*The Mayflower Compact*

[Grumblenuts]

1. So the Indians are savages to you?
2. Animals even?

Clear questions left noticeably unaddressed..
1. The native Indians remain just people too.
2. We are all just animals. Savage at times. Inherently so.
The Indians are truly admirable though. Living here relatively peacefully and sustainably for thousands of years. The industrialized will be lucky to survive half as long. We may conquer immortality but will soon blast each other all to hell regardless.

 

[chesswarsnow]

It is an open forum so I will post as I please. Your precepts and presumptions are totally of your own creation from your own ignorance and very telling about your mind being being full of gutter trash.

Again, only God had ownership until the land was settled and a government was established. If the Indians tribes between themselves had all had a government structure between themselves setup they would have been formidable for the Pilgrims but the fact is they didn't.

Sorry bout that,

1. So in your spacious mind, until peoples have white mans government controlling the land, the land only belongs to God.
2. So very white of you.
3. You have the understanding of a toad.
4. I have explained to everyone how these people mattered, then and now.
5. They still self govern like they always have, now with a white mans oversight.
6. Its not fair what has taken place, and it will always haunt those who did it.
7. History is history, even if you try to hide the truth, the truth comes out, and stares back at you in ridicule.
8. Why can't you or others see this?
9. There may be a big pole beam stuck in your eye.
10. I can't remove this beam only God can, same God who owned the land before the white man owned it.
11. Make things right with this land of the Indians, and then maybe God will remove this beam in your eyes.
12. Why you continue to run your head in my meat grinder is a mystery, but good luck.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[chesswarsnow]

Clear questions left noticeably unaddressed..
1. The native Indians remain just people too.
2. We are all just animals. Savage at times. Inherently so.
The Indians are truly admirable though. Living here relatively peacefully and sustainably for thousands of years. The industrialized will be lucky to survive half as long. We may conquer immortality but will soon blast each other all to hell regardless.

Sorry bout that,

1. Old Grumblenuts, very well thought out response and clever user name.
2. Just a people eh?
3. Animals, gophers, etc.
4. So what are you a deer?
5. The Indians will abide, and continue, for generations.
6. Historically the Indians held, War Parties, and Danced War Dances, and fought each other for sport.
7. Kinda like we have football.
8. But we are civilized and don't kill each other for sport.
9. Romans did.
10. Didn't our civilizations come from Rome?
11. The white mans set of laws we used for ions.
12. Makes you wonder who was right.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[The Irish Ram]

Sorry bout that,

*Fits Perfectly*
1. How do you buy land from a man who doesn't understand selling apiece of land?
2. 25 cents an acre isn't buying, its token transfer of deed.
2. (a) Likely gave $150.00 for 6000 acres.
3. Greed.
4. Coveting.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Just hate the truth don't you. Some white people show up in a ship and buy some land from the Indians and you intend to vilify them, because, you know, white. Sadly, the Indian my grandfather bought land from was butchered. By Indians.

Regards,
The Truth.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Sorry bout that,

1. Old Grumblenuts, very well thought out response and clever user name.
2. Just a people eh?
3. Animals, gophers, etc.
4. So what are you a deer?
5. The Indians will abide, and continue, for generations.
6. Historically the Indians held, War Parties, and Danced War Dances, and fought each other for sport.
7. Kinda like we have football.
8. But we are civilized and don't kill each other for sport.
9. Romans did.
10. Didn't our civilizations come from Rome?
11. The white mans set of laws we used for ions.
12. Makes you wonder who was right.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Thanks.

Sorry about that,

I think you meant "eons." I said and meant "just people", not "Just a people", the distinction being significant. Also, from Rome? I believe humans originated somewhere in Africa then wandered more eastward than north, our original "Natives" likely arriving here from multiple directions over many centuries. One could perhaps trace the origin of "white men" back to Italy or something, I don't know. Don't really care since differentiating people simply because of skin tone is like insisting we're not all animals. No, never! We are plants, dammit!

 

[...]

You are sorely in need of a history lesson.

History lesson?

Do tell.

 

[BreezeWood]

Just hate the truth don't you. Some white people show up in a ship and buy some land from the Indians and you intend to vilify them, because, you know, white. Sadly, the Indian my grandfather bought land from was butchered. By Indians.

Regards,
The Truth.

sadly ... like the rams could hardly care less.

and that's probably because granddaddy gave him free spirits before convincing him to sell his bed ridden, orphaned mother's sole possession and put her on the street to starve to death.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I had 3 on the Mayflower, each paid the Indians for their land. As did most, to avoid conflict...

William Bradford formed very close alliances with the Indian tribes. Squanto and Bradford were as close as brothers.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

History lesson?

Do tell.

You might want to start with William Bradford's diaries.

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. Indians selling lands to non Indians didn't go well with the Indians.
2. Good way to get snuffed out before you could reap a reward from the sell.
3. When an Indian realized they could reap a reward by selling, some tried, they were met with cold hard punishment.
4. White man convinced the Indians they could sell a patch of land, and stuff the cash into their pockets.
5. The Patriot Indians frowned upon that.
6. Those who did died young.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[miketx]

You are sorely in need of a history lesson.

Mental help too.

 

[The Irish Ram]

sadly ... like the rams could hardly care less.

and that's probably because granddaddy gave him free spirits before convincing him to sell his bed ridden, orphaned mother's sole possession and put her on the street to starve to death.

You just can't help yourself can you? Malign even though the truth is right there in the record books.
I present recorded truth, you give us probablies, maybes, coulda, mighta, regurgitated bullshit.

The truth is, the Pilgrims and the Indians exchanged gifts, broke bread and signed a treaty among them that lasted 50 years.
It wasn't until your relatives showed up and started killing the Indians that a problem was created...

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. The Indians were fucked coming and going.
2. Few get a fair shake, even today.
3. Indians are looked down upon in every way.
4. Its a crime how they were dealt with.
5. We have shit shamed ourselves.
6. Thats when you do bad and know not.
7. Biden does it all the time; so there's that.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[The Irish Ram]

8. Were black-slave owners.
9. Were at constant war with their neighbors.
10. Sold their neighbors woman and children as slaves.
11. Sold their own wives and children to other tribes to cover gambling debts.
...

 

[BreezeWood]

You just can't help yourself can you? Malign even though the truth is right there in the record books.
I present recorded truth, you give us probablies, maybes, coulda, mighta, regurgitated bullshit.

The truth is, the Pilgrims and the Indians exchanged gifts, broke bread and signed a treaty among them that lasted 50 years.
It wasn't until your relatives showed up and started killing the Indians that a problem was created...

that's a stretch ram - "Malign even though the truth is right there in the record books."

First Encounters: Native Americans and Christians

Diverse Native American religions and cultures existed before and after the arrival of European colonialists. In the 16th to 17th centuries, Spanish conquistadores and French fur traders were generally more violent to Native Americans than were the Spanish and French missionaries, although few...

pluralism.org

The majority of early colonists did not recognize the deep culture and traditions of Native peoples, nor did they acknowledge the tribes' land rights. The colonists sought to convert the Native people in the New World and strip them of their land.

Many of the colonists saw the new land as a “wilderness” to be settled, not as already inhabited, or as Michael Wigglesworth described it in 1662, “a waste and howling wilderness, where none inhabited but hellish fiends, and brutish men that devils worshipped.”

- - you'll be better served than seeking recorded history for the defense of the early settlers and their christian persuasion.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Here, Let me help you look foolish:

WIKI says:
Holding humans in slavery was not a new concept to indigenous American peoples - in inter-Native American conflict tribes often kept prisoners-of-war, and these captives often replaced slain tribe-members. Intra-indigenous slavery also occurred in the Pacific Northwest and in Alaska, where it persisted until the late-19th century

Regards,
Most of us know the truth

 

[The Irish Ram]

that's a stretch ram - "Malign even though the truth is right there in the record books."

First Encounters: Native Americans and Christians

Diverse Native American religions and cultures existed before and after the arrival of European colonialists. In the 16th to 17th centuries, Spanish conquistadores and French fur traders were generally more violent to Native Americans than were the Spanish and French missionaries, although few...

pluralism.org

The majority of early colonists did not recognize the deep culture and traditions of Native peoples, nor did they acknowledge the tribes' land rights. The colonists sought to convert the Native people in the New World and strip them of their land.

Many of the colonists saw the new land as a “wilderness” to be settled, not as already inhabited, or as Michael Wigglesworth described it in 1662, “a waste and howling wilderness, where none inhabited but hellish fiends, and brutish men that devils worshipped.”

- - you'll be better served than seeking recorded history for the defense of the early settlers and their christian persuasion.

pluralism.org gives you an opinion. I give you recorded fact. The Pilgrims had enough on their plates just trying to survive. War was the last thing they wanted. So they made friends instead. You can try to twist history if you want but the fact is the people on the Mayflower, and the Indians treated each other well.

It was your relatives that came here and killed them and took their land...

 

[BreezeWood]

pluralism.org gives you an opinion. I give you recorded fact. The Pilgrims had enough on their plates just trying to survive. War was the last thing they wanted. So they made friends instead. You can try to twist history if you want but the fact is the people on the Mayflower, and the Indians treated each other well.

It was your relatives that came here and killed them and took their land...

no ram, we've never been 4th century christians and as I already mentioned you will be hard spent proving your case using recorded history that is not written by your granddaddy and village priest ...

 

[bodecea]

I had 3 on the Mayflower, each paid the Indians for their land. As did most, to avoid conflict...

That was the early Pilgrims.....and then the Puritans came along.

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. The who done it is immaterial.
2. The Indians didn't fuck themselves, the white settlers did that for them.
3. Whether it was the original white settlers or those that came later the Indians got fucked and it was the white settlers doing it.
4. Lets not split hairs, the Indians were treated badly, like wild animals that were herded around like wolves, or buffalo being shot in the head.
5. Of course that's part of the story as well.
6. The Indian was a most hated humans for no other reason than they were on the land.
7. The white settlers wanted them off the land so they could have it and develop it the way they wanted too.
8. So they conspired to kill the Indians.
9. Stealing their land.
10. The Mayflower Compact gave them a written paper to make it seem legal and right.
11. Manifest Destiny they called it.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas