The magic of self-pay

[longknife]

An absolutely solution to the stupid mess of Obozocare.

Read this very interesting article @ Grim's Hall: The magic of self-pay Check out to see what your doctor's reaction is when you offer to pay cash for his services. How many will jump at the chance of avoiding all the insurance company BS?

 

[william the wie]

It's already happening. Try Yahoo Finance for a comprehensive list of citations.

 

[longknife]

Media Roundup of Self-Pay Healthcare
Posted on November 15, 2013 by seandparnell

Patients who pay their own way, either because they are uninsured or have a high-deductible health insurance plan, have been popping up in the media more often of late, or so it seems to me at least. I thought regular readers might appreciate seeing what’s being reported, and new readers might also gain something by getting an overview of the choices and considerations self-pay patients have.

Read more @ The Self-Pay Patient | Affordable health care options for the uninsured or those with high deductible insurance.

 

[Moonglow]

I would have liked for the writer to tell us how much a doctors visit was, so I could see how much he pays compared to when I use cash pay.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I've been saying this for years. The way to bring health care costs down in this country is for most people to pay cash for most health services and have a catastrophic insurance policy in case of a serious illness or accident. We'll never bring down the cost of insurance or health care services as long as we're dolling out our responsibility of payment to a third party. The free market needs to be reintroduced to the health care industry because right now it is completely absent from it.

 

[Moonglow]

Doc's say that 40% of their over head is paper pushing.

 

[Zander]

The problem is nobody knows what anything costs.

You have a simple fracture of the third metatarsal on your right foot? How much should that cost? Nobody knows.

The patient (insured) has no idea what it costs, and usually doesn't care. The patient has 2 questions- what is wrong? and "is it covered by my insurance"? The price never enters the equation (other than co-pay or deductibles).

Why don't they know? Because it depends upon how the "Billing" dept codes the service when they submit it to the insurer. ......oye...

 

[Zander]

Loved this part...

On that subject, though, here is the latest thinking from the President's apologists: When he told us we could keep our plans, that was 99% true, and it was shockingly unfair to make a fuss about the tiny, unimportant sense in which that was a lie. The people who aren't getting to keep their plans are an insignificant sliver of the marketplace, most of whom aren't even going to see their premiums go up, so don't believe what you read. Besides, the old plans are terrible; nobody in his right mind would keep them if he were offered something better. But when we ask the President to support bills in Congress to ensure that we'll keep our plans, it turns out that letting us do that would be a dagger at the very heart of Obamacare. If even a minuscule fraction of the market doesn't sign up for the new plans, the entire creaky edifice will crash and burn. And it won't be a few customers, it will be a stampede, because almost everyone will want to keep his old bad plan instead of taking the priceless gift of the wonderful new plans. Also, although the financial harm suffered by this inconsequential backwater of the market, just a few Americans, 15 million tops, is hardly worth mentioning, the fact remains that denying this stupendous influx of revenue to the grand nationwide Obamacare experiment will starve it of its lifeblood and leave the brilliant social experiment in smoking ruins.

 

[HenryBHough]

Too easy to misread the threat title as being yet another Obama biography: The Magic of Self-PITY.

 

[Moonglow]

What I really disagree with docs is that you must pay if you miss your appointment.
The docs don't pay you when they have to miss the appointment.

 

[Flopper]

An absolutely solution to the stupid mess of Obozocare.

Read this very interesting article @ Grim's Hall: The magic of self-pay Check out to see what your doctor's reaction is when you offer to pay cash for his services. How many will jump at the chance of avoiding all the insurance company BS?

I seriously doubt that cash payments to doctors would make a significant difference in the cost of healthcare because:

• Only 21% of our healthcare dollars go to physician/clinical services.
• 44% of the doctors are employees or contracted to hospitals and clinics and are not involved with payments.
• A large percent of most doctor's patients don't have the money available to make a cash payment for their balance.

A few years ago we had an individual insurance plan with a high deductible. I tried offering cash. The best I could do was a discount equal to credit card charges, about 4%. I had a friend that got a $15,000 hospital bill reduced to $5,000 but it took a long time. He had to apply for Medicaid and get rejected, endured a ton of threatening letters, and provide the hospital with income and expense information. Even then it was a fight.

As my father once said, it never hurts to ask for a discount, however I don't see cash payments making any significant dent in the cost of healthcare. Whatever they write off, they'll try to recovery from some else.

 

[Flopper]

What I really disagree with docs is that you must pay if you miss your appointment.
The docs don't pay you when they have to miss the appointment.

I raised that question with my dentist and he immediately wrote off the charge.

 

[william the wie]

What I really disagree with docs is that you must pay if you miss your appointment.
The docs don't pay you when they have to miss the appointment.

I raised that question with my dentist and he immediately wrote off the charge.

It looks like concierge care, a monthly retainer plus a fee, will replace the current system particularly with the marriage tax in Obamacare. By the way if anyone knows of a listed concierge service please PM me with the stock symbol. Thank you.

 

[Flopper]

I've been saying this for years. The way to bring health care costs down in this country is for most people to pay cash for most health services and have a catastrophic insurance policy in case of a serious illness or accident. We'll never bring down the cost of insurance or health care services as long as we're dolling out our responsibility of payment to a third party. The free market needs to be reintroduced to the health care industry because right now it is completely absent from it.

The problem I see in paying cash for services to get a discount is it would be from the billed amount which is much higher than the insurance company contract rates. My primary care doctor bills $150 for an intermediate office visit. My co-payment plus what my insurance company's payment comes to is $80. In other words, my doctor writes off 45% of his bill because of his contract with the insurance company.

 

[dblack]

I've been saying this for years. The way to bring health care costs down in this country is for most people to pay cash for most health services and have a catastrophic insurance policy in case of a serious illness or accident. We'll never bring down the cost of insurance or health care services as long as we're dolling out our responsibility of payment to a third party. The free market needs to be reintroduced to the health care industry because right now it is completely absent from it.

The problem I see in paying cash for services to get a discount is it would be from the billed amount which is much higher than the insurance company contract rates. My primary care doctor bills $150 for an intermediate office visit. My co-payment plus what my insurance company's payment comes to is $80. In other words, my doctor writes off 45% of his bill because of his contract with the insurance company.

The point of paying for cash isn't really to score discounts. It's the effect it has on health care transactions in general. The point is that when you're spending 'real' money for a service, you actually care what it costs, and the people are doing this, the more there will be real market pressure on doctors to offer lower cost services. At present, that kind of pressure is virtually non-existent. Unfortunately, the overriding premise of ACA is that we need even more insurance.

 

[william the wie]

I've been saying this for years. The way to bring health care costs down in this country is for most people to pay cash for most health services and have a catastrophic insurance policy in case of a serious illness or accident. We'll never bring down the cost of insurance or health care services as long as we're dolling out our responsibility of payment to a third party. The free market needs to be reintroduced to the health care industry because right now it is completely absent from it.

The problem I see in paying cash for services to get a discount is it would be from the billed amount which is much higher than the insurance company contract rates. My primary care doctor bills $150 for an intermediate office visit. My co-payment plus what my insurance company's payment comes to is $80. In other words, my doctor writes off 45% of his bill because of his contract with the insurance company.

Actually no. The doctor jacks up his rates to deal insurance rates and discounts so 2/3s of the bill rate is the cost of insurance.

 

[Flopper]

I've been saying this for years. The way to bring health care costs down in this country is for most people to pay cash for most health services and have a catastrophic insurance policy in case of a serious illness or accident. We'll never bring down the cost of insurance or health care services as long as we're dolling out our responsibility of payment to a third party. The free market needs to be reintroduced to the health care industry because right now it is completely absent from it.

The problem I see in paying cash for services to get a discount is it would be from the billed amount which is much higher than the insurance company contract rates. My primary care doctor bills $150 for an intermediate office visit. My co-payment plus what my insurance company's payment comes to is $80. In other words, my doctor writes off 45% of his bill because of his contract with the insurance company.

The point of paying for cash isn't really to score discounts. It's the effect it has on health care transactions in general. The point is that when you're spending 'real' money for a service, you actually care what it costs, and the people are doing this, the more there will be real market pressure on doctors to offer lower cost services. At present, that kind of pressure is virtually non-existent. Unfortunately, the overriding premise of ACA is that we need even more insurance.

I understand your point and it's a good one, however consider the following:

• Insurance deductibles and co-insurance has been increasing since 2009. In a 2013 study of 10,000 insurance plans it was found that the average Co-insurance has increased to 20% with a quarter of the plans having co-insurance up to 40%. Zero deductible plans have all but disappeared. People are paying more to healthcare providers than ever before. The exception of course is people on Medicaid. For them, a 20% or even 10% coinsurance would be counter productive.
  
• Catastrophic insurance will not work for most people because most people live from paycheck to paycheck with practically no savings. They buy the most expensive plan they can afford because they can't manage their money. Their medical costs have to come out of their paycheck. Catastrophic insurance works only for those with adequate financial reserves to cover their deductible and co-insurance and most people just don't have it.

Study: U.S. average coinsurance rate 20 percent, as high as 40 percent - UPI.com