The Judgement and the Defendant in a Court of Law - Judge Engoron v Mr. Trump. The Ruling.

Procrustes Stretched

And you say, "Oh my God, am I here all alone?"
Dec 1, 2008
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Positively 4th Street
A trial has ended. A judgment has been handed down. It is how the American Justice system works. It can be slow moving. It can seem mysterious to those lacking knowledge on how it all works. It is the only system we have. It works. It is fair, but we must remember, Justice is blind. No one person is above the law.

Article quoted:
Across 92 pages, the judge, Arthur F. Engoron, took Mr. Trump to task several times — both for his business practices and his comportment in the courtroom.


There are folksy aphorisms. There are biblical references to sin. There’s Bernie Madoff. And there’s even an 18th-century poet.

A former cabdriver and music teacher, the judge is an unlikely antagonist for Mr. Trump, who has repeatedly denounced him as a Democratic stooge and criticized his family and his law clerk.



Two examples
:

Trump on the Witness Stand

Overall, Donald Trump rarely responded to the questions asked, and he frequently interjected long, irrelevant speeches on issues far beyond the scope of the trial. His refusal to answer the questions directly, or in some cases, at all, severely compromised his credibility.


What Trump Knew and What Trump Did

Donald Trump was aware of many of the key facts underpinning various material fraudulent misstatements in the SFCs: He was aware of having deeded away the right to use Mar-a-Lago as anything other than a social club, and notwithstanding, continued to value it as if it could be used as a single family residence; he was aware that the triplex apartment in which he, a real estate mogul and self-identified expert, resided for decades was not 30,000 square feet, but actually 10,996 square feet; he was aware that he did not control the Vornado partnership interest even though he represented it as “cash”; he was aware that he had permission to build only 500 private residences in Aberdeen, notwithstanding that he represented that he had permission for 2500; and he was aware that 40 Wall Street was operating at a deficit despite proclaiming that it was running a net operating income of $64 million.

As Eric Trump testified, Donald Trump sat at the top of the pyramid of the Trump Organization until 2017. Donald Trump professed to “know more about real estate than other people” and to be “more expert than anybody else.” He repeatedly falsified business records with the intent to defraud.


in passing, from another article
: In response to the ruling, Trump wrote on Truth Social, his social network site, that the penalty amount was “outrageous” and that it was “based on nothing other than having built a GREAT COMPANY.” Clifford S. Robert, an attorney for the two elder Trump sons, called the decision “gross injustice” and said he was confident it would be overturned on appeal.

So, Trump is going with the penalties are only because of a Judge wanting to punish a company for being what Trump says is 'successful'?
 
100 percent political persecution
Legal, not political:

quote: The statute does not require intent to commit fraud or anyone to be harmed by the fraud, and it does not give Trump the inherent right to a jury trial, with legal experts noting to CNN that while civil lawsuits that request monetary damages are entitled to a jury trial, cases seeking other “equitable relief”—meaning penalties that force the defendant to take or refrain from taking some kind of action, rather than just paying money—can be decided by a judge alone, which is more common with 63(12) violations and is the case in this trial.
 
Procrustes Stretched



No victim, equals no fraud.

Please try and stick with the facts.

63(12): The statute does not require intent to commit fraud or anyone to be harmed by the fraud, and it does not give Trump the inherent right to a jury trial, with legal experts noting to CNN that while civil lawsuits that request monetary damages are entitled to a jury trial, cases seeking other “equitable relief”—meaning penalties that force the defendant to take or refrain from taking some kind of action, rather than just paying money—can be decided by a judge alone, which is more common with 63(12) violations and is the case in this trial.
 
Please try and stick with the facts.

63(12): The statute does not require intent to commit fraud or anyone to be harmed by the fraud, and it does not give Trump the inherent right to a jury trial, with legal experts noting to CNN that while civil lawsuits that request monetary damages are entitled to a jury trial, cases seeking other “equitable relief”—meaning penalties that force the defendant to take or refrain from taking some kind of action, rather than just paying money—can be decided by a judge alone, which is more common with 63(12) violations and is the case in this trial.


For fraud to have occurred there must be a VICTIM.

No bank claimed a loss.

It's a purely political, bullshit persecution.
 
For fraud to have occurred there must be a VICTIM.

No bank claimed a loss.

It's a purely political, bullshit persecution.
read the statute: 63(12) - The statute does not require intent to commit fraud or anyone to be harmed by the fraud, and it does not give Trump the inherent right to a jury trial, with legal experts noting to CNN that while civil lawsuits that request monetary damages are entitled to a jury trial, cases seeking other “equitable relief”—meaning penalties that force the defendant to take or refrain from taking some kind of action, rather than just paying money—can be decided by a judge alone, which is more common with 63(12) violations and is the case in this trial.

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It's a legal thing, you people keep trying to make a political thing. Well, run with it in the election season, but in the courts of law -- you lose. Yet again, you people lose in a court of law.

try again westwall
 
read the statute: 63(12) - The statute does not require intent to commit fraud or anyone to be harmed by the fraud, and it does not give Trump the inherent right to a jury trial, with legal experts noting to CNN that while civil lawsuits that request monetary damages are entitled to a jury trial, cases seeking other “equitable relief”—meaning penalties that force the defendant to take or refrain from taking some kind of action, rather than just paying money—can be decided by a judge alone, which is more common with 63(12) violations and is the case in this trial.

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It's a legal thing, you people keep trying to make a political thing. Well, run with it in the election season, but in the courts of law -- you lose. Yet again, you people lose in a court of law.
"Equitable Relief"
 
Trump got sweetheart deals on his loans because he inflated the value of his collateral
I don't think there was evidence that any bank altered it's terms based on his "valuations." I'd be happy to be wrong

Putting the best face on the prosecution of the case is that in a sense we were all defrauded, but I don't think that was the purpose for the law.
 

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