitution was written to create a very specific government (or one with multiple specific purposes).

The Constitution is not supreme in those areas not enumerated (or so Madison wrote.....we certainly have not behaved that way).

And, in general, I agree with your description of the Supremacy Clause.
 
Yes Constitution was written to create a very specific government (or one with multiple specific purposes).

The Constitution is not supreme in those areas not enumerated (or so Madison wrote.....we certainly have not behaved that way).

And, in general, I agree with your description of the Supremacy Clause.
As I agree with you that we are not behaving in conformity with the commands and the restrictions of the Constitution.
 
Wrong.

This fails as a strawman fallacy, no one maintains the Article VI of the Constitution gives Congress ‘carte blanche.’

Acts of Congress and rulings by Federal courts are the supreme law of the land, state and local laws and the rulings of state courts are subordinate to Federal laws and court rulings (see Cooper v. Aaron (1958)).

No, I am not wrong.

First, I quoted the clause word for word. The same for Federalist 45.

How they work together, in theory, is well understood.

This is from an article on the destructive legacy of McCulloch:

In McCulloch, Marshall accurately predicted that “the question respecting the extent of the powers actually granted [by the Constitution], is perpetually arising, and will probably continue to arise, as long as our system of government shall exist.”

And here the same article offers an opinion:

Andrew Jackson understood that a mere Supreme Court opinion is not a good reason to treat that question as closed. Unfortunately, his sense of responsibility to the Constitution went very much out of fashion. Too many Presidents and too many legislators came to believe that the Constitution allows Congress to do anything that a very indulgent Supreme Court will countenance.


To often, I have seen people make the same claim (on this board and people I know personally).
 
Yes, that is correct.

In this case, it was Madison himself who penned #45 and as he was the most familiar with the rationale and reasoning behind the Constitution, he would best be able to speak on particular topics.
Madison wrote a reply to a friend where he said look to the ratifiers for meanings , and not to the clerks. (Not his exact words ) lol
 
Your problem is with the wrong phrase in the constitution. The issue here is that the general welfare clause and the commerce clause have been reinterpreted by the courts to mean anything whatsoever. Creating and consuming a product 100 percent on your own land and never engaging in ANY activity with another person has been interpreted as being covered under commerce.

When you interpret words like commerce and, even worse, general welfare that loosely there just is no area of life that the feds are not granted power over.
 
Wrong.

This fails as a strawman fallacy, no one maintains the Article VI of the Constitution gives Congress ‘carte blanche.’

Acts of Congress and rulings by Federal courts are the supreme law of the land, state and local laws and the rulings of state courts are subordinate to Federal laws and court rulings (see Cooper v. Aaron (1958)).

Wrong. There was a recent thread here where one poster, I don't remember his name, insisted that any law the Congress passed and the President signed, is automatically constitutional. I think very few people here understand the Constitution at all, and especially the Supremacy Clause.

Thank you to the OP for demonstrating great understanding on this.
 
No need to be so crass.

It would be great if we make the discussion educational.
There are those among us who know that you're telling it straight but they will lie here and elsewhere because the truth doesn't fit their agenda. You're doing a great job on the topic of the thread but your goals may be a bit lofty - more than your audience can assimilate.
 
Your problem is with the wrong phrase in the constitution. The issue here is that the general welfare clause and the commerce clause have been reinterpreted by the courts to mean anything whatsoever. Creating and consuming a product 100 percent on your own land and never engaging in ANY activity with another person has been interpreted as being covered under commerce.

When you interpret words like commerce and, even worse, general welfare that loosely there just is no area of life that the feds are not granted power over.

I recently posted writings from both Hamilton and Madison on the general welfare clause. It was intended as a limitation of power, not a grant of power. When the government taxes, borrows, spends, or exercises any of the other enumerated powers, the general welfare clause says that whatever they do must be to the benefit (welfare) of the nation generally rather than to a specific geographic, political, or other entity. No more, no less than that.
 
I recently posted writings from both Hamilton and Madison on the general welfare clause. It was intended as a limitation of power, not a grant of power. When the government taxes, borrows, spends, or exercises any of the other enumerated powers, the general welfare clause says that whatever they do must be to the benefit (welfare) of the nation generally rather than to a specific geographic, political, or other entity. No more, no less than that.
If it was only taken that way in modern governance.

I am hard pressed to find something I cannot place under general welfare in the way the court sees the clause now. We have been reduced to hiding behind those very few enumerated rights outlined in the BoR and the added amendments rather than treating the constitution as a list of enumerated powers.
 
Wrong. There was a recent thread here where one poster, I don't remember his name, insisted that any law the Congress passed and the President signed, is automatically constitutional. I think very few people here understand the Constitution at all, and especially the Supremacy Clause.

Thank you to the OP for demonstrating great understanding on this.

And that is my rub with "Conservatives".

There is no messaging there.

If a law is passed out of the federal government.....and held to be constitutional.....then the Supremacy Clause applies.

The problem lies with what is being held to be constitutional. Far to much of what our Federal Government does is outside of A1S8 of the constitution. Despite Douglas' ability to find rights emanating from penumbras of whatever.....that isn't how things were designed.

Now, a good discussion of the 9th Amendment should be had (can a state create or honor certain rights that other states don't.....or is this a reference to the amendment process ?)....but regardless.

Conservatives have not kept the education up and the conversation going.

Consequently, the federal government has spilled over it's boundaries and like the blob that it is.....has repeatedly crushed our independence.
 
Wrong. There was a recent thread here where one poster, I don't remember his name, insisted that any law the Congress passed and the President signed, is automatically constitutional.
That's Clayton.
Constitutiomal until overturned, state or federal law.
Now, ask him why he believes the most recent abortion law out of TX is constitutional.
 
If you follow the Hamiltonian view - which most leftists do - Congress only need the general welfare clause and the elastic clause.
If you follow the M14 Shooter view, which only idiots do, then all Congress needs is to pass any law and get some court to say it's OK and they can take any right they wish.
 
That's Clayton.
Constitutiomal until overturned, state or federal law.
Now, ask him why he believes the most recent abortion law out of TX is constitutional.
You believe the same thing. You believe that just because the Court said gun bans are legal that they're constitutional.
 
If you follow the M14 Shooter view, which only idiots do, then all Congress needs is to pass any law and get some court to say it's OK and they can take any right they wish.

Dude, I think you are off on this one. M14 Shooter is pretty conservative from what I can tell. He is just making an observation, which, unfortunately, is all to true.

The left worships Washington D.C. and anything they pass might as well be written in the bible.

If congress never passed another law, I don't think I'd be disappointed.
 

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